61 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

I'm trying to understand how the surviving Warden's relationship with Morrigan is supposed to work.

If you ask her about it, Morrigan says "he is a good father and a good partner", that " Kieran misses him greatly" and they will rejoin him after everything is over.

When does a Grey Warden find the time to raise a child? In fact, how could she accompany the HoF with Kieran as it is implied? Do they stop at a village and wait for him to return from his last assignment?

[thats1evildude]

Well, the answer is that he basically ditches his responsibilities as a Warden.

[Jedimaster88]

Well, the answer is that he basically ditches his responsibilities as a Warden.

 

Thats what I think as well. I want to imagine that at least in my warden´s case, he just grew tired of all the warden stuff especially since the blight was over and Ferelden was full of capable wardens once more. Let someone else carry the torch etc. and he can finally be with the people that matter most to him.

[Battlebloodmage]

He skype Kieran every day and send Morrigan child support. More than most dads do for their kids nowadays. 

[Qun00]

He skype Kieran every day and send Morrigan child support. More than most dads do to their kids nowadays.

And pretty much the most a Grey Warden realistically can do.

As you know, Oghren has a child in Awakening. If encouraged by the Warden-Commander, he will send letters regularly and visit his family from time to time. But that's it. He doesn't live with them or help raise the kid.

[Ghost Gal]

If he went through the Eluvian to be with Morrigan and their child, then it's likely he abandoned his old life and responsibilities with the Grey Wardens to go with her, then went to find a Cure to the Calling so he can live longer with his maybe-wife and child. Keep up.

[The Ascendant]

If he went through the Eluvian to be with Morrigan and their child, then it's likely he abandoned his old life and responsibilities with the Grey Wardens to go with her, then went to find a Cure to the Calling so he can live longer with his maybe-wife and child. Keep up.

The most likely outcome. His adventuring days are mostly over. Hopefully he succeeds in his quest.

[Sifr]

According to the novel "Last Flight", there is a new Warden-Commander of Ferelden in 9:42. The best way that I can see that Bioware might chose to reconcile this and the Warden's fate in our different worldstates would be to say that;

 

If the Warden is dead, the Orlesian Warden was the Warden-Commander from Awakening until they went to their Calling in 9:42.

 

If the Warden is alive, they abdicated their position as Warden-Commander in 9:42 to focus on finding a cure for the Calling.

 

I think most people who kept Warden alive probably wouldn't mind that as the explanation for why there's might be a new Warden-Commander in Ferelden going forward. I personally would far prefer the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor to remain alive, but kept busy doing various stuff offscreen.

 

As for who the new Commander in Ferelden might be, I kind of hope it might be Nathaniel and the writers cementing his Awakening recruitment as the default canon, much like they did with Anders and Justice in DA2.

[Qun00]

According to the novel "Last Flight", there is a new Warden-Commander of Ferelden in 9:42. The best way that I can see that Bioware might chose to reconcile this and the Warden's fate in our different worldstates would be to say that;

If the Warden is dead, the Orlesian Warden was the Warden-Commander from Awakening until they went to their Calling in 9:42.

If the Warden is alive, they abdicated their position as Warden-Commander in 9:42 to focus on finding a cure for the Calling.

I think most people who kept Warden alive probably wouldn't mind that as the explanation for why there's might be a new Warden-Commander in Ferelden going forward. I personally would far prefer the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor to remain alive, but kept busy doing various stuff offscreen.

As for who the new Commander in Ferelden might be, I kind of hope it might be Nathaniel and the writers cementing his Awakening recruitment as the default canon, much like they did with Anders and Justice in DA2.

You should consider that the novels are written with the default world state in mind. The HoF is dead and never became Warden-Commander.

[Sifr]

You should consider that the novels are written with the default world state in mind. The HoF is dead and never became Warden-Commander.

 

While Bioware writes the novels and comics with a default canon in mind, we know that this doesn't stop those events having happened in the various worldstates we import into the game that might conflict with them.

 

For instance, the writers chose to have a Warden Alistair in Inqusition allude to meeting his father in the Fade, an event that happened in "Until We Sleep" that took place in the default canon where he was the King of Ferelden instead.

 

It does therefore seem that the devs do at least factor in how the default canon applies to the various worldstates they've allowed to exist in the games, even though they do try to avoid highlighting obvious continuity snarls.

 

While the default canon is that the Warden is dead, the novels actually seem to leave their race, gender and fate unknown as it's never brought up when the characters happen to talk about them (as far as I'm aware). Same with the events of Kirkwall in Asunder, where they avoid mentioning the gender or what side Hawke eventually picked.

 

(Just to make clear, I'm not one of those who refuses to admit the Warden might be dead... I just enjoy figuring out the myriad ways that would reconcile the nebulous worldstates with the canon of the novels and comics)

[bzombo]

According to the novel "Last Flight", there is a new Warden-Commander of Ferelden in 9:42. The best way that I can see that Bioware might chose to reconcile this and the Warden's fate in our different worldstates would be to say that;

 

If the Warden is dead, the Orlesian Warden was the Warden-Commander from Awakening until they went to their Calling in 9:42.

 

If the Warden is alive, they abdicated their position as Warden-Commander in 9:42 to focus on finding a cure for the Calling.

 

I think most people who kept Warden alive probably wouldn't mind that as the explanation for why there's might be a new Warden-Commander in Ferelden going forward. I personally would far prefer the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor to remain alive, but kept busy doing various stuff offscreen.

 

As for who the new Commander in Ferelden might be, I kind of hope it might be Nathaniel and the writers cementing his Awakening recruitment as the default canon, much like they did with Anders and Justice in DA2.

I hate what they did with Justice. Such a great character turned into crap.

[Qun00]

Well, can you quote it? I haven't the patience to search through the pages of the novel.

[Sifr]

Well, can you quote it? I haven't the patience to search through the pages of the novel.

 

Early in TME, Celene refers to the events of Broken Circle, albeit without stating what the HoF actually ended doing in the end.

 

"I understand during the last Blight, the Circle tower in Ferelden was nearly lost when one of the senior mages became an abomination. After killing the creatures, the Hero of Ferelden was forced to decide on the spot whether to kill every remaining mage in the tower."

 

Celene subsequently makes comment about having known Marjolaine and that "I heard she met an unfortunate end in Ferelden", implying that the HoF and Leliana decide to confront and kill her in the novel's canon. (Although the statement is ambiguous enough that Marjolaine might have died via some other means, such as when the Darkspawn attacked Denerim)

 

In Asunder, Leliana makes reference a points to having worked with elves before and during her time with the Hero of Ferelden, although this does not clarify if the HoF was themselves an elf, she was referring to Zevran, potentially recruiting the Dalish, or even prior to meeting the HoF when she worked with Sketch.

 

Wynne also mentions the Warden gave her a red staff that Evangeline ended up breaking (possibly the corrupted one from Return to Ostagar), with the implication that she fears Wynne is considering using this staff to perform forbidden magic in order to jailbreak Rhys.

 

There's probably a bunch more I'm forgetting, but we do see that they write their mentions of the HoF (and Hawke) to be fairly vague on the details, perhaps to allow the reader to mentally insert "their" Warden or Hawke into the story.

[Qun00]

I meant something about the Warden-Commander specifically. I just re-read the 9:42 Dragon chapters and they only talk about griffons.

In fact... the entirety of the Last Flight is just griffons, griffons, griffons. Garahel barely is the protagonist there. I felt like Wynne trying to tell a story to the Warden.

Sorry, I got a little carried away.

[YourFunnyUncle]

If he went through the Eluvian to be with Morrigan and their child, then it's likely he abandoned his old life and responsibilities with the Grey Wardens to go with her, then went to find a Cure to the Calling so he can live longer with his maybe-wife and child. Keep up.

Yeah. I'd say that stepping through a magic mirror with your apostate lover is a fairly good indicator that you're abandoning your old life...

[Sifr]

I meant something about the Warden-Commander specifically. I just re-read the 9:42 Dragon chapters and they only talk about griffons.

In fact... the entirety of the Last Flight is just griffons, griffons, griffons. Garahel barely is the protagonist there. I felt like Wynne trying to tell a story to the Warden.

Sorry, I got a little carried away.

 

Top of page 102;

 

"Valya cracked the wax seal with her thumbnail and opened the folded packet. She scanned the first few lines and shook her head with a rueful smile. The chamberlain had been right. "The new Warden-Commander respectfully request a suppy of lyrium, arms and armour to replace some lost after an encounter with... ah, demon-possessed trees. On fire. There is a list here of specific requests.""

 

The actual date the new Warden-Commander was appointed was in 9:41, I forgot that the novel starts in that year and ends in 9:42. My bad, that's probably why you didn't find it in the 9:42 chapters.

[Qun00]

Must've been at the very end of 9:41, then. The HoF still signs that one letter as Warden-Commander of Ferelden.

EDIT: Hmm... but what about this note from Trespasser's epilogue?

"Not Divine, Warden romance

Leliana continued her romantic affair with the Hero of Ferelden, even though their respective responsibilities often kept them/the two women apart."

[Illyria]

While Bioware writes the novels and comics with a default canon in mind, we know that this doesn't stop those events having happened in the various worldstates we import into the game that might conflict with them.

 

For instance, the writers chose to have a Warden Alistair in Inqusition allude to meeting his father in the Fade, an event that happened in "Until We Sleep" that took place in the default canon where he was the King of Ferelden instead.

 

It does therefore seem that the devs do at least factor in how the default canon applies to the various worldstates they've allowed to exist in the games, even though they do try to avoid highlighting obvious continuity snarls.

 

While the default canon is that the Warden is dead, the novels actually seem to leave their race, gender and fate unknown as it's never brought up when the characters happen to talk about them (as far as I'm aware). Same with the events of Kirkwall in Asunder, where they avoid mentioning the gender or what side Hawke eventually picked.

 

(Just to make clear, I'm not one of those who refuses to admit the Warden might be dead... I just enjoy figuring out the myriad ways that would reconcile the nebulous worldstates with the canon of the novels and comics)

 

What's quite interesting about this is that the comics seem to run on a slightly different 'BW Canon' than the novels and default worldstate, since Alistair appears to have done the Dark Ritual in the comics, and slept with Isabela.  Which means that he romanced the warden and she's still alive.

[Qun00]

I don't think the moment you're referring to means Alistair actually did the DR, only that it was offered or that he heard about it.

Just look at how disgusted he was at Yavanna's ritual when it reminded him of Morrigan's. Do you think he would go through that if the very idea pisses him off?

[Illyria]

I don't think the moment you're referring to means Alistair actually did the DR, only that it was offered or that he heard about it.

Just look at how disgusted he was at Yavanna's ritual when it reminded him of Morrigan's. Do you think he would go through that if the very idea pisses him off?

 

I'll have to re-read the comics more carefully to see.  My impression had been he ws disgusted because it reminded him of what he'd done with Morrigan (and this is an Alistair who is older, and less willing to be pushed around).  But I might be wrong.  Or Gaider left it ambiguous on purpose.

[Sifr]

Why do I feel like the issue of canon in Dragon Age reminds me so much of this fun conversation from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

 

Bashir: What I want to know is of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?

Garak: My dear doctor, they're all  true.

Bashir: Even the lies?

Garak: Especially  the lies.

 

(Varric and Iron Bull Greatly Approve) 

[Tishina]

How can it be cannon that the HoF is dead if Leliana and Cassandra mention looking for him/her as well as Hawke at the end of DA2? Or does that line change based on a DAO playthrough?

[nightscrawl]

For instance, the writers chose to have a Warden Alistair in Inqusition allude to meeting his father in the Fade, an event that happened in "Until We Sleep" that took place in the default canon where he was the King of Ferelden instead.

Really? That's awesome! I love that they changed it a bit to maintain that Alistair played out those events.

[nightscrawl]

What's quite interesting about this is that the comics seem to run on a slightly different 'BW Canon' than the novels and default worldstate, since Alistair appears to have done the Dark Ritual in the comics, and slept with Isabela.  Which means that he romanced the warden and she's still alive.

I don't think the moment you're referring to means Alistair actually did the DR, only that it was offered or that he heard about it.

Just look at how disgusted he was at Yavanna's ritual when it reminded him of Morrigan's. Do you think he would go through that if the very idea pisses him off?

I'll have to re-read the comics more carefully to see.  My impression had been he ws disgusted because it reminded him of what he'd done with Morrigan (and this is an Alistair who is older, and less willing to be pushed around).  But I might be wrong.  Or Gaider left it ambiguous on purpose.

Damn, I'll definitely have to reread that one. I don't remember either of those references. It's implied that he slept with Isabela? Are you sure she wasn't being, you know... Isabela?

Other than Alistair being king, I was under the impression that it was handled very well when I read it. You didn't know if the Warden was alive or dead, their gender, whether they romanced him, or whether they were still together*. That is the impression I got when I read it the first time, and was pleased that they went that route.

 

Your perception not only rules in the scenarios that you listed, but also rules out a whole ton of other scenarios, including the existence of the male Warden. Bioware has typically been really careful with that sort of thing in their ancillary materials. Even though I have a living female warden that romanced Alistair, made him king, did the DR (we did not have a threesome with Isabela), I'd be disappointed if this was the case. I'd much rather it be ambiguous for everyone, or at least as many people as possible, given certain constraints.


* However, the final panels seem to rule out the Cousland Queen, but not necessarily since it's not explicit. Even though he doesn't want to be king, it just seems like he would have been a bit different if there was that sort of support.

[Andromelek]

Damn, I'll definitely have to reread that one. I don't remember either of those references. It's implied that he slept with Isabela? Are you sure she wasn't being, you know... Isabela?
Other than Alistair being king, I was under the impression that it was handled very well when I read it. You didn't know if the Warden was alive or dead, their gender, whether they romanced him, or whether they were still together*. That is the impression I got when I read it the first time, and was pleased that they went that route.

Your perception not only rules in the scenarios that you listed, but also rules out a whole ton of other scenarios, including the existence of the male Warden. Bioware has typically been really careful with that sort of thing in their ancillary materials. Even though I have a living female warden that romanced Alistair, made him king, did the DR (we did not have a threesome with Isabela), I'd be disappointed if this was the case. I'd much rather it be ambiguous for everyone, or at least as many people as possible, given certain constraints.
* However, the final panels seem to rule out the Cousland Queen, but not necessarily since it's not explicit. Even though he doesn't want to be king, it just seems like he would have been a bit different if there was that sort of support.

I think they mean a side note of Gaider, where he says "In my mind this is the Alistair who made the Dark Ritual with Morrigan" or some crap like that, I don't remember, I have digital comics, not the library edition.