49 réponses à ce sujet

[RenAdaar]

I wonder how the bridge got destroyed?

The qunari maybe? 

[straykat]

That assumes that invention stops counting if what you are inventing uses or is magic.  

 

It mostly does. Invention requires a process. Probably lots of trial and error too, involving all kinds of processes. Sometimes leading to even new inventions.

 

Magic is just conjuring things from the Fade. The inventive stuff seems to be the accidents.. like when hedge mages aren't raised scholastically.

 

I bet the Qunari have better healthcare too, for the same reasons.

[nightscrawl]

It mostly does. Invention requires a process. Probably lots of trial and error too, involving all kinds of processes. Sometimes leading to even new inventions.

 

Magic is just conjuring things from the Fade. The inventive stuff seems to be the accidents.. like when hedge mages aren't raised scholastically.

 

I bet the Qunari have better healthcare too, for the same reasons.

 

I would say that Dorian and Alexius would disagree with your assessment. You don't think there is trial and error and experimentation with magic?

[straykat]

I would say that Dorian and Alexius would disagree with your assessment. You don't think there is trial and error and experimentation with magic?

 

I think there's less of it.. just by virtue of being the "stuff of dreams". And less understanding even of new things like the above. I have my doubts that Alexius knows what he's really doing... on a scientific level, I mean.

 

It's always enough to make things work.. but I'm talking about understanding point A to point B, in full.

 

 

On a sidenote, I hate the Qunari. Just saying. I'm not a fan or anything. I only think that magic has a way of holding a civilization back.

[Illegitimus]

It mostly does. Invention requires a process. Probably lots of trial and error too, involving all kinds of processes. Sometimes leading to even new inventions.

 

Magic is just conjuring things from the Fade. 

 

 

No it isn't.  And the technical discussion that Dorian and Solas have strongly suggests that magic does have processes.  

[straykat]

Yeah, good luck with that. Argue that magic is just like science.

 

I figured my point would be obvious. I honestly don't know where to go from here. I need an understanding of the process myself now.

[nightscrawl]

Solas: I notice you used a nullification enchantment combined with an offensive attack.
Dorian: The nullification disrupts any ambient magic lying about. Things then burn hotter.
Solas: Don't you then waste an inordinate amount of magic overcoming your own nullification?
Dorian: Ah, no. I warp the Veil slightly to effect distance between the spells.
Solas: Of course. Have you considering snapping the Veil-warp to enhance the relative energy?
Dorian: Like cracking a whip? Yes, tried it once. Made my teeth taste funny.

 

 

No one is really arguing that "magic is just like science." However, the first two definitions of "science" are,
 

1 a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.

 

2 systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

 

 

While DA magic can never truly be considered "science" because part of using it deals with emotion and conjuring things from the Fade, that doesn't mean that there can't ALSO be a "scientific process" involved with learning and developing new techniques that can then be shared with other mages. There is a reason there are spell schools and specializations; mages focus on those and perfect them, and develop new things.

 

The WoT entries for both Dorian and Alexius, as well as references by Dorian in the game, do seem to suggest that there is intensive study and experimentation involved. I'd also suggest that Dagna, who can't use magic herself but has devoted her life to studying it, would agree with me.

 

You, or I, or anyone else, can't have that understanding as the player because magic isn't real, BUT I think the developers have established that characters in the world can have that sort of understanding.

[straykat]

Solas is also a god. His perspective is different.

 

Also, Patrick Weekes is a sophist. All of his characters declare some sort of "rightness" about them and play with words... even the ones without magic. And we're always left with empty headed responses, so he can loom above it all.

 

The whole setting is gonna suck balls with this guy in charge. But that's another story.

[nightscrawl]

So, the fact that Dorian is conversing with him intelligently means nothing?

[straykat]

So, the fact that Dorian is conversing with him intelligently means nothing?

 

It's dribble.

 

But besides that, the fundamental aspect of magic in this setting is shaped by Will. Whatever minutiae is involved it's still nothing compared to science.

 

And a culture shaped by Will is never going to see much need for science. Which is my point about the bridge. The closest thing I've seen to science is that one doctor in Skyhold.

 

And if I put a class as "scientific", Rogues are closer than mages are. I hate this association with eggheads and magic. It's kind of insulting to me tbh
(if that isn't obvious). But DA didn't start this. Been going on since "wizards" were invented.

[nightscrawl]

^ I guess we'll just have to disagree. /shrug

[Illegitimus]

Yeah, good luck with that. Argue that magic is just like science.

 

 

 

By no means.  "Science" is just a methodical approach for learning about things.  Magic is a technology.  

[Sifr]

The dwarves are said to have helped build a lot of Tevinter stuff back in the day (with the Vints using magic for the heavy lifting) when they constructed the Imperial Highway. I suspect the bridge may have either fell into disrepair, was intentionally sabotaged or otherwise damaged by the Darkspawn during the lengthy First Blight.

 

After the Blight ended, the bridge probably ended up falling outside the Imperium's borders as it's influence waned, or was far away from Minrathous it was deemed a low priority when it came to the reconstruction efforts. With the Dwarven kingdoms still overrun by the horde now underground, neither the Vints nor the Dwarves felt the desire, nor had the time to spend fixing a bridge neither would ever actually see use of.

[nightscrawl]

^ I'd imagine that by the time the Orlesian Empire was robust enough to go about maintaining it that it was already too far gone to make any effort worthwhile.

 

Then again, as vbibbi says above, the Inquisition rebuilding Judicael's Crossing in EdL is quite the feat of engineering itself, so such a task doesn't seem impossible...

[Halfdan The Menace]

Those bloody Vints created that foul bridge using magic, before the Qunari bombed it. Thumbs up for the oxmen, they have done a huge favor to the world.

[The Ascendant]

A pity. A bridge like that would be a sight to see.

[Sifr]

A pity. A bridge like that would be a sight to see.

 

Still would be cool to see even as a ruin.

 

I imagine it'd look like the broken section of the Imperial Highway that used to connect to the Circle Tower, but on a much larger scale.

[Heimdall]

Still would be cool to see even as a ruin.

I imagine it'd look like the broken section of the Imperial Highway that used to connect to the Circle Tower, but on a much larger scale.

I want to see more of the Imperial Highway in general. Was there any of it in DAI anyway?

[In Exile]

It probably also involved a massive amount of blood sacrifices. I doubt even the modern Imperium could rebuild it without resorting to pre-Andraste levels of blood magic.

Or it was Elven. Post Veil, but of the kind Tevinter usurped.

[nightscrawl]

I want to see more of the Imperial Highway in general. Was there any of it in DAI anyway?

 

I don't think so, sadly.

[Sifr]

I want to see more of the Imperial Highway in general. Was there any of it in DAI anyway?

 

Not any that I could see.

 

Would have been nice to see some ruined sections near Redcliffe, some parts covered by dunes in the Western Approach or maybe even swamped out parts in the Frostback Basin or Fallow Mire. Or have it just appear in the distance when you look out from places like Therinfal Redoubt, Caer Oswin or the Winter Palace, reminding us that it is still there?

 

Yeah, I guess it was a little overused in maps in DAO. Realistically, the random encounters couldn't all have taken place near the main road and in the shadow of the ruined highway, but it was a nice aesthetic that brought a lot of atmosphere to the game.

 

Could have handwaved it not being present in Ferelden by saying that in the aftermath of the Blight, some landowners (illegally) tore down parts of the Highway to rebuild their destroyed homes? Nicking building materials from famous landmarks happened to Stonehenge and Hadrian's Wall in our world, why not in Thedas?

[In Exile]

I don't think so, sadly.

I thought we saw parts of it in Emprise Du Lion?

[Wulfram]

Or it was Elven. Post Veil, but of the kind Tevinter usurped.

As I understand it elves didn't really go in for roads, they had eluvians.

Part of why they were so screwed when the veil went up. They just didn't have conventional infrastructure

[nightscrawl]

I thought we saw parts of it in Emprise Du Lion?

 
OH you're right.
 

Ruined Highway
 
The villagers of Sahrnia know little about the ruined highway standing above their home. Children play below its arches, oblivious to the danger the crumbling structure poses. Judging from its age, and the statues adorning its pillars, I would conjecture that it dates from the golden age of the Tevinter Imperium. It is an imposing sight, one I am glad to have seen.
 
-From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar by Brother Genitivi

 
I forgot about it because it uses the same art assets as Judicael's Crossing, with the Orlesian quatrefoil and everything (I'm pretty sure), so it doesn't look Tevinter.

[In Exile]

As I understand it elves didn't really go in for roads, they had eluvians.

Part of why they were so screwed when the veil went up. They just didn't have conventional infrastructure

There are likely two elven civilizations. The one that pre-dated the Veil, and a post-Veil society that was the one Tevinter supposedly overran (though I would not be shocked to find out that the original Tevinter was actually a human-elven state and the elves just got bred out).