60 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

No bundle package (Game plus all of the DLCs for a single price) and no big deals. Such a shame that Bioware and EA abandoned this game.

 

[Rxdiaz]

Because it flopped. Who would buy a version with all the dlc besides a handful of its fans? Face it, this game was not well received by gamers. I don't like it either fwiw.

[straykat]

Bioware doesn't hate it. EA probably does. Those are different things. And maybe the majority of players. Especially the type of people who have to be traditional heroes.

 

I like it, but I don't see the use for a repackaged version. Unless it's digital or something.. they don't have to spend anything for that at least.

[straykat]

You know, I'd like to just see him focus on a story. What annoys me about DAI is it depended on dispensing lore about all the high level world building stuff. Story took a backseat. Or rather, the story BECAME about the worldbuilding. They were going for a different tone for a moment with DA2 and Asunder. Or at least, it felt that way.

[Ghost Gal]

Because the game flopped and most fans reviled it.

 

Actually, I got the impression BioWare loves this game, it's just EA who doesn't (because it didn't make enough money), but EA makes the decisions. Which is actually crummy when you think about it because EA is the one who forced the devs to rush this thing to release, which caused its quality issues to drive off fans, then they wouldn't let BioWare try to save it with DLC. I may not like this game, but even I recognize that that's unfair.

 

At least they learned their lesson and let the devs take their time trying to make DAI the best game it was going to be, so that's nice.

 

Also, selfishly, I personally don't like the direction BioWare was trying to go with DA2--trying to use it as a gateway to make Dragon Age into "Mass Effect with swords" and Hawke into Fantasy Shepard (of the "fixed surname, monospecies protagonist of unspecified gender and profession" variety), so if there's one good thing that came out of this game being rejected, for me, it's that BioWare backed off and didn't try forcing that to be a thing anymore. (I know DAI still takes lots of cues from Mass Effect and the franchise as a whole still will, but it isn't an obvious shoe-horn the way DA2 almost was.)

[straykat]

Because the game flopped and most fans reviled it.

 

Actually, I got the impression BioWare loves this game, it's just EA who doesn't (because it didn't make enough money), but EA makes the decisions. Which is actually crummy when you think about it because EA is the one who forced the devs to rush this thing to release, which caused its quality issues to drive off fans, then they wouldn't let BioWare try to save it with DLC. I may not like this game, but even I recognize that that's unfair.

 

At least they learned their lesson and let the devs take their time trying to make DAI the best game it was going to be, so that's nice.

 

Also, selfishly, I personally don't like the direction BioWare was trying to go with DA2--trying to use it as a gateway to make Dragon Age into "Mass Effect with swords" and Hawke into Fantasy Shepard (of the "fixed surname, monospecies protagonist of unspecified gender and profession" variety), so if there's one good thing that came out of this game being rejected, for me, it's that BioWare backed off and didn't try forcing that to be a thing anymore. (I know DAI still takes lots of cues from Mass Effect and the franchise as a whole still will, but it isn't an obvious shoe-horn the way DA2 almost was.)

 

They did the same thing to ME3. It was rushed.. but the buck ends up stopping with the devs themselves.

 

Hawke is no fantasy Shepard. Not even close. Shepard and the Inquisitor have more relation to each other. Both touched by artifacts, both barely lack any personal elements to their story, both called up to solve end of the world crises against Dark Lords, who in turned are crowned as nearly demi-god like heroes.

 

The reason why Hawke isn't popular is he/she isn't a hero. They are critics at best. They aren't there to solve problems. DA2 is just there to show the problems. And most fans have this notion that that is all games are for.. to live out huge fantasies and fix giant global issues. They aren't here to just hear a different story for a change. It's always gotta be the same thing, else they throw a fit and start calling death threats on devs.

[Ghost Gal]

They did the same thing to ME3. It was rushed.. but the buck ends up stopping with the devs themselves.

 

DA2 was rushed to release. I've seen countless interviews where the devs talked about how they were rushing/cramming/racing against the clock trying to meet the deadline and how they didn't have time to polish problems, or they didn't notice problems until it was too late to change it (like Cullen not noticing that the robe-wearing, staff-wielding, fireball-shooting Hawke and/or party members might be mages), but they didn't have time to go back and fix it. They also sometimes comment on how they would have done things differently if they'd had time

 

In college terms, DA2 was a first draft that got cranked out the night before and turned in riddled with flaws, rather than getting the time it needed for proofreading and revisions and polishing.

 

Hawke is no fantasy Shepard. Not even close. Shepard and the Inquisitor have more relation to each other. Both touched by artifacts, both barely lack any personal elements to their story, both called up to solve end of the world crises against Dark Lords, who in turned are crowned as nearly demi-god like heroes.

 

I'm talking about how the two are presented and marketed as protagonists. Surname-addressed ("It's Hawke!" "Good evening, Commander Shepard!"), pre-designed (default appearances on the game covers!), voiced, human-only protagonist with three pre-set personalities ("Paragon," "Neutral," and "Renegade" personalities for Shepard, "Good," "Witty," "Angry,"), with everyone in-universe fawning over them from the moment Act 1 starts.

 

The reason why Hawke isn't popular is he/she isn't a hero. They are critics at best. They aren't there to solve problems. DA2 is just there to show the problems. And most fans have this notion that that is all games are for.. to live out huge fantasies and fix giant global issues. They aren't here to just hear a different story for a change. It's always gotta be the same thing, else they throw a fit and start calling death threats on devs.

 

I can't speak for Hawke's popularity since I personally think too many people give Hawke way more credit as a protagonist than s/he deserves.

 

Personally, I think you're giving this game way too much credit. You think people "just don't like something different," I think they want something good. DA2 is not a good game, Hawke is not a good protagonist, and DA2 does not have a good story. It's just some random schmuck piddling about a city for years running random errands for people, yet somehow inexplicably getting Person of Consequence treatment despite not doing anything special or important till the end of Act II. (The story isn't even special or unique, it's just the Human Noble and Mage's story rolled into one.)

 

Also, you argue that Hawke isn't supposed to be a hero, but I beg to differ. In-universe, Varric and Cassandra constantly discuss how Hawke became "a legend," and the marketing tried to pass Hawke off as "the most important person in Thedas" or "the hero who changed the fate of Thedas forever!" or something like that, yet what we're shown doesn't live up to the in-universe hype. To me, if you're going to treat a character like The Most Important Person in Thedas, then actually show us something worthy of praise.

 

To me, if you're going to do something "different," then make it good. 

[Lord Raijin]

Because it flopped. Who would buy a version with all the dlc besides a handful of its fans? Face it, this game was not well received by gamers. I don't like it either fwiw.

 

There is a lot of flaws in this game, yes, but it's still fun to play. It would be nice for the company to give us the option to purchase a bundle package through a digital (Origin) source. In fact Bioware/EA essentially forced the Dragon Age 2 DLCs onto us (Legacy) because it is the main story line for DAI so we more less have to play the game and the DLCs to further develop our own canon with our protags from DA1 all the way to DAI.

 

By the way I am willing to repurchase the game if it came in a bundle package for a single price. I just don't agree with the current price, especially considering the aging of the game.

[straykat]

 

DA2 was rushed to release. I've seen countless interviews where the devs talked about how they were rushing/cramming/racing against the clock trying to meet the deadline and how they didn't have time to polish problems, or they didn't notice problems until it was too late to change it (like Cullen not noticing that the robe-wearing, staff-wielding, fireball-shooting Hawke and/or party members might be mages), but they didn't have time to go back and fix it. They also sometimes comment on how they would have done things differently if they'd had time

 

In college terms, DA2 was a first draft that got cranked out the night before and turned in riddled with flaws, rather than getting the time it needed for proofreading and revisions and polishing.

 

 

I'm talking about how the two are presented and marketed as protagonists. Surname-addressed ("It's Hawke!" "Good evening, Commander Shepard!"), pre-designed (default appearances on the game covers!), voiced, human-only protagonist with three pre-set personalities ("Paragon," "Neutral," and "Renegade" personalities for Shepard, "Good," "Witty," "Angry,"), with everyone in-universe fawning over them from the moment Act 1 starts.

 

 

I can't speak for Hawke's popularity since I personally think too many people give Hawke way more credit as a protagonist than s/he deserves.

 

Personally, I think you're giving this game way too much credit. You think people "just don't like something different," I think they want something good. DA2 is not a good game, Hawke is not a good protagonist, and DA2 does not have a good story. It's just some random schmuck piddling about a city for years running random errands for people, yet somehow inexplicably getting Person of Consequence treatment despite not doing anything special or important till the end of Act II. (The story isn't even special or unique, it's just the Human Noble and Mage's story rolled into one.)

 

Also, you argue that Hawke isn't supposed to be a hero, but I beg to differ. In-universe, Varric and Cassandra constantly discuss how Hawke became "a legend," and the marketing tried to pass Hawke off as "the most important person in Thedas" or "the hero who changed the fate of Thedas forever!" or something like that, yet what we're shown doesn't live up to the in-universe hype. To me, if you're going to treat a character like The Most Important Person in Thedas, then actually show us something worthy of praise.

 

To me, if you're going to do something "different," then make it good. 

 

 

Well,  I think it's a good game. Sorry to break it to ya. It isn't some objective fact that it's not good, for everyone.

 

I'll agree that it was marketed with more importance. I think they planned a bit more though. It sucks when things get cut short. I don't care what it is. I like artists to fulfill their visions. For better or worse.

 

But I doubt you yourself even gave it much of a chance. You're a biased elf fan. I don't find that bad necessarily, but you see the worst in things if it doesn't fit these requirements. You would have viewed DAI negatively too, if you didn't get your way. Or you have to view Cousland fans as trite or something.

[Lord Raijin]

 

DA2 was rushed to release. I've seen countless interviews where the devs talked about how they were rushing/cramming/racing against the clock trying to meet the deadline and how they didn't have time to polish problems, or they didn't notice problems until it was too late to change it (like Cullen not noticing that the robe-wearing, staff-wielding, fireball-shooting Hawke and/or party members might be mages), but they didn't have time to go back and fix it. They also sometimes comment on how they would have done things differently if they'd had time

 

In college terms, DA2 was a first draft that got cranked out the night before and turned in riddled with flaws, rather than getting the time it needed for proofreading and revisions and polishing.

 

I would like to correct this as Cullen started having suspicious of Hawke being a mage. He mentions back in the gallows "I heard some disturbing rumors about you" He also called Anders a mage in with regards to the debate on the Rite of tranquillity. Here's the clip if you like https://youtu.be/s0yd6LdWnuU?t=4m38s

[straykat]

I would like to correct this as Cullen started having suspicious of Hawke being a mage. He mentions back in the gallows "I heard some disturbing rumors about you" He also called Anders a mage in with regards to the debate on the Rite of tranquillity. Here's the clip if you like https://youtu.be/s0yd6LdWnuU?t=4m38s

 

It's kind of hard to catch. I didn't hear it until recently.

 

I just don't bring Anders to places like that. That's badly done, I admit.

[Shechinah]

I've never gotten the impression that Bioware disliked or even hated the game; quite the opposite as I think the writers especially David Gaider had expressed fondness for it and the storyline.   

[cJohnOne]

My holey memory says that DA2 sold over 2 million and was pretty average in sales.  Sure DAO sold over 3 million.  There's this ideas that DA2 dropped off in sales was unusual when it was actually quite average. 

 

There wasn't that many DLC and Mark of the Assassin and Legacy are well worth the Whatever it is 10 dollars?

[GoldenGail3]

Well,  I think it's a good game. Sorry to break it to ya. It isn't some objective fact that it's not good, for everyone.
 
I'll agree that it was marketed with more importance. I think they planned a bit more though. It sucks when things get cut short. I don't care what it is. I like artists to fulfill their visions. For better or worse.
 
But I doubt you yourself even gave it much of a chance. You're a biased elf fan. I don't find that bad necessarily, but you see the worst in things if it doesn't fit these requirements. You would have viewed DAI negatively too, if you didn't get your way. Or you have to view Cousland fans as trite or something.

My oponion of DA2 is like "okay, I only like my Canon Hawke, who's game is everything I like about DA2" and then I'm kind of indifferent about. I never really hated it - I am a critical thinker of everything (DAO had its faults too - but then again it, it was fine)..

[kimgoold]

Because the game flopped and most fans reviled it.

 

Actually, I got the impression BioWare loves this game, it's just EA who doesn't (because it didn't make enough money), but EA makes the decisions. Which is actually crummy when you think about it because EA is the one who forced the devs to rush this thing to release, which caused its quality issues to drive off fans, then they wouldn't let BioWare try to save it with DLC. I may not like this game, but even I recognize that that's unfair.

 

At least they learned their lesson and let the devs take their time trying to make DAI the best game it was going to be, so that's nice.

 

Also, selfishly, I personally don't like the direction BioWare was trying to go with DA2--trying to use it as a gateway to make Dragon Age into "Mass Effect with swords" and Hawke into Fantasy Shepard (of the "fixed surname, monospecies protagonist of unspecified gender and profession" variety), so if there's one good thing that came out of this game being rejected, for me, it's that BioWare backed off and didn't try forcing that to be a thing anymore. (I know DAI still takes lots of cues from Mass Effect and the franchise as a whole still will, but it isn't an obvious shoe-horn the way DA2 almost was.)

 

I sincerely hope they have learned their lesson as I get the feeling they're trying the same with DA 4 ; we'll have two humans to choose from our new protagonists from Magekiller. I would really hate that a lot, as I hate being forced to play as a human in a game that offers other races to choose from ... Dwarf, Elf, Qunari.

[straykat]

I sincerely hope they have learned their lesson as I get the feeling they're trying the same with DA 4 ; we'll have two humans to choose from our new protagonists from Magekiller. I would really hate that a lot, as I hate being forced to play as a human in a game that offers other races to choose from ... Dwarf, Elf, Qunari.

 

I like race selections, but they need to write a story around it first. Not the other way around. It would have been better if DAI was never about an Inquisition.. if this was so important. This is why the Grey Wardens worked well for DAO... because it was neutral. I'm sure that's why they're named the "Grey". The story fit that openendedness. But DAI and especially DA2's story didn't. It's about a Ferelden refugee, with a specific family and specific legacy they're trying to work through. If people stepped back from constantly wanting a neutral type of story, they might appreciate DA2 a little more as well. Often, it's not being judged for what it is.. but for what it isn't. Which is unfair. It's not like we judge other stories that way. Do I get upset about the Hangover because it isn't the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? No.

 

And even when they put races in DAI, it still turned out that 80% of people played human. It's ridiculous how much importance there is placed on this around here, when it doesn't significantly matter. I'd prefer those millions of dollars and extra time just be spent on content. DAI needed that more.

 

There's room to tell many stories too and do all the varying elements of the world justice. I'd much prefer to hear about dwarves on their own adventures or elven hunters off doing their own things instead of getting caught up in the Chantry or dancing with the Empress of Orlais. DnD does this all the time. It's not like the wood elves are crowning human rulers and choosing their religions for them. Hell, there are dozens of variations of elves alone -- and they don't affect each other much either. Dragon Age is becoming such a small world in comparison, if everyone has a say-so in every problem. That's not caring about races at all, when they become so dilluted they can be grafted in anywhere and act like experts at being human.

[Kantr]

I have to wonder what the founders were thinking when they sold the company to EA.

[straykat]

I have to wonder what the founders were thinking when they sold the company to EA.

 

I imagine they needed the capital.. they were working on DAO and ME2 at the same time, I think. And besides that, I think DAO was first considered as an MMO. Or something was. They were floating the idea of a fantasy MMO at the time. Some resources were thrown into that too.

 

I only wish they had been acquired by someone else...if they're were going to do it at all. Even Microsoft is friendlier to game developers. I think there's a reason why Casey Hudson ended up working for them.

[GoldenGail3]

I imagine they needed the capital.. they were working on DAO and ME2 at the same time, I think. And besides that, I think DAO was first considered as an MMO. Or something was. They were floating the idea of a fantasy MMO at the time. Some resources were thrown into that too.
 
I only wish they had been acquired by someone else...if they're were going to do it at all. Even Microsoft is friendlier to game developers. I think there's a reason why Casey Hudson ended up working for them.

If only Microsoft had acquired them first, DA2 might be a epic game to play...

[Lord Raijin]

I have to wonder what the founders were thinking when they sold the company to EA.

 

Maybe they were seduced by a desire demon?

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I've said it before and I will say it again the main story in DA:O is basically the plot of a fantasy movie, DA2's main plot was basically a 5 season TV show with seasons 2 and 4 missing.

[AnimalBoy]

I don't know if they hate it or not but it's a shame if they do. I love the game, the characters and i'll defend Hawke (My favorite DA character) till the day i die. I eneded up buying the game and the dlc separately but i do wish it had all been in one package.

[kimgoold]

I like race selections, but they need to write a story around it first. Not the other way around. It would have been better if DAI was never about an Inquisition.. if this was so important. This is why the Grey Wardens worked well for DAO... because it was neutral. I'm sure that's why they're named the "Grey". The story fit that openendedness. But DAI and especially DA2's story didn't. It's about a Ferelden refugee, with a specific family and specific legacy they're trying to work through. If people stepped back from constantly wanting a neutral type of story, they might appreciate DA2 a little more as well. Often, it's not being judged for what it is.. but for what it isn't. Which is unfair. It's not like we judge other stories that way. Do I get upset about the Hangover because it isn't the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? No.

 

And even when they put races in DAI, it still turned out that 80% of people played human. It's ridiculous how much importance there is placed on this around here, when it doesn't significantly matter. I'd prefer those millions of dollars and extra time just be spent on content. DAI needed that more.

 

There's room to tell many stories too and do all the varying elements of the world justice. I'd much prefer to hear about dwarves on their own adventures or elven hunters off doing their own things instead of getting caught up in the Chantry or dancing with the Empress of Orlais. DnD does this all the time. It's not like the wood elves are crowning human rulers and choosing their religions for them. Hell, there are dozens of variations of elves alone -- and they don't affect each other much either. Dragon Age is becoming such a small world in comparison, if everyone has a say-so in every problem. That's not caring about races at all, when they become so dilluted they can be grafted in anywhere and act like experts at being human.

 

Tevinter has Dwarven Merchants, Tal-Vashoth mercenaries, Elven slaves so these are hardly races shoe-horned in to suit certain players favourite race in game. And if I'm forced to play as a human in DA4 I want Maevaris; the entire Magekiller series was created so we'd connect to a Human character they plan to make the only choice in DA4 like Hawke which I resent when other races are viable options too.

[Lythinae]

Tevinter has Dwarven Merchants, Tal-Vashoth mercenaries, Elven slaves so these are hardly races shoe-horned in to suit certain players favourite race in game. And if I'm forced to play as a human in DA4 I want Maevaris; the entire Magekiller series was created so we'd connect to a Human character they plan to make the only choice in DA4 like Hawke which I resent when other races are viable options too.

The problem with just jamming more than one race is it often just gets ignored when it's inconvenient, regardless of whether it fits the world.  An elf protagonist in DA2 should have resulted in much different story.

I'm not against multiple race PCs, but if an elf slave gets the same basic story as a dwarf merchant with only passing references being the difference, that's just ****** poor story telling.

[Sah291]

I like race selections, but they need to write a story around it first. Not the other way around. It would have been better if DAI was never about an Inquisition.. if this was so important. This is why the Grey Wardens worked well for DAO... because it was neutral. I'm sure that's why they're named the "Grey". The story fit that openendedness. But DAI and especially DA2's story didn't. It's about a Ferelden refugee, with a specific family and specific legacy they're trying to work through. If people stepped back from constantly wanting a neutral type of story, they might appreciate DA2 a little more as well. Often, it's not being judged for what it is.. but for what it isn't. Which is unfair. It's not like we judge other stories that way. Do I get upset about the Hangover because it isn't the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? No.
 
And even when they put races in DAI, it still turned out that 80% of people played human. It's ridiculous how much importance there is placed on this around here, when it doesn't significantly matter. I'd prefer those millions of dollars and extra time just be spent on content. DAI needed that more.
 
There's room to tell many stories too and do all the varying elements of the world justice. I'd much prefer to hear about dwarves on their own adventures or elven hunters off doing their own things instead of getting caught up in the Chantry or dancing with the Empress of Orlais. DnD does this all the time. It's not like the wood elves are crowning human rulers and choosing their religions for them. Hell, there are dozens of variations of elves alone -- and they don't affect each other much either. Dragon Age is becoming such a small world in comparison, if everyone has a say-so in every problem. That's not caring about races at all, when they become so dilluted they can be grafted in anywhere and act like experts at being human.

I agree, although they didn't have a bad setup for DAI for races, considering you start the game off as a suspect who they don't trust at first....it makes a lot of sense if that person would be an outsider somehow. Actually, it makes the most amount of sense if that person would have been Hawke, who actually was a fugitive and really would have made a controversial leader.... But anyway... They resolved that issue a little too fast, I think, and you transition to hero straight away. I do like the Dalish Inquistitor, though, thanks to all the elven lore. But you can tell the races were added in late.