736 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

And look at what solving things does.. Even that can't be done right. This is DAI. They can't even create a believable problem solver or someone with some context to the issues. You have to be a bum dug out of nowhere, who instantly attains godhood status, so you can declare your opinions on the world, without much challenge or work to it. This isn't better than Hawke either. It might make the player feel powerful, but it makes the world stupid in the process.

 

To be honest, Hawke is the only Dragon Age protagonist who had a rise to power that makes a lot of sense and wasn't handed something that instantly made them special.

 

As much as people say Origins is so much better for it over Inquisition, being a Grey Warden meant far more than anything else the Hero of Ferelden did prior to actually stopping the blight(which was only done because Grey Warden). You basically just showed up on everybody's doorstep and said "Grey Warden, you're obligated to help me".

[Killroy]

To be honest, Hawke is the only Dragon Age protagonist who had a rise to power that makes a lot of sense and wasn't handed something that instantly made them special.
 
As much as people say Origins is so much better for it over Inquisition, being a Grey Warden meant far more than anything else the Hero of Ferelden did prior to actually stopping the blight(which was only done because Grey Warden). You basically just showed up on everybody's doorstep and said "Grey Warden, you're obligated to help me".

That's how it was supposed to go, but it's a video game. Every faction had problems that only the Warden could solve.

[Cyonan]

That's how it was supposed to go, but it's a video game. Every faction had problems that only the Warden could solve.

 

The Circle of Magi(or other groups) needed the Warden no more or less than the Mages/Templars needed the Inquisitor which is to say they needed somebody to come in to help them and while it probably could have been just about anybody, it got to be us because this is a video game and we get to be the big goddamn hero.

 

The thing is that people will praise Origins for it while hating Inquisition for the same thing. Origins did a lot of things really well, and a lot of things better than Inquisition when it came to the writing but the Hero of Ferelden was largely made special at the start of the game because of Warden status. The only group of people you don't wave your treaties in the face of in order to get them to talk to you is Redcliffe.

 

Admittedly Inquisition I think would have been better served if you didn't have much, or any, control of the operation of things until Skyhold. The game tried to show the Inquisitor earning the title, but the reality is that you were playing the role from almost the start of the game. It never felt like I wasn't in control of everything from the moment Cassandra asked me which path I want to take in the tutorial mission.

[straykat]

That symbolism of the Grey Wardens was still more suitable for that kind of game. The Wardens are neutral and considered heroic to everyone (regardless of the truth). Hence, the whole "grey" name. They scream neutrality and big umbrella organization that welcomes anything. Duncan especially symbolized that.

 

They tried to recreate the "magic" of the first game with DAI, but with very specific civil wars and a Chantry crisis. That kind of story deserved more focus, I think. Not another Warden type of game. It also sucks coming off the back of DA2.. which showed that they can make a fleshed out/personable character.

 

Regardless though, DAO still had it's origins as well as Ostagar. That's kind of like two origin stories for everyone that's puts the protagonist on their path. DAI couldn't even manage one. It seems to assume I like Elder Scrolls stories or MMO protags who get up plopped on a shore.

[Hazegurl]

DMC was boring and the new Dante was a bit too "try hard" for my tastes.  What I loved about Devil May Cry was the Gothic settings and I preferred the more mature Dante who didn't have to scream curse words every five seconds just to sound cool. I didn't care at all for that girl (forgot her name), but the new Vergil was nicely done.  He's probably the only character who seemed to retain a bit of the old Vergil.  Honestly, I think most fans were okay with the reboot until they saw "crack head" looking Dante.

 

DAO, as far fetched as some of the quests were. it's understandable why they would ask for help.  The Grey Wardens are respected by the folks who agreed to honor the treaties.  And that respect was built by other Grey Wardens throughout the years, not by the PC.  And in all backgrounds, your character deserved to become a Grey Warden. You had some acknowledged skill, and you were never in charge of the entire organization.  Not even in Awakening. You made it to commander (if you lived), you had some authority in your area but you were still a cog in the machine. It takes a bit of the Mary Sueness away. Whereas Inquisition was all about you being the super special one right off the bat just by stumbling upon a magic orb.

 

As for MEA. I don't mind a reboot at all.  I'm ready for a new galaxy, new aliens, new things to shoot.  If they had continued with the Milky Way but rebooted the game then everyone would still complain about their endings, if they picked an ending as canon then people would just complain about their ending not being the chosen ending.  I personally, wouldn't have minded going back to a prequel like the first contact wars but then again, they would be confined to the background narrative.  At least with Andromeda they can stretch their legs a bit.

[straykat]

I've really come to appreciate what I refer to as the "lover, life or integrity -- choose two" ending of DAO (for females romancing Alistair) after playing DA2 and ME3. Something must be sacrificed, but the player gets to choose which thing it will be, and there really is no perfect answer.

 

Lover, life, or integrity... I like that. But I divided it up among the different protags, I guess. Warden maintained integrity (sacrifice), Hawke is life, but killed Anders her romance. So she sacrificed love. lol. Inquisitor the lover... I don't know if he lacks integrity though. He just denied his importance and valued what was before his face. Maybe that he means he actually has integrity.

[Prince Enigmatic]

It seems to assume I like Elder Scrolls stories or MMO protags who get up plopped on a shore.

 

 

Wait?

Elder Scrolls have stories?!

[Shinobu]

Lover, life, or integrity... I like that. But I divided it up among the different protags, I guess. Warden maintained integrity (sacrifice), Hawke is life, but killed Anders her romance. So she sacrificed love. lol. Inquisitor the lover... I don't know if he lacks integrity though. He just denied his importance and valued what was before his face. Maybe that he means he actually has integrity.

 

What I mean is that the female Warden who romanced Alistair had to choose to retain two of the three things but lose one. She can choose the DR, saving herself and Alistair at the cost of potentially screwing the world later (and forcing him to do a blood magic ritual that goes against his morality), or refuse the DR in which case either she or Alistair must die. Or, if she spares Loghain and has him sacrifice himself (thus retaining life and integrity) she loses Alistair as a lover. In no case does she get to save the world no strings attached, live, and retain her relationship with Alistair. The nice thing is that a solution to fit any Warden's story can chosen.  My pragmatic City Elf who actually trusted Morrigan chose to do the DR. Another Warden with a different set of priorities and values could justifiably choose differently. The whole thing was a roleplaying opportunity with choices and consequences spelled out up front.

 

In DA2 Hawke always lives and never gets to stop the Chantry explosion, so the only thing she chooses is whether to retain her relationship with her LI.

 

Not everyone will agree with me, but I felt that Shepard lost all three things in the original ending of ME3. I found the choices morally repugnant so felt I could not retain her integrity in any situation, she died or was completely altered, and her LI was stranded (implied forever) by a destroyed Normandy and relay network (or possibly killed in the beam run). The breath scene being available only to high EMS Destroy choosers and not anticipated made it more of an Easter egg than a choice. The Extended Cut made things slightly better (LI no longer stranded) but the rest remained pretty much the same for me.

 

So while I found DAO's choice difficult the first time, I really appreciate it now.

[Laughing_Man]

To be honest, Hawke is the only Dragon Age protagonist who had a rise to power that makes a lot of sense and wasn't handed something that instantly made them special.

 

Hawke was okay, I really liked sarcastic Hawke. If only they hadn't bungled his opinions and reactions on blood-magic and left it more vague, he would have been perfect.

 

Of course, for some reason they decided that he had to fail at practically everything, but that's another problem. (I have no problem with realism, I prefer it actually, but even in reality the more likely scenario is win some lose some)

[Cyonan]

That symbolism of the Grey Wardens was still more suitable for that kind of game. The Wardens are neutral and considered heroic to everyone (regardless of the truth). Hence, the whole "grey" name. They scream neutrality and big umbrella organization that welcomes anything. Duncan especially symbolized that.

 

They tried to recreate the "magic" of the first game with DAI, but with very specific civil wars and a Chantry crisis. That kind of story deserved more focus, I think. Not another Warden type of game. It also sucks coming off the back of DA2.. which showed that they can make a fleshed out/personable character.

 

Regardless though, DAO still had it's origins as well as Ostagar. That's kind of like two origin stories for everyone that's puts the protagonist on their path. DAI couldn't even manage one. It seems to assume I like Elder Scrolls stories or MMO protags who get up plopped on a shore.

 

I've no issues with the Grey Wardens, although the Hero of Ferelden was noted as being a special character specifically because of Warden status. I find it to be very similar to the mark in Inquisition. It did work well for the story that DA:O was telling.

 

Personally I've not really got anything against either being a thing, it's just curious to note that people praise Origins for doing the thing they hate on Inquisition for doing. Especially given that there is plenty of other things to criticize Inquisition over.

 

The origins were a neat idea that I'd like them to revisit, but a little bit more in depth. They felt too short in DA:O, although given that they had to make 6 of them I do get why not a ton of resources went into each one. DA:I kind of had origins but they were presented to you entirely via text.

 

Hawke was okay, I really liked sarcastic Hawke. If only they hadn't bungled his opinions and reactions on blood-magic and left it more vague, he would have been perfect.

 

Of course, for some reason they decided that he had to fail at practically everything, but that's another problem. (I have no problem with realism, I prefer it actually, but even in reality the more likely scenario is win some lose some)

 

Sarcastic Hawke is best Hawke.

 

In general I'm not a fan of stories where it's either almost all win or all lose, so I agree that it should be a bit of both. I think Haven was a great event in DA:I because it establishes Cory as a proper threat and gives you a reason to actually hate him. They just fumbled it by not doing much with him after that.

[straykat]

I've no issues with the Grey Wardens, although the Hero of Ferelden was noted as being a special character specifically because of Warden status. I find it to be very similar to the mark in Inquisition. It did work well for the story that DA:O was telling.

 

Personally I've not really got anything against either being a thing, it's just curious to note that people praise Origins for doing the thing they hate on Inquisition for doing. Especially given that there is plenty of other things to criticize Inquisition over.

 

The origins were a neat idea that I'd like them to revisit, but a little bit more in depth. They felt too short in DA:O, although given that they had to make 6 of them I do get why not a ton of resources went into each one. DA:I kind of had origins but they were presented to you entirely via text.

 

 

Sarcastic Hawke is best Hawke.

 

In general I'm not a fan of stories where it's either almost all win or all lose, so I agree that it should be a bit of both. I think Haven was a great event in DA:I because it establishes Cory as a proper threat and gives you a reason to actually hate him. They just fumbled it by not doing much with him after that.

 

It's not the same though. They weren't special. "If it was a matter of power, sending you two would be quite the jest."

 

It was about the title and symbol of the Wardens, but nothing actually tangible. This is both Flemeth and Wynne's advice.

 

Speaking of which, most of the things that set you up for success was Flemeth in the first place. She rescued you, she preserved the treaties, she laid out the battle plan, she told you how to inspire.

 

The impression I'm left with is a surviving soldier, who feels a bit in over their head. Not a chosen one. And if Flemeth doesn't help, then the other companions find other ways to urge you on. Leliana has her Chantry leanings, Sten urges you towards "Duty", etc.. But none of it is about being a chosen one. Only that you have a job to do, and you better grin and bear it. And it's something typical of every Warden in the setting. They're all resigned and kind of grim.

[Cyonan]

It's not the same though. They weren't special. "If it was a matter of power, sending you two would be quite the jest."

 

It was about the title and symbol of the Wardens, but nothing actually tangible. This is both Flemeth and Wynne's advice.

 

Speaking of which, most of the things that set you up for success was Flemeth in the first place. She rescued you, she preserved the treaties, she laid out the battle plan, she told you how to inspire.

 

The impression I'm left with is a surviving soldier, who feels a bit in over their head. Not a chosen one. And if Flemeth doesn't help, then the other companions find other ways to urge you on. Leliana has her Chantry leanings, Sten urges you towards "Duty", etc.. But none of it is about being a chosen one. Only that you have a job to do, and you better grin and bear it. And it's something typical of every Warden in the setting. They're all resigned and kind of grim.

 

but they were special because only a Warden can actually kill an archdemon, thus ending a blight. Take the Hero of Ferelden and Alistair and remove their Grey Warden powers and the Origins campaign is a failure. The archdemon is never killed and Ferelden is overrun by the blight.

 

The HoF displayed incredible abilities during the time spent going around rallying the army but then, so did the Inquisitor during the time ending the Mage Rebellion and subverting Cory's plans.

 

When it comes to DA:I, you can actually reject being a "chosen one". To be honest, other people calling you that does make sense in the context of the story being told. That's because they raised the stakes higher than in Origins, so the whole world is actively threatened now by something that hasn't really been encountered before.

 

Like I said I've no issue with either game's rise to power, but I think either people are giving Origins too much credit or Inquisition too little credit based on the complaints I see about DA:I's rise to power.

[KotorEffect3]

Nope, spent too much time with the original trilogy to see it erased from history just to "start over".   Andromeda is really the best compromise, they can give the franchise a fresh start without erasing it's history.

[Killroy]

DMC was boring and the new Dante was a bit too "try hard" for my tastes.  What I loved about Devil May Cry was the Gothic settings and I preferred the more mature Dante who didn't have to scream curse words every five seconds just to sound cool. I didn't care at all for that girl (forgot her name), but the new Vergil was nicely done.  He's probably the only character who seemed to retain a bit of the old Vergil.  Honestly, I think most fans were okay with the reboot until they saw "crack head" looking Dante.

 

I really hate gamers sometimes. Too young and sheltered to know who Sid Vicious is or what punk rock looks like, and too immature to understand emotions other than anger and lust. DMC is so much smarter and more artistic than the rest of the series that it was doomed to failure. It's basically Devil May Cry 3 mixed with The Binding Of Isaac so of course it went way over the heads of your average gamers. Dante was always a generic hero that was a completely different character from game to game but dumb gamers had this imaginary image of the perfect badass in their heads, so any nuance was too much to handle. 

[Valhallix]

Not if it means new voice actors i've grown quite fond of Mark Meer as Shep and the rest of the gang. I couldn't imagine anyone else as Joker or Garrus. My biggest fear for Andromeda is that it will be too much like DAI. There's all this talk about exploration, but exploration wasn't what made Mass Effect great in the first place. it was the narrative. Honestly I don't need an MMO like rpg like some OCD who just finds joy in completion. I need more than that from Mass Effect.

My other biggest concern for Andromeda is that it will feel too alien. We've spent all this time learning about the Milky way, all the races, cultures, politics and history that built the basis for this franchise, and then they just toss it aside to start fresh. Even with the humans, in the milky way humans still had a connection with Earth and had characteristics we could all relate to. I'm afraid even they will feel alien in Andromeda. Inquisition, while drastically different from previous installments still didn't feel alien because it was the same universe with the same existing arcs. I'm afraid Andromeda will be so different that it won't even be Mass Effect.

[BatarianBob]

If the franchise was really so worthless that you want to throw it all away and start over, why bother continuing it at all, even in hard reboot form? Mass Effect isn't Trek or Wars. It's not going to get endless amounts of second chances, like those franchises do. If the brand name is badly tainted enough that it needs a hard reboot, they're better off retiring it and starting a new space opera IP. I'd be all in favor of that, actually.

[Killroy]

If the franchise was really so worthless that you want to throw it all away and start over, why bother continuing it at all, even in hard reboot form? Mass Effect isn't Trek or Wars. It's not going to get endless amounts of second chances, like those franchises do. If the brand name is badly tainted enough that it needs a hard reboot, they're better off retiring it and starting a new space opera IP. I'd be all in favor of that, actually.

 

That's a strawman.

[SKAR]

Hard reboot would be better than whatever this is.

It sounds like a similar plot (Remnants), but a weaker premise (Andromeda and "Ryder"). Why go half assed about it? Just reboot.

you shouldn't be prejudice. It's a bad personality trait. Nothing needs to have rebooted because nothing is wrong. It's like rebooting the gears games cause they killed Dom. P.s. the new one looks fantastic.

[SKAR]

Not if it means new voice actors i've grown quite fond of Mark Meer as Shep and the rest of the gang. I couldn't imagine anyone else as Joker or Garrus. My biggest fear for Andromeda is that it will be too much like DAI. There's all this talk about exploration, but exploration wasn't what made Mass Effect great in the first place. it was the narrative. Honestly I don't need an MMO like rpg like some OCD who just finds joy in completion. I need more than that from Mass Effect.

My other biggest concern for Andromeda is that it will feel too alien. We've spent all this time learning about the Milky way, all the races, cultures, politics and history that built the basis for this franchise, and then they just toss it aside to start fresh. Even with the humans, in the milky way humans still had a connection with Earth and had characteristics we could all relate to. I'm afraid even they will feel alien in Andromeda. Inquisition, while drastically different from previous installments still didn't feel alien because it was the same universe with the same existing arcs. I'm afraid Andromeda will be so different that it won't even be Mass Effect.

Don't be afraid of change.

[Prince Enigmatic]

I really hate gamers sometimes. Too young and sheltered to know who Sid Vicious is or what punk rock looks like, and too immature to understand emotions other than anger and lust. DMC is so much smarter and more artistic than the rest of the series that it was doomed to failure. It's basically Devil May Cry 3 mixed with The Binding Of Isaac so of course it went way over the heads of your average gamers. Dante was always a generic hero that was a completely different character from game to game but dumb gamers had this imaginary image of the perfect badass in their heads, so any nuance was too much to handle. 

 

You hate gamer(s) because their opinions differ from your own? And then proceed to accuse them of immaturity??? 

[Killroy]

You hate gamer(s) because their opinions differ from your own? And then proceed to accuse them of immaturity???

Not all opinions are equal. Some are objectively stupid or ignorant. Saying the reboot Dante looked like a "crackhead" is pure ignorance. He was a punk, modeled after punk rock stars like Sid Vicious, not a freakin' crackhead.

[BatarianBob]

That's a strawman.

It's not, in fact. It's exactly what a hard reboot entails.

[Killroy]

It's not, in fact. It's exactly what a hard reboot entails.

That's completely false. A reboot is about taking the thing and keeping enough of it to be true to its roots but changing enough that it feels fresh and new. Like John Carpenter's The Thing or Batman Begins.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Not all opinions are equal. Some are objectively stupid or ignorant. Saying the reboot Dante looked like a "crackhead" is pure ignorance. He was a punk, modeled after punk rock stars like Sid Vicious, not a freakin' crackhead.

 

I've seen plenty of opinions that are ignorant, usually ones that are negative against other people because of their ignorance, and reflective of outdated thinking, and in that case I would take issue with it and not regard it as an equal opinion worth arguing against.

 

But an opinion on a game character, on any piece of media, even if may seem stupid to you, is their opinion that they are entitled too. It's all subjective and open to critique. You can call it out, and disagree with it, but i personally find it a tad harsh to openly express hatred of it and a gamer's opinion when it doesn't show the same level of thought into it as yours.

[Iakus]

 Nothing needs to have rebooted because nothing is wrong.  

Speaking of opinions...