52 Antworten in diesem Thema

[kalasaurus]

Liara does come off as pretty cold and distant until the attack on Chronos.  She calls Shepard a "friend" a couple times before that (like in the time capsule scene), which bothered me a bit.

 

IIRC, the romance with Garrus (and maybe?) Tali pretty much jumps in and doesn't have moments of "friendzoning", though they do check with Shepard a couple times if it's "OK" for them to continue their romance.  I guess the difference between them and Liara is that the romance checkpoints feel more fluid and not like they're starting all over from the beginning.

[ZipZap2000]

Liara does come off as pretty cold and distant until the attack on Chronos. She calls Shepard a "friend" a couple times before that (like in the time capsule scene), which bothered me a bit.

IIRC, the romance with Garrus (and maybe?) Tali pretty much jumps in and doesn't have moments of "friendzoning", though they do check with Shepard a couple times if it's "OK" for them to continue their romance. I guess the difference between them and Liara is that the romance checkpoints feel more fluid and not like they're starting all over from the beginning.

Agreed.


At one point Tali's romance descends into high level flirting during the dreadnought mission. So much so that Ashley asks them to stop.

That's literally straight after she comes aboard.

[aoibhealfae]

I'd admit, it is kinda odd considering all the content and scenes dedicated to Liara in ME3 (more than all LI individually) and some of the scene was 'enhanced' by LotSB lock-in. I never quite understand why she still need a Presidium lock-in scene after the Citadel Coup when you have her since Mars. Then again, I thought it was a sort of emotional manipulation. 

[PoliteHanar]

It isn't lazy game-making. I had the chance to converse with Liara's ME 3 writer and she said that it was basically a missed opportunity, and that if she were able to go back and revisit it, she'd have added an "if romanced" variation.

IIRC she also said she would have added an arm around her shoulder from Shep or something.

As for lazy or not I'll stay out of it.

 
 
From the writer's posts in topic "Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!":

• About the time capsule scene

[...]
Since she considers you a friend, too, even if you're in a romance, I thought that would be an appropriate cap to the scene. If I could go back, I don't know that I would've changed the line, but I might've asked my cine designer if we could get her head on Shepard's shoulder or a similar nod to the romance.

Yeah. I wrote this earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating: The time-capsule scene has no romance split per se. The idea was that if your Shepard and Liara are in a relationship they consider each other friends as well as lovers.

I normally wouldn't clarify so much, but it seems to have caused worries that it's a bug. Not a bug - just somewhere it seems I really should have done a romance/no-romance split (or at least avoided the word "friend").

(Edited to fix a ridiculous typo...)

• About the lock-in scene

[...]
You can still decide to be with someone else up until that point (even if you tell Liara you want to rekindle your relationship in that first conversation in her office...) so we needed a way to definitively communicate to the player "OK, listen, this is absolutely it for choosing your one true romance". I went for the most obvious paraphrase possible to avoid any confusion over whether this was the moment you became a serious, together-forever item.

[...]

[ZipZap2000]

<p>



From the writer's posts in topic "Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!":

• About the time capsule scene

• About the lock-in scene

That was the one.

Cheers.

[Monica21]

I'm kind of curious why Matriach Aethyta referred to me as Liara's girlfriend on the Citadel. This was not long after I gave the bottle of whiskey to Kaidan.

[PoliteHanar]

I'm kind of curious why Matriach Aethyta referred to me as Liara's girlfriend on the Citadel. This was not long after I gave the bottle of whiskey to Kaidan.

 

Matriarch Aethyta calls Shepard Liara's boy/girlfriend if romance points >= 4.
So don't be too nice to Liara if you don't like to be her "girlfriend". 
 
BTW Kaidan wants 6 romance points, but the whiskey already gives 2.
Points... how romantic.

[kalasaurus]

I'm guessing it's difficult to romance/not shoot Ash or Kaidan without an import?  I did a non-imported ME3 playthrough once shortly after the game's release.  I remember how much of a disaster the Coup was, and for *some reason* Kaidan still believed Shepard... despite how Udina  framed Shepard for murdering the Salarian Counselor, and convinced the (new) Council that Shepard was working for Cerberus.

[Monica21]

Points... how romantic.

Is that not how it's supposed to work? I give three points for each bottle of wine.

[themikefest]

I'm guessing it's difficult to romance/not shoot Ash or Kaidan without an import?

Its very easy. I romanced Ashley with a default playthrough.

 

I just talked to her in the hospital and got her to believe Udina was the bad guy. After that, I brought her back on the ship and chose the dialogue that would lead to a relationship.

[Mordokai]

Liara's romance/friendship suffers somewhat. That can be attributed to multiple points.

 

Before ME3, Liara has been accused of being creepy stalker. Personal opinion aside, I think devs decided to give player a choice in the third game. Sadly, the only option they had was to give it to the player via character herself. Time constraints factoring in, they erred on side of caution and thusly, made Liara look a little retarded with all the friendzoning. I agree that, from a character viewpoint, it doesn't make much sense, but pandering to lowest common denominator, it *kinda* makes sense. Sadly, by doing this, they angered Liara fans, since you know... it makes no ****** sense. As for Liara haters, well... there's just no pleasing some people, is there?

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Don't blame the character for retarded decisions of game devs.

[Nicholas_]

You gotta stop being a little ****** and tell her what she wants to hear.

 

"Liara, I want you, I want you right here, right now, I want to pin your legs behind your ears and make love to you on every object on the Normandy".

 

This could have been you and her but you were playing games, I salute Liara for that.

[kalasaurus]

Liara's romance/friendship suffers somewhat. That can be attributed to multiple points.

 

Before ME3, Liara has been accused of being creepy stalker. Personal opinion aside, I think devs decided to give player a choice in the third game. Sadly, the only option they had was to give it to the player via character herself. Time constraints factoring in, they erred on side of caution and thusly, made Liara look a little retarded with all the friendzoning. I agree that, from a character viewpoint, it doesn't make much sense, but pandering to lowest common denominator, it *kinda* makes sense. Sadly, by doing this, they angered Liara fans, since you know... it makes no ****** sense. As for Liara haters, well... there's just no pleasing some people, is there?

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Don't blame the character for retarded decisions of game devs.

 

I also think that part of the reason why the "friendzoning" happens is because they wanted to make Liara's romance accessible for new players too, and so those who imported her romance from ME1-ME2 suffered since a lot of the same lines are shared for a new game/non-romanced Liara and romanced.  Time constraints probably factored into that too.

[PoliteHanar]

I'm guessing it's difficult to romance/not shoot Ash or Kaidan without an import?  I did a non-imported ME3 playthrough once shortly after the game's release.  I remember how much of a disaster the Coup was, and for *some reason* Kaidan still believed Shepard... despite how Udina  framed Shepard for murdering the Salarian Counselor, and convinced the (new) Council that Shepard was working for Cerberus.

 

Paragon Shepard has no trouble convincing the VS to stand down, even without import.
Romance can be trickier; but the present should seal the deal.

In this one's current PT (no import), Shepard did not buy the whiskey and did not visit unconscious Kaidan. Post-coup and only 5 points so far... but there's still an opportunity.

 

 

Is that not how it's supposed to work? I give three points for each bottle of wine.

 

This one does not know how it's supposed to work. Maybe it should take classes with Nicholas_ .

[Jukaga]

Agreed.


At one point Tali's romance descends into high level flirting during the dreadnought mission. So much so that Ashley asks them to stop.

That's literally straight after she comes aboard.

 

Tali's relationship is the most fun to play through, not necessarily the best as that's in the eye of the beholder but no one can deny that it seems to get more fun scenes and more acknowledgement from the rest of the squad.

 

-damn it, now I want to play a ME3 Talimance run. Except it takes FOREVER to get to Rannoch. Maybe next month.

[ZipZap2000]

Is that not how it's supposed to work? I give three points for each bottle of wine.

I take points away for poor performance in the wine department.

[aoibhealfae]

I still got the romance with Kaidan without the whiskey but this happen if Shepard is faithful to him. Frankly, it only added a couple of lines and isn't necessary at all. You only need to visit him thrice at the hospital so he know you're not a dick. Still, it was more straightforward than choosing Ashley's gift - pick one thing that she'll love the most, everything else will ****** her off. Was gifting women were that complicated? Guys, let her decide what she wants; gift certificates.

 

Much like her inconsistent character arcs, Liara romance have always been awkwardly done from the start. In ME1, she damsel in distress you rescue and you get her as a reward. In ME2, she was dismissive and her entire arcs was shoved into a DLC. Her character development was expanded in the comics rather than within the game itself. But if you notice it; the talk about how Presidium is beautiful, the talk about mourning her mother, the talk about being busy and working, her coldness and your persistence to make her open up to you; It was a rewrite. Much of her conversations in ME3 was the ones you should have with her in ME1. You're basically restarting a romance with her rather than resuming a romance. That's why it felt off.

 

For lesser romances, the writers was given a set amount of lines and scenes and they crammed everything inside the allotted minutes and paraphrase the lines as much as they can. There's no chance for them being given a do-over. So, citing lack of time for the only one major romance to a character who they gave the attention the most, is a cop out.

[PoliteHanar]

I still got the romance with Kaidan without the whiskey but this happen if Shepard is faithful to him. Frankly, it only added a couple of lines and isn't necessary at all. You only need to visit him thrice at the hospital so he know you're not a dick. Still, it was more straightforward than choosing Ashley's gift - pick one thing that she'll love the most, everything else will ****** her off. Was gifting women were that complicated? Guys, let her decide what she wants; gift certificates.

 

Much like her inconsistent character arcs, Liara romance have always been awkwardly done from the start. In ME1, she damsel in distress you rescue and you get her as a reward. In ME2, she was dismissive and her entire arcs was shoved into a DLC. Her character development was expanded in the comics rather than within the game itself. But if you notice it; the talk about how Presidium is beautiful, the talk about mourning her mother, the talk about being busy and working, her coldness and your persistence to make her open up to you; It was a rewrite. Much of her conversations in ME3 was the ones you should have with her in ME1. You're basically restarting a romance with her rather than resuming a romance. That's why it felt off.

 

For lesser romances, the writers was given a set amount of lines and scenes and they crammed everything inside the allotted minutes and paraphrase the lines as much as they can. There's no chance for them being given a do-over. So, citing lack of time for the only one major romance to a character who they gave the attention the most, is a cop out.

 

Similar to Liara's case, importing a romance with Kaidan gives a faithful Shepard 4 romance points.
As Kaidan's lock-in later requires 6 points, this facilitates continuation of the relationship.
Admittedly, this one has had only little experience with Ashley and her gift preference.

Uhm... back on-topic:
This one agrees with the rest of aoibhealfae'a post.

[Livi14]

I always felt that romancing Liara for the first time in ME3 felt more natural than importing a save where you romanced her in all games. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would get romantically involved with Shepard so quickly in ME1, the relationship is built on a solid foundation of shared experiences and companionship, and the friendship lines in ME3 are fitting.

[jtav]

Liara's ME3 content is very odd. There's a lot of mandatory intimacy if you don't romance her but she seems almost indifferent until Chronos if you do. I blame her having to pull double duty as a new and imported romance.

[von uber]

Liara's ME3 content is very odd. There's a lot of mandatory intimacy if you don't romance her but she seems almost indifferent until Chronos if you do. I blame her having to pull double duty as a new and imported romance.

 

And also only guaranteed ME1/ME2 character who can be alive... mainly due to her getting shafted in ME2.

[ZipZap2000]

And also only guaranteed ME1/ME2 character who can be alive... mainly due to her getting shafted in ME2.

This.

She's the only ME1 character besides Joker that cant die until the absolute last minute and even then only under the worst possible circumstances.


As far as the rest of the conversation in the thread. If you don't have LOTSB Liara really doesn't hit her strides as a character until 3 anyway. I don't think that the character itself was greatly done until LOTSB gave her depth. Until then she was almost cartoonish.

LOTSB is where the romance starts to take on a life of its own for me and the step back in 3 is a little odd but bearable.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Liara's romance is a massive reaffirmation fest. Go with Tali or Garrus.

[ZipZap2000]

Liara's romance is a massive reaffirmation fest. Go with Tali or Garrus.

So you reject the chick with tentacles and exchange her for a sea monster or deep sea diving helmet.

Wonderful.

[The One True Nobody]

There are earlier Liara scenes and conversations that make it clear she's still being romanced, but one of the awkward elements of ME3 are the occasional bouts of relationship amnesia characters suffer. I think you need mods to completely fix it, I know for sure that BackOff addresses the issue.