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[In Exile]

The BG and NWN games moved from area to area along the Sword Coast.  The same region of the same continent.  They didn't move from Toril to Krynn to Oerth.  Heck they didn't even go from Faerun to Maztica.  And they've got a better justification for doing this, because the magic system allows for such transportation.

 

And Dragon Age also sticks with the same continent.  When and if the franchise goes beyond that I think (hope) that it is done for reasons and with methods that aren't contrivances.

 

This is a completely meaningless and groundless distinction of BG and NWN. Each game abandoned continuity within the setting. To the extent they preserved the same protagonist, they let go of everything cultural and regional that was tied to them. 

[OdanUrr]

Thanks but no, thanks. If I want to see people running out of ideas, well, that's what Hollywood is for.

[KaiserShep]

Because nothing I've seen about MEA shows anything to be worth being optimistic about.  Even the whole "Andromeda" thing just shows a slash and burn mentality "We've destroyed this galaxy, time to move on to another!"

 

Show me something worth considering and I'll consider it.  But I'm not going to clap politely while watching the franchise continuing down the same path that p*ssed me off in the first place.

 

 

It seems to me that the only argument this really supports is burying the franchise and never touching it again, because anything they do, be it sequel, prequel/midquel/spin-off whatever is going to send that same message. But really, moving to Andromeda doesn't really say nearly as much about the direction of the franchise as some might suggest. Andromeda, Milky Way, Fornax cluster, what would really be the difference in the end without knowing more details? 

[RoboticWater]

Since game makers are nothing if not trend chasers you can bet the new Call of Duty will inspire a gaggle of shooters in space.

I don't know... Not that the opinions of reddit users are representative of the majority of players, but there doesn't seem to be that much enthusiasm for the new CoD. All that I've personally seen is either interest in a new CoD (the return of the series more than the new setting) or interest in the CoD 4 remaster. I just doubt that Infinite Warfare will set a trend.

 

More importantly, I wouldn't put CoD: Infinite Warfare in the "space opera" genre either. If it does start a trend, it'll probably be for more Titanfalls or BF2142s rather than Halos or Mass Effects. 

[KaiserShep]

Since game makers are nothing if not trend chasers you can bet the new Call of Duty will inspire a gaggle of shooters in space.

 

 

Regardless of how people may feel about this, I think that Mass Effect is more likely to inspire more space opera games than anything from the CoD franchise. 

[KirkyX]

I don't know... Not that the opinions of reddit users is representative of the majority of players, but there doesn't seem to be that much enthusiasm for the new CoD. All that I've personally seen is either interest in a new CoD (the return of the series more than the setting) or interest in the CoD 4 remaster. I just doubt that Infinite Warfare will set a trend.

 

More importantly, I wouldn't put CoD: Infinite Warfare in the "space opera" genre either. If it does start a trend, it'll probably be for more Titanfalls or BF2142s rather than Halos or Mass Effects. 

That was my initial assumption about Infinite Warfare's genre, too, based off of the trailer - lotta CoD-stuff with some more future tech and the occasional spaceship - but after reading stuff like this:

 

"The huge warship you'll be piloting, the Retribution, will also serve as your home, suggesting that Call of Duty could be borrowing Mass Effect-ish conversations with crewmates in its stated quest to deliver 'rich emotional arcs.'"

 

"Players will take command of a UNSA warship and fight the Settlement Defense Front on Earth and across the reaches of our solar system"

 

"Throughout the campaign, the Retribution will serve as a central hub for players between missions and as they travel to various destinations. The environment can be explored and will evolve as the events of the story unfold. From the Retribution, players can launch story missions or raids on enemy ships. During the campaign, players will also pilot an advanced space combat-ready fighter known as a Jackal in intense in-atmosphere and zero-g dogfights. What’s more, the experience has been designed to be seamless as you transition from fighting on the ground, into ships, and to and from the Retribution with few visible loading times."

 

 

I dunno. It's not gonna be Mass Effect, for sure, but it sounds like they're leaning far closer to space opera territory than I'd assumed.

[RoboticWater]

That was my initial assumption about Infinite Warfare's genre, too, based off of the trailer - lotta CoD-stuff with some more future tech and the occasional spaceship - but after reading stuff like this:

 

I dunno. It's not gonna be Mass Effect, for sure, but it sounds like they're leaning far closer to space opera territory than I'd assumed.

Interesting, though I would be more inclined to believe that the Retribution would work more like a glorified mission select screen (like BLOPS2/3) than a fully fleshed out interaction zone with companions. That just doesn't seem to make sense with CoD's non-stop action gameplay, but I've been wrong before. That atrocious Space Oddity cover didn't give me much confidence however.

 

Regardless, I'd like to see my space operas with aliens and such, but I'll take what I can get.

[KirkyX]

Interesting, though I would be more inclined to believe that the Retribution would work more like a glorified mission select screen (like BLOPS2/3) than a fully fleshed out interaction zone with companions. That just doesn't seem to make sense with CoD's non-stop action gameplay, but I've been wrong before. That atrocious Space Oddity cover didn't give me much confidence however.

 

Regardless, I'd like to see my space operas with aliens and such, but I'll take what I can get.

Hey, my ideal for space opera is - and probably always will be - TNG, and it's definitely not gonna be that. Still, I'm intrigued enough that, depending on how the reviews pan out, this might be the first CoD I play since... I think the first Black Ops?

[AlanC9]

Absolutely not. There was no grounding in the first game at all - "by video game standards" means nothing, because by actual standards, the series was arble-garble nonsense from a scientific POV from the very start. ME2 did... absolutely nothing to change any single part of that, even with the much reviled Lazarus project which is really thematically consistent with the miraculous, sweet-science-y magic they used to revive the Rachni Queen from the dead.
 
ME had lots of structural issues, but "grounded sci-fi" is not a word you can use to describe a bunch of telepathic space elves who can use the force asari.

It's funny.... even among ME fans, there's no real consensus about what ME actually was.

[straykat]

ME was about a badass survivor race who would be the Krogans done right.

 

Somewhere along the way, it lost track, and was about saving the old Krogans instead.

[Iakus]

This is a completely meaningless and groundless distinction of BG and NWN. Each game abandoned continuity within the setting. To the extent they preserved the same protagonist, they let go of everything cultural and regional that was tied to them. 

Did I not say they all take place in the same region?  The Sword Coast!

 

Continuity, sure, they jettisoned that almost completely.  But we seem to be running away from the Milky Way in MEA just so we can maintain our precious "continuity"

 

Continuity in Mass Effect seems to be of highly selective importance.  

[straykat]

But remember the whole "You compared Bioware to a genocidal sith lord" was other people strawmanning me.  I explained the comparison:  Because Bioware was great once and could be again.

 

Well, like I said, maybe their explanation will settle all my doubts and I'll spend six months in eager anticipation.  IT could happen.  I could also be struck by lightning or win the lottery.  But it can happen.  But I also think it's important that there are epople out there, disillusioned fans who remember the ME3 debacle and aren't going to be enchanted by shiny shooting mechanics and who are asking "Why should I trust you again?"

 

 

 

The BG and NWN games moved from area to area along the Sword Coast.  The same region of the same continent.  They didn't move from Toril to Krynn to Oerth.  Heck they didn't even go from Faerun to Maztica.  And they've got a better justification for doing this, because the magic system allows for such transportation.

 

And Dragon Age also sticks with the same continent.  When and if the franchise goes beyond that I think (hope) that it is done for reasons and with methods that aren't contrivances.

 

I don't know about "great" by themselves. They just had better settings. Star Wars and D&D. Almost everything fails in comparison... And it doesn't help that their writers (when it comes to original settings) are hand wavey and lack coherence or get motivated by fan demands. There's just no longterm value to that.

[KaiserShep]

ME was about a badass survivor race who would be the Krogans done right.

 

Somewhere along the way, it lost track, and was about saving the old Krogans instead.

 

 

I saw the genophage cure coming from a mile away, especially after Mordin's loyalty mission. 

[straykat]

I saw the genophage cure coming from a mile away, especially after Mordin's loyalty mission. 

 

That's only one mission. What gets lost is right across the road was Grunt's mission and the male Shaman... who didn't want to be cured and thought it was a good thing to keep destroying themselves. This was a positive in his eyes. And the whole point of Okeer's little speech.

 

This all got lost when there was no one left except Patrick Weekes. Totally ****** myopic.

[KaiserShep]

It doesn't really matter what those old krogan said (one of which we can outright criticize as being some sort of callous jerk before he dies). From the Virmire mission onward, it always seemed like the ME trilogy was building to some final resolution with the genophage. 

[straykat]

It doesn't really matter what those old krogan said (one of which we can outright criticize as being some sort of callous jerk before he dies). From the Virmire mission onward, it always seemed like the ME trilogy was building to some final resolution with the genophage. 

 

Yeah, if you feel compelled to swallow that hippy angle about how humans are this new race meant to be a bridge towards everyone's problem solving.

 

But they didn't have to be that at all at first. It could have very well been about competition and setting boundaries.

 

And it does matter what he said. That was by one of the best writers.. who was gone. Just like the guy who wrote the Geth. They had people with completely different agendas take both over.

[KaiserShep]

Well, if it means anything, that whole thing about humans being meant to be the bridge towards everyone's problem solving was pretty much Mass Effect's thing from the very start, so not much really changed there. 

[straykat]

Well, if it means anything, that whole thing about humans being meant to be the bridge towards everyone's problem solving was pretty much Mass Effect's thing from the very start, so not much really changed there. 

 

That was once a choice. And ME1 respected it up to the very end... down to whether or not to destroy the Council.

[KaiserShep]

In the grander scheme of even that one game, it was never a choice. Even if you sacrifice the Council, it's the humans that solve everyone's problems. But really, that human Council thing at the end was kind of a joke that shouldn't have made it into the game. 

[straykat]

Funnily, in an ironic way, Saren was the guy who cared about unifying everything. Look at his army. Geth, Krogan (with promises of cure), Asari, etc..

 

Then Shepard is almost (almost) railroaded to fill his shoes. Except it's "right" this time? Because why? Because it's nicer? I don't know..

[straykat]

In the grander scheme of even that one game, it was never a choice. Even if you sacrifice the Council, it's the humans that solve everyone's problems. 

 

It really didn't morph to that until ME3. Even ME2 was about finding lost human colonists and deciding whether Cerberus was worth working for...which is still a human centric concern.

[Seraphim24]

Absolutely not. There was no grounding in the first game at all - "by video game standards" means nothing, because by actual standards, the series was arble-garble nonsense from a scientific POV from the very start. ME2 did... absolutely nothing to change any single part of that, even with the much reviled Lazarus project which is really thematically consistent with the miraculous, sweet-science-y magic they used to revive the Rachni Queen from the dead.

 

ME had lots of structural issues, but "grounded sci-fi" is not a word you can use to describe a bunch of telepathic space elves who can use the force asari. 

 

Really, really wonder, again, just how it is you people manage to pick things you think you want to play but ultimately can't stand.

 

I mean I get it, it happens to me sometimes, but still, what other game was so appealing that brought you to Bioware and then I suppose ME betrayed you or something?

[KaiserShep]

Funnily, in an ironic way, Saren was the guy who cared about unifying everything. Look at his army. Geth, Krogan (with promises of cure), Asari, etc..

 

Then Shepard is almost (almost) railroaded to fill his shoes. Except it's "right" this time? Because why? Because it's nicer? I don't know..

 

 

Well, that kind of gets undermined by the fact that Saren was just a pitiful pawn in Sovereign's plot to retake the reaper trap, so all of his rambling about being subservient to the reapers was all for naught anyway. Even the geth were just following some silly machine worship to a being that was all idgaf, and the krogan were just clone drones that would undoubtedly be disposed of. We don't really get much in the way of any insight into Saren's whole idea about the krogan. We only get the idea that he intends to use them in the same way the Salarians did in the rachni wars. 

 

 

It really didn't morph to that until ME3. Even ME2 was about finding lost human colonists and deciding whether Cerberus was worth working for...which is still a human centric concern.

 

 

Really, ME2 elevated the messianic qualities of Shepard, and it started right with Project Lazarus, which would be considered to be a wild farce if you really look at it. I mean, even Shepard can say that you could have trained an army with what TIM used to bring her back, but he invests tons and tons into resurrecting a single person. Sure, it pays off, but that's vidyagame logic right thar. 

 

As for the story, sure it's about finding lost human colonists, but it's all based on the premise that humans are special because of their "genetic diversity" and are the singular focus of the reapers, to the point where they get some vorcha goons to distribute a virus that kills just about every alien except for them. 

 

As for Cerberus, Mass Effect has never really been subtle about them. TIM might have been compelling and gotten a fair amount of support, but it was obvious that this guy was a villain in the making. I mean, he had the posh ass space station base overlooking a dying star and he had glowing eyes. Was anyone really truly surprised when Cerberus turned out to be an antagonist faction? Shepard couldn't say two words to TIM without sounding hostile, and everyone's constantly saying you couldn't trust them. Wonder of wonders that they all turned out to be right. 

[straykat]

Really, really wonder, again, just how it is you people manage to pick things you think you want to play but ultimately can't stand.

 

I mean I get it, it happens to me sometimes, but still, what other game was so appealing that brought you to Bioware and then I suppose ME betrayed you or something?

 

I think this can be explained by the lack of AAA RPGs. People take what they can get... and there isn't much.

[straykat]

Well, that kind of gets undermined by the fact that Saren was just a pitiful pawn in Sovereign's plot to retake the reaper trap, so all of his rambling about being subservient to the reapers was all for naught anyway. Even the geth were just following some silly machine worship to a being that was all idgaf. 

 

 

 

 

Really, ME2 elevated the messianic qualities of Shepard, and it started right with Project Lazarus, which would be considered to be a wild farce if you really look at it. I mean, even Shepard can say that you could have trained an army with what TIM used to bring her back, but he invests tons and tons into resurrecting a single person. Sure, it pays off, but that's vidyagame logic right thar. 

 

As for the story, sure it's about finding lost human colonists, but it's all based on the premise that humans are special because of their "genetic diversity" and are the singular focus of the reapers, to the point where they get some vorcha goons to distribute a virus that kills just about every alien except for them. 

 

As for Cerberus, Mass Effect has never really been subtle about them. TIM might have been compelling and gotten a fair amount of support, but it was obvious that this guy was a villain in the making. I mean, he had the posh ass space station base overlooking a dying star and he had glowing eyes. 

 

I don't know.. if that's people's idea of messianic, then I don't know what to say. It's pretty boneheaded. I'm a Christian. Jesus had nothing to do with Avenger rifles. Why stories insist on tapping into religious symbolism, but not any of the actual qualities of the symbol, I'll never understand.

 

I just thought Lazarus was stupid. And made more stupid by Jacob's explanation of it. ME2 turned out to be my favorite game of the bunch, but when I first played, I didn't understand what was going on. It was all just... terrible at first. Kill a guy, and then raise him from the dead 2 minutes later? Only to be explained by JACOB, of all people? Meat and tubes. None of it inspires "messianic" to me.