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[Big I]

The only ones that shouldn't last are a Divine Leliana where you never did her loyalty mission, and a Divine Vivienne where she hates the Inquisitor. Both are portrayed as fracturing the Chantry. Even then, if Bioware wrote them as eventually getting over their initial rough patch and calming things down I'd buy it.

 

All other Divines are portrayed as being very powerful and able to enforce their will. And once the changes are made it'll be difficult to go back. Will the next Divine cast out all of Leliana's male, dwarf and elf priests? Or stop Vivienne's mages from being as powerful?

 

That said, Bioware has shown a reluctance to grapple with Chantry reform in any meanigful story sense. For example, the discovery of Haven should have led to a complete re-examination of the Chant of Light. The Orlesian and Tevinter chantries were formed centuries after Andraste's death, but the Disciples of Andraste represented an unbroken line of worship from the Exalted March until the present, watched over by one of her own disciples made immortal by his faith and devotion.

 

The most important thing about Haven was not the Urn, but it's history. Maferath, Shartan and Hessarian are all present in the Gauntlet, despite their vilification. Andraste's mother received prophetic dreams about her daughter, and according to her best friend Andraste first heard the Maker when she was a child. Haven even had male priests, like Tevinter. All of that should have at least had people scratching their heads about the modern Chant, but come 9:41/42 nothing has changed. There's an Andrastian elf at Haven who's never even heard of Shartan ffs.

 

Given that, I doubt Bioware will ever show any Chantry reform on screen.

[Terodil]

DA4 will probably start with Solas forgetting about his plans and opening a road side taco stand.

I've never used a sig on here before but you're really tempting me with this. What an awesome prophecy. /bow

While I would wish for reforms to take (most of my inquisitors go for Leliana despite concerns regarding the speed of change), I completely agree with Ash Wind: It's not gonna happen.

I mean, DA:O could/should have helped mages tremendously if a mage HoF sacrificed him-/herself to end the Blight. Even without a sacrifice, this heroic deed should have lessened the general dislike or even hatred against mages. The opposite happened in DA:KW. DA:KW should have changed how the general populace regards templars (can be just as bad, if not worse, than mages), but instead DA:I sees templars being the 'champions of the people' (as the game repeatedly rubs it in your face) and mages as the boogeymen. DA:I, in fact, shows no changes whatsoever depending on whether the Inquisitor is Dalish, mage, or whatever. Hell the most prominent members of the original inquisition were mages and elves to boot -- and nothing of it stuck.

I'm beginning to think that Bioware is spinning a more deviously mirrored tale than we previously believed. Just like DA:KW could be said to be about the impotence of the hero Hawke to change anything, the entire DA series could be about the impotence of the player to change anything.

[Iadro]

I mean, DA:O could/should have helped mages tremendously if a mage HoF sacrificed him-/herself to end the Blight. Even without a sacrifice, this heroic deed should have lessened the general dislike or even hatred against mages. The opposite happened in DA:KW. DA:KW should have changed how the general populace regards templars (can be just as bad, if not worse, than mages), but instead DA:I sees templars being the 'champions of the people' (as the game repeatedly rubs it in your face) and mages as the boogeymen.

 

To quote the wise Zevran:

 

"That is precisely it." 

 

Rubbing it in our faces is precisely it. The game and its writers try to create some sort of moral quandary when... I think a major "canon" reason to excuse the lack of changes between Inquisition and the next game will undoubtedly be the Chantry.

 

Because no matter what you do or how you play your Inquisitor, your actions directly result in returning Southern Thedas to the status quo. I mean, Cassandra may as well tell you that as the mission statement. Is the Chantry held properly held accountable in game? Do they or Orlais ever face trial for the numerous groups and peoples they've terrorized over the centuries? Will the common people of Thedas be able to even differentiate between the Inquisition and another arm of the Chantry? I think not.

 

Therefore the Chantry has the greatest stake in maintaining the status quo, in keeping the elves marginalized and villainized, in forever holding the threat of an Exalted March over everybody's heads. And at the end of the game, at the end of all the DLC, you can truly see things are returning back to the way it should be, for those people. Has the Dalish Inquisitor actually achieved anything in improving the lot of their countrymen? 

 

Not even a homeland this time. Oh, and btw, you're all slaves, actually. One doesn't have to hear the "LOL, stupid elves!!!11" in order to process the implications crowed endlessly about around these boards.

 

Let us not even talk about the mages, whom the writers have made as moustache-twirling villainous and stupid as possible in order to add fuel to the flames.  

[sim-ran]

The only ones that shouldn't last are a Divine Leliana where you never did her loyalty mission, and a Divine Vivienne where she hates the Inquisitor. Both are portrayed as fracturing the Chantry. Even then, if Bioware wrote them as eventually getting over their initial rough patch and calming things down I'd buy it.

All other Divines are portrayed as being very powerful and able to enforce their will. And once the changes are made it'll be difficult to go back. Will the next Divine cast out all of Leliana's male, dwarf and elf priests? Or stop Vivienne's mages from being as powerful?

That said, Bioware has shown a reluctance to grapple with Chantry reform in any meanigful story sense. For example, the discovery of Haven should have led to a complete re-examination of the Chant of Light. The Orlesian and Tevinter chantries were formed centuries after Andraste's death, but the Disciples of Andraste represented an unbroken line of worship from the Exalted March until the present, watched over by one of her own disciples made immortal by his faith and devotion.

The most important thing about Haven was not the Urn, but it's history. Maferath, Shartan and Hessarian are all present in the Gauntlet, despite their vilification. Andraste's mother received prophetic dreams about her daughter, and according to her best friend Andraste first heard the Maker when she was a child. Haven even had male priests, like Tevinter. All of that should have at least had people scratching their heads about the modern Chant, but come 9:41/42 nothing has changed. There's an Andrastian elf at Haven who's never even heard of Shartan ffs.

Given that, I doubt Bioware will ever show any Chantry reform on screen.

1) They were spirits, not the actual people.

2) They were all gone by the time the Chantry got to the Temple.

[sim-ran]

The only ones that shouldn't last are a Divine Leliana where you never did her loyalty mission, and a Divine Vivienne where she hates the Inquisitor. Both are portrayed as fracturing the Chantry. Even then, if Bioware wrote them as eventually getting over their initial rough patch and calming things down I'd buy it.

All other Divines are portrayed as being very powerful and able to enforce their will. And once the changes are made it'll be difficult to go back. Will the next Divine cast out all of Leliana's male, dwarf and elf priests? Or stop Vivienne's mages from being as powerful?

That said, Bioware has shown a reluctance to grapple with Chantry reform in any meanigful story sense. For example, the discovery of Haven should have led to a complete re-examination of the Chant of Light. The Orlesian and Tevinter chantries were formed centuries after Andraste's death, but the Disciples of Andraste represented an unbroken line of worship from the Exalted March until the present, watched over by one of her own disciples made immortal by his faith and devotion.

The most important thing about Haven was not the Urn, but it's history. Maferath, Shartan and Hessarian are all present in the Gauntlet, despite their vilification. Andraste's mother received prophetic dreams about her daughter, and according to her best friend Andraste first heard the Maker when she was a child. Haven even had male priests, like Tevinter. All of that should have at least had people scratching their heads about the modern Chant, but come 9:41/42 nothing has changed. There's an Andrastian elf at Haven who's never even heard of Shartan ffs.

Given that, I doubt Bioware will ever show any Chantry reform on screen.

1) They were spirits, not the actual people immortalised.

2) They were all gone by the time the Chantry got to the Temple.

[Big I]

1) They were spirits, not the actual people.

2) They were all gone by the time the Chantry got to the Temple.

 

Even if they were just spirit people and not the souls of the departed, it doesn't mean they're not accurate. There's a codex entry you get in Jaws of Hakkon which goes into the usefulness of spirits as historical sources.

 

And it doesn't matter that they were gone, records and accounts of their existence would remain. Kolgrim and his people all knew about the Guardian and who he was, and the Warden takes a small group of people through the Gauntlet. One of them can even be Leliana.

[Almostfaceman]

 

 

So I want to see what you guys think. Will these reforms be retracted once the Divine is dead? Or will they somehow last even after they have left the Sunburst Throne?

 

They will be homogenized so that the impact adds flavor to some characters and dialogue. The Reapers will still be too powerful and there will be no way we can win conventionally.