@ Rosemusk.
There is porn specifically designed for straight women. It's exclusive to them, created with them in mind. That kind of porn is made to excite them, so it's mostly objectification of men or showing women taking their own pleasure with their own fantasy there.
I can't really see someone like Bayonet, who you are trying to reassure, ever supporting feminism. Just look at what he believes it is above. There are people who can be convinced, and there are people who just want to live in their own delusions. The people who just see a bad image and could be convinced generally don't just start making imaginary arguments up. They actually engage in what people have posted.
I used to be a feminist. I went through the American college education so becoming a feminist was inevitable. I woke up to reality the moment I started to stand up for myself and for my rights and got told to f*ck off, because of some bullsh*t mythical privilege that all men are supposed to have, even though I am brown and short (5'5" / 1.65m). One thing lead to another and the result is what we have now - I know that feminism, specifically the third wave feminism, is a misandric movement.
I don't need to believe those things I posted because the things I listed actually happened. You can look them up, I provided links. If you say that "its just bad image", it isn't because the radical crazies are the ones lobbying, they are ones pushing for laws, they are the ones in position of power and they are the ones the press listens to.
I can't really see someone like Bayonet, who you are trying to reassure, ever supporting feminism. Just look at what he believes it is above. There are people who can be convinced, and there are people who just want to live in their own delusions. The people who just see a bad image and could be convinced generally don't just start making imaginary arguments up. They actually engage in what people have posted.
Bayonet is more the end result of what I'm talking about, someone that has encountered these radical views and tuned into these radical voices who have become the leading voices of feminism in his eyes, further stirred up into a fury by constant accusations of delusion or misogyny for voicing his objection. Some of their points really are relevant, when discussing those radical positions, but now he seems to color all feminism that way. But not everyone is like that. I try hard to see both sides of the issue because I sympathize with Bayonet's sense of frustration and my experience with third wave feminism has been one of well-intentioned self-righteous closed-mindedness and hostility to dissent. At the same time, I've found moderate feminists that I find agreeable and far more sympathetic.
Reassurance can prevent people from reaching that point and discredit those radicals voices.
I used to be a feminist. I went through the American college education so becoming a feminist was inevitable. I woke up to reality the moment I started to stand up for myself and for my rights and got told to f*ck off, because of some bullsh*t mythical privilege that all men are supposed to have, even though I am brown and short (5'5" / 1.65m). One thing lead to another and the result is what we have now - I know that feminism, specifically the third wave feminism, is a misandric movement.
I don't need to believe those things I posted because the things I listed actually happened. You can look them up, I provided links. If you say that "its just bad image", it isn't because the radical crazies are the ones lobbying, they are ones pushing for laws, they are the ones in position of power and they are the ones the press listens to.
Now that this entire thread has been derailed to discuss your personal feelings about feminism I would like to highlight how in the US now there is a more fundamentalist movement than ever before aimed at reducing reproductive rights for women and all sorts of things.
I do not need to provide links it's easy to find there are battles in each and every state of my country where people are using clever legal methods to prevent women from doing what they are legally by law provided access to do.
Not everyone that is a feminist is freaking delusional, man. *shrugs*
I am not in the business of trying to convince walls not to be walls though so I'll leave that job for someone else more willing. But to label ANY group with complete black and whiteness is folly IMO. Whether it be men, women, children, religions, templars or mages. Period.
Your neo-Puritanical anti-sex perspective ? I mean who are you to tell what other women should wear ? Do you see men telling other men, other fictional men what to wear ? Nope. Neither should you.
I know many women IRL who dress in what you call "objectifying manner" and they do so because they like it. So you would tell these women to not do that because of your "perspective" ?
Your flawed perspective that video games somehow cause sexism and violence ? You shouldn't be surprised why your perspectives are neither acknowledged nor represented.
For you, its inappropriately sexualized. Not for other women. Don't claim to speak for all women. Just go to CDPR forums or Witcher reddit site and see how many women there enjoy playing the game and like the female characters.
So what do you call the sex scene in ME1 ? Porn ? This level of moral posturing reminds of Fox News and their anti-sex crusade against Mass Effect.
You are behaving exactly like the anti-sex conservatives at Fox News only now its somehow justifiable to you because its The Witcher ?
How is this any different from a certain religion that forces women to cover themselves up ? You know the reason they give for forcing women into covering themselves up - Because men are sex-crazed animals and we must protect the women and this is how we should do it.
Why is this a problem ? Geralt is a mutant and a social outcast. Only the delusional would think that somehow Geralt's action will turn men everywhere into horndogs. Reality check - They don't.
Fyi, Celene slept with and f*cked Briala while she did horrible things to her family and to the Elves. Leliana f*cked clients and sometimes killed them. Isable f*cked around so hard that she had to go to a Spirit Healer to cure her STDs.
Somehow no complaints there. Oh wait, those are women, Geralt is a white male. So its muh privilege
I mean, looking at some of the responses in this thread, its like people want female characters and homosexual characters with no flaws, female characters that will wear what these people dictate them to wear and how these people dictate them to present themselves because otherwise its muh soggy knees and bad representation.
Story be damned. Characters be damned. Consistency be damned. What we want is cultural authoritarianism and censorship.
Please point me in the direction of these fantasy worlds that have all have sexy men running around naked wanting to have sex all the time? Seriously, where are these?
Buff + muscular men are designed to appeal to men, not women. They are power fantasies, not sex fantasies.
I think a lot of argument and backlash on this issue is generated by the perceived demonization of hetero-male sexuality, which generates a lot of the frustration and vitriol Bayonet is currently demonstrating for us.
I think some important questions to answer would be about how and if male sexuality (Or any sexuality for that matter) can be catered to without objectifying the object of attraction. We all internally objectify people everytime we admire another person's body or see them solely in terms of a role we expect them to perform. Second, if objectification is unavoidable while catering to sexuality, what if not all objectification is actually harmful?
The thing is the witcher 3 is a game designed for male audience with a straight dude and his POV. Most women who played TW3 and liked the game were smart enough and aknowlegded that, and while they might have been disappointed to not have seen the assets of Geralt in the sex scene, they understood why it didn't happen. And didn't think sexism. They just understood the point of an audience being targeted regardless of the demographic to sell a lot.
TW3 is not meant to be a straight dude dating sim. This is where the disconnect comes in. There's nothing wrong with creating super-sexualized products to give dudes boners. But people create works for totally other purposes, and just coincidentally also add in content solely for the purpose of dude boners, that's an issue.
But it's nonsense. No one is demonizing anything. It's kind if ridiculous that the very fact that someone says one type of portrayal is not to their taste or problematic amounts to demonization is kind of terrifying.
I said perception of demonization, and I've encountered some people who definitely push their critique to that point, though nobody in this thread has done anything of the kind. My point is that I think Bayonet has met the same kind of people and that's the lens he sees the world (Or rather, feminist critique) through.
I said perception of demonization, and I've encountered some people who definitely push their critique to that point, though nobody in this thread has done anything of the kind. My point is that I think Bayonet has met the same kind of people and that's the lens he sees the world (Or rather, feminist critique) through.
I didn't mean to suggest that I was ascribing that view to you. Just expressing, I guess, existential terror at the idea that someone could look at this set of facts and find it to be "demonization"? There's certainly feminist critique that amounts to something along those lines, but it's not "Hey, I think TW3 has an issue with how it portrays women."
This bothers me. Buff and muscular men are power fantasies for some men. There is a lot of research to show that this can create serious body imagine issues for men. That there are lots of cultural dynamics that seriously affect self-image for women does not simply turn around and cutr the negative effects of similar portrayals for men.
I find the argument "buff men are a power fantasy for men and have nothing to do with what women like!" very naive. As in, I think it comes across as a lack of understanding of how men think. Of course, I have yet to be appointed spokeperson for all men everywhere, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think I'm entirely wrong here.
Let's grant the point that male characters are designed that way for the benefit of men. Why would men want to look like that? Why do men spend hours at the gym or work out every day when they would rather be playing video games or whatever? I'd daresay that in most cases, it's to get laid, and that's the case whether they want women raining on them like it's National Sex Day or they just want the attention of a particular person. Hell, it's even the case if they're gay and looking for partners.
So the truth is, tough and muscular men are designed with a female audience in mind, even if it is more of what men think women like (neither is a monolithic group, I should say, though that is obvious).
TW3 is not meant to be a straight dude dating sim. This is where the disconnect comes in. There's nothing wrong with creating super-sexualized products to give dudes boners. But people create works for totally other purposes, and just coincidentally also add in content solely for the purpose of dude boners, that's an issue.
Well, I believe a game is allowed to have more than one purpose at the same time. Creators of any type of art or media are bound to produce what they find appealing. I'm fairly positive the people at CDPR are mostly straight dudes.
Have you noticed something curious? Almost every romance option for straight guys in Bioware games neatly falls into one of three categories: shy insecure girl, cold and arrogant bad girl, and tough, self-righteous warrior woman. Either the people in the writing pit have very pervasive fetishes or they have a very strange (and in my mind kind of insulting) idea of what guys find appealing. Mostly speaking about the first two archetypes here, even though the third is not really my cup of tea either.
And know why I find the latest iteration of Betty and Veronica much more objectionable than scantily clad women? The latter only assumes I like sex; duh. The former seems to be implying that as a man, of course I want either a submissive, virginal, innocent girl who worships the very ground I stand on or a sexy ice queen who will melt at the flame of my romance. Sigh.
But hey, it's a game. I play it for fun. The day I get seriously worked up over a game, good God, kill me. Anyone can play at being offended, but I'm not sure why it's such a fun game. I find it so very exhausting.
I didn't mean to suggest that I was ascribing that view to you. Just expressing, I guess, existential terror at the idea that someone could look at this set of facts and find it to be "demonization"? There's certainly feminist critique that amounts to something along those lines, but it's not "Hey, I think TW3 has an issue with how it portrays women."
I think its more a projection of all his hangups on the issue than a reaction to what's really being said.
How does a thread about how much better DA could have been without last gen consoles become an argument about the merits of modern feminism and various feminist theories? Oh yeah, it's the internet. 
I don't think we would have seen a city similar to what we saw in TW3 though, Bioware just doesn't seem to be that good at cities. There are plenty of last gen games with cities in them that have more life than Val Royaux. Would not having to make it compatible with last gen consoles mean that we would have gotten a load of actually interesting side quests, a longer main story line and more choices in general? Maybe, but I thought the cut content was cut because of time restraints and the fact that they added in stuff like playable races at a later stage.
As for Witcher 3 comparisons, I liked both games probably about the same. The Witcher 3 is superior in many ways and that is obvious but I like the Dragon Age series a lot more so I ended up enjoying Inquisition more despite that.
Best example would be Quiet in MGS5. Sure, there's a really good reason for why she has to go practically naked all the time, but you know they came up with the reason after "designing" the "costume".
Include text with pictures, please and thanks!
Yes. Plus, the feeble minded BSN has an unhealthy obsession with these topics.How does a thread about how much better DA could have been without last gen consoles become an argument about the merits of modern feminism and various feminist theories? Oh yeah, it's the internet.
Yes. Plus, the feeble minded BSN has an unhealthy obsession with these topics.
Create a constructive topic that legit discusses the game? Sure, but within a few hours it gets buried and pretty much unheard of again.
Create a topic that has the key words "Gender" or "sexuality"? I can guarantee it will accumulate 20 pages within an hour. Albeit, 20 pages of pseudo intellectual garbage.
My thread does not have gender or sexuality in the title 
My thread does not have gender or sexuality in the title
This bothers me. Buff and muscular men are power fantasies for some men. There is a lot of research to show that this can create serious body imagine issues for men. That there are lots of cultural dynamics that seriously affect self-image for women does not simply turn around and cutr the negative effects of similar portrayals for men.
Right, I said in an earlier post I also think all men being portrayed like that is an issue. But it's not the game trying to appeal to women.
Right, I said in an earlier post I also think all men being portrayed like that is an issue. But it's not the game trying to appeal to women.
I really feel that if Bioware hadn't been hamstrung by having to develop for the older consoles, they could have spent more time on flushing out things they wanted to do with Inquisition.
I mean, look at how mad a lot of developers are with the Playstation 4 Neo. They're mad because that just means one more console they have to build for. I can sorta understand that.
I think its more a projection of all his hangups on the issue than a reaction to what's really being said.
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