52 réponses à ce sujet

[Element Zero]

The way I see it classes only exist for gameplay mechanics.

This is definitely the case. You'd never hear the characters discussing artificial constructs like character classes. Those exist for us, the players.

[Element Zero]

Flight is ridiculous, yes. But that's not what they're doing. They're just lowering the weight it takes to pull them down. Even Samara doesn't linger in the air indefinitely.

Yes, but that's not how gravity works. Like I mentioned, I hate those particular scenes very much, despite their being no less ridiculous than the very concept of element zero. I think it's because eezo and the mass effect was intentional and we were asked to believe. The latter cut scenes were simply done in ignorance by someone who thought a less massive person or item would fall 10m more slowly than a "full-sized" person. If you and your kid jump off the roof together, you'll hit together, despite your higher mass. Your smart phone will hit at the same time, also. Like I said, it's not important in light of the greater space fantasy going on, it's a personal gripe.

As to my reference to flight, I wasn't even referencing those scenes. I was talking about the possibility of biotics getting out of control in future games. I love biotics. Adept is my favorite class, though I love them all. Still, I think biotics were more than powerful enough in ME3.

I would definitely like to see biotics continue to evolve in the series, along with all of the other character abilities. I love variety. I just don't want it to go in the direction of super-powers. I think we've reached that threshold.

[straykat]

Yes, but that's not how gravity works. Like I mentioned, I hate those particular scenes very much, despite their being no less ridiculous than the very concept of element zero. I think it's because eezo and the mass effect was intentional and we were asked to believe. The latter cut scenes were simply done in ignorance by someone who thought a less massive person or item would fall 10m more slowly than a "full-sized" person. If you and your kid jump off the roof together, you'll hit together, despite your higher mass. Your smart phone will hit at the same time, also. Like I said, it's not important in light of the greater space fantasy going on, it's a personal gripe.

As to my reference to flight, I wasn't even referencing those scenes. I was talking about the possibility of biotics getting out of control in future games. I love biotics. Adept is my favorite class, though I love them all. Still, I think biotics were more than powerful enough in ME3.

I would definitely like to see biotics continue to evolve in the series, along with all of the other character abilities. I love variety. I just don't want it to go in the direction of super-powers. I think we've reached that threshold.

 

They're powerful, yes. I just mean the gameplay itself isn't that great. There could be more flashiness and environmental effects, for one. At their core, the games are pretty basic TPS's. It's a whole slew of things that makes me enjoy them... but I've never been a fan of the combat on it's own.

 

Strangely, ME1 had more environmental effects.. even though it wasn't much either.

[Valhallix]

They're powerful, yes. I just mean the gameplay itself isn't that great. There could be more flashiness and environmental effects, for one. At their core, the games are pretty basic TPS's. It's a whole slew of things that makes me enjoy them... but I've never been a fan of the combat on it's own.

 

Adept isn't fun, but Vanguard is. I quite enjoy knocking cerberus troops off cliffs or crashing into a detonation someone set up, bringing up the power wheel just to see who i'm gonna strike next, dodge rolling in and out of combat. The most enjoyable class in the game imo even if it is overpowered.

 

I wish they'd bring back the physics from the original ME. It made biotics so fun....until you, you know accidentally singularitied a crate or several infront of a doorway lol. Still loved it, made me feel like a god.

 

As for the power of biotics in game, they're actually weaker in 3 (excluding multiplayer powers) than they were in the original. Lift and throw could take entire groups out in the original and go through shields. No doubt this was a creative decision by the developers since the sequels became more cover based shooters with fewer enemies attacking you at once.

[Element Zero]

They're powerful, yes. I just mean the gameplay itself isn't that great. There could be more flashiness and environmental effects, for one. At their core, the games are pretty basic TPS's. It's a whole slew of things that makes me enjoy them... but I've never been a fan of the combat on it's own.
 
Strangely, ME1 had more environmental effects.. even though it wasn't much either.

Yeah, the first game also had more effort put into the non-combat effects of biotics. While the shooter gameplay definitely improved with each iteration, ME1 had some really great visual and environmental effects that were abandoned.

ME1's biotics affected not just targeted enemies, but the objects around them. Light was distorted. These are things you'd expect when you start playing with mass and gravitation. The first game seemed more dedicated to the scifi elements. I'm hoping we will see a return of some of that, with the new FB engine and this opportunity to reboot in Andromeda.

[Element Zero]

Adept isn't fun, but Vanguard is. I quite enjoy knocking cerberus troops off cliffs or crashing into a detonation someone set up, bringing up the power wheel just to see who i'm gonna strike next, dodge rolling in and out of combat. The most enjoyable class in the game imo even if it is overpowered.

I wish they'd bring back the physics from the original ME. It made biotics so fun....until you, you know accidentally singularitied a crate or several infront of a doorway lol. Still loved it, made me feel like a god.

As for the power of biotics in game, they're actually weaker in 3 (excluding multiplayer powers) than they were in the original. Lift and throw could take entire groups out in the original and go through shields.

I don't want overpowered biotics like ME1, since I do enjoy balanced gameplay along with my RPG, but I absolutely want all of the environmental and visual effects. We are playing with mass and gravity; that's the type of stuff we should see happening!

I never got into the Vanguard. Maybe I'm a bit to "under control". I love all of the biotic detonations the Adept can unleash in ME3. It was already my favorite class from ME1 (even if I play as a Vanguard and pretend it's an Adept ), but ME3 made it even more fun. I need to play as a Vanguard, I think, on my next run through the trilogy.

[straykat]

The only thing I don't like about Vanguard is (and I said this recently) that I feel separated from the team a bit. It feels more singleplayer-ish.

 

edit: Err... single character-ish, I mean.

[Valhallix]

I still utilize the team. If I have Kaidan, Garrus, James or Liara in the team I have them Reave, Overload, Carnage, Singularity a target right at the moment i'm charging to them, it's great....and Kaidan using group Reave is just devastating when you nova them all.

 

I don't want overpowered biotics like ME1, since I do enjoy balanced gameplay along with my RPG, but I absolutely want all of the environmental and visual effects. We are playing with mass and gravity; that's the type of stuff we should see happening!

I never got into the Vanguard. Maybe I'm a bit to "under control". I love all of the biotic detonations the Adept can unleash in ME3. It was already my favorite class from ME1 (even if I play as a Vanguard and pretend it's an Adept ), but ME3 made it even more fun. I need to play as a Vanguard, I think, on my next run through the trilogy.

 

They were balanced for ME. They might have been more powerful in application? but in ME3 biotics are definately cheaper. In the original you used all your skills on the hardest mode, and none of them were available to use again after 2 seconds unless you used Adrenaline. Even fully maxed out powers in ME1 had far longer wait times than ME3 powers with only one point in them.

 

In 3 they just simplified it and just 2 abilities can get you out of every situation in the game on insanity. So you just end up using those abilities and nothing else. I think biotics sharing a cooldown and being as spammable as they are in the sequels was one of the biggest mistakes they made with the franchise, but I can see why they did it. It was for the sake of the game becoming more of a shooter.

 

I like Adept, and I really liked it in the original and 2 I think. It just feels a bit weak in 3. If Shepard could use Liara's version of singularity which is an instant cast singularity (and how it was in the original)  that would be much better. As is most of the time it gets caught on structures and fails to actually lift people even when it's right next to them. Singularity in the original also held people in place. In the sequels it often tosses them toward you which can get you killed sometimes if you're already under heavy fire by people infront of you. It was especially a problem in ME2 when there was no dodge.

[Element Zero]

Yeah, all great points.

I don't use Singularity in ME3. It is completely irrelevant in light of Double Pull and its nanosecond cool down time. If you're trying to use Singularity, I can see why you are not impressed with the Adept.

Honestly, making any of these powers into projectiles doesn't make much sense. A singularity should simply form. One should simply be lifted/pulled. Throw should be an invisible field, or a distortion, not a projectile. Like we've all been saying, it's a case of shooter mechanics dictating visuals and gameplay.

I'm hoping that the difficulty is raised in MEA, not through tougher shooter mechanics, but through smarter design. As you said, it just got too easy. Pull -> Throw = Detonate. Warp -> Throw = Detonate. Every single class has its version, and cool downs are virtually non-existent.

On the one hand, I liked that I could finally play my adept as described, destroying the opposition without firing a shot. Still, I'd like it to require more variety and thought. They're getting better each time, I think, so I'm hopeful that MEA will improve. I think they've gotten the shooter thing down pat, so I hope they look to refine and deepen the presentation. Give us more options and make us use them. Make us think strategically.

[Valhallix]

Bioware has a habit of doing that with the introduction of new abilities. It was bad enough that Adept's main class power was underwhelming, then they had to go and release the awesomeness that is Lash which made pull pretty irrelevant since it can go through shields. I'm not complaining though because Lash is the most hilarious ability in 3. I hope they bring it back. Like a biotic Spiderman!

[rocklikeafool]

I'm hoping they atleast show the proper classes abilities in this game unlike in the trilogy. Jetpacks should be for soldier type classes. Biotics don't need jetpacks!

Wouldn't Engineers get jetpacks too?

 

Also, I don't think Biotics can actually fly. Levitation =/= flight, as there's no active propulsion involved.

[Valhallix]

Wouldn't Engineers get jetpacks too?

 

Also, I don't think Biotics can actually fly. Levitation =/= flight, as there's no active propulsion involved.

 

Read the rest of the thread we already got into this lol

[ZipZap2000]

The only thing I don't like about Vanguard is (and I said this recently) that I feel separated from the team a bit. It feels more singleplayer-ish.

edit: Err... single character-ish, I mean.

I felt that way as a sentinel. Un-freaking stoppable.

[Laughing_Man]

Also, I don't think Biotics can actually fly. Levitation =/= flight, as there's no active propulsion involved.

 

Well, biotics can lower their weight and glide / hover, they can also charge.

 

It's not that far fetches to believe that a skilled biotic can achieve at least a limited form of flight.

 

Also, while using a jetpack, a biotic could theoretically lower his weight significantly, therefore gaining speed while burning very little fuel.

That could make a jetpack-using biotic into a *very* impressive sight.

[Element Zero]

Yeah, if you add lift and/or thrust, it starts making sense. Then we are looking at making biotics better at using a jet pack than the other classes. It's probably safer to just leave that level of granularity for novels and tabletop RPGs.

Talking about the game this much is starting to rouse that feeling of impatience once more. It will likely be about a year from now that we are all finally playing MEA. That equates to a lot more of these conversations, long absences from the forums, energetic returns, rinse and repeat... all while replaying the original trilogy who can knows how many more times. Sigh.

[Valhallix]

Yeah, if you add lift and/or thrust, it starts making sense. Then we are looking at making biotics better at using a jet pack than the other classes. It's probably safer to just leave that level of granularity for novels and tabletop RPGs.
Talking about the game this much is starting to rouse that feeling of impatience once more. It will likely be about a year from now that we are all finally playing MEA. That equates to a lot more of these conversations, long absences from the forums, energetic returns, rinse and repeat... all while replaying the original trilogy who can knows how many more times. Sigh.

No! Biotic supremacy! I want to feel superior to my jetpack using squadmates. We shouldn't be held back because normies can't biotic!

Yeah I replayed the trilogy too, still am. I tried to play Dragon Age Inquisition, but it's just not the same. I had to go back to the trilogy.

[Element Zero]

DAI wasn't my cup of tea. I loved DAO. The story and the tone it achieved really caught on with me. I really enjoy the DA novels that involved King Maric, Loghain and the darkspawn, as well. (The Calling is an excellent fantasy read, in my opinion.) I liked DA2, despite it being rushed. I would've been fine with Hawke returning in a sequel as DA's version of Shepard. DAI made me realize how much I truly hate DA's gameplay. It's one thing to play the game for 30 hours or so, but 80+ hours was misery, and the game was all around a tremendous letdown. I will no longer be supporting the IP. (That's not idle forum talk. I traded in all of the games, even DAO. I figured it was a good time to exit the series.)

Mass Effect, on the other hand, I can't stop playing, despite its flaws. Even those terrible endings couldn't break me, though they did break my heart for a while. I'm hopeful MEA won't do anything to ruin ME the way DAI made me swear off DA.

[Element Zero]

I feel like we sort of took this thread into entirely different pastures than the OP intended, but I did have an idea for an environmental threat. You couldn't use it more than once, but I always thought it would be fun to get caught in a meteorite shower in a space game.

Get to cover fast, or die. Or, if it's story appropriate, maybe a several biotics are able to manage a barrier strong enough to protect a few people. Maybe a cave into which you flee for cover from the meteorites leads to additional discoveries and threats, be they environmental, technological, biological, whatever...

There, I've now once more contributed something toward the original question.

[Valhallix]

For a time I would play the trilogy from the very beginning but when I got close to the ending (where everyone is saying goodbye) I exit to the main menu and either start a new game or start the trilogy over LOL. A few days ago I finally got the courage to see the ending through again. It destroyed my very being for the second time. I wish I just exited to the main menu that time. Now I just pretend that the Citadel dlc is the end.

I still have my DAI, I just can't bring myself to play it. It was one of the first games I purchased for PS4. I downloaded the dlc too and have yet to beat it. I'm not that fond of most of the companions, but I think my biggest problem with it is the combat, and that I feel like i'm playing an MMO but not a good one. Knight-enchanter is the most fun class imo but it still gets old pretty fast. The locations in the game all feel the same with a different coat of paint. I must say ME aged well, though. Even the graphics on the original still hold up. It makes it much easier to go back to it.

I don't mind ME not becoming Uncharted. All I want is for the physics to return. All i'd ask for is a weather system maybe day and night cycles where the nights are really dark like in Dragons Dogma and harder enemies come out. Just don't make the maps always day or always night like DAI did.

[Element Zero]

I came to terms with the endings, even if I'll never love them. I had to, or the series would've been ruined for me. Priority: Earth is lackluster and the endings aren't great, but the DLC, time and repetition helped. It's not the awesome conclusion I wanted, but at least I save our cycle and end the harvest. I've learned to be satisfied with that.

I always play the main mission of The Citadel DLC, but I generally don't go through all of the individual character content and the party. I might go through that thoroughly one in five times through the game. It's just too time consuming and immersion breaking for me, since I play it before the final assault on Cerberus. It's nice that you can always drop back in and finish, as long as you haven't initiated the party.

I have to admit, unless I'm playing as an Infiltrator, I always use a save editor to start the game with the M7 Lancer. I was not a fan of the switch to thermal clips, since I loved the original weapon concepts as presented in the first game and novels. Once the updated Lancer was restored to us, all other weapons became mostly useless to me.

[NKnight7]

Environmental enemies can be fun and maybe act as a puzzle/challenge for the player to overcome, I'd like to see it in Andromeda.

[Sartoz]

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Hm....

Puzzle and running through an obstacle course are just game time sinks and slows pacing... a poor way to stretch game hours. I'd be really, really frustrated if this quest type is mandatory. Chess and GO are thinking games, HOI series are strategy games, Mass Effect games are cinematic and action RPGs with the added benefit of being entertaining.

 

My preference is to keep it that way.

[Silcron]

I feel like we sort of took this thread into entirely different pastures than the OP intended, but I did have an idea for an environmental threat. You couldn't use it more than once, but I always thought it would be fun to get caught in a meteorite shower in a space game.

Get to cover fast, or die. Or, if it's story appropriate, maybe a several biotics are able to manage a barrier strong enough to protect a few people. Maybe a cave into which you flee for cover from the meteorites leads to additional discoveries and threats, be they environmental, technological, biological, whatever...

There, I've now once more contributed something toward the original question.

 

Hahahaha.

 

Don't worry about it. I rarely create threads and my only goal tends to be to spark some kind of conversation so, 100% success on this one

 

Also, thank you all for contributing

[Silcron]

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Hm....

Puzzle and running through an obstacle course are just game time sinks and slows pacing... a poor way to stretch game hours. I'd be really, really frustrated if this quest type is mandatory. Chess and GO are thinking games, HOI series are strategy games, Mass Effect games are cinematic and action RPGs with the added benefit of being entertaining.

 

My preference is to keep it that way.

 

I get that, but not everything has to keep the same pace. I wouldn't want  every mission's pace to be interrupted but you could have a slower paced, maybe more investigation based mission to add variety to it.

 

And if we have areas to explore in planets like  in ME1 I think this could help with a change of pace from what most missions would be.

[yolobastien6412]

Yes, but that's not how gravity works. Like I mentioned, I hate those particular scenes very much, despite their being no less ridiculous than the very concept of element zero. I think it's because eezo and the mass effect was intentional and we were asked to believe. The latter cut scenes were simply done in ignorance by someone who thought a less massive person or item would fall 10m more slowly than a "full-sized" person. If you and your kid jump off the roof together, you'll hit together, despite your higher mass. Your smart phone will hit at the same time, also. Like I said, it's not important in light of the greater space fantasy going on, it's a personal gripe.

/cut

It doesn't bother me so much anymore, but it was pretty annoying, Samara just gliding down like Wonder Woman.

But it could make sense, since she is lowering her mass, but her volume stays the same, therefore she would be less dense than a feather, and have a much greater surface area for air resistance to slow her down, even at such slow speeds.