736 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

And how much did those actually impact us? A few cameos to show who the Concerned Parties in an area were? Interchangeable mercs? An information broker who's rarely seen and used as a plot device? The current regime we spent most of our time ignorring or only barely associated with?

 

The STG was a minor part of government we rarely dealth with. There will be other spy agencies.

 

The Spectres were a title with little meaning or actual relevance. We deal with self-styled enforcers for elites all the time.

 

The Blue Suns were a mercenary group. We kill pirates all the ****** time, can we please have something more imaginative than mercs.

 

The Shadow Broker was an information broker occasionally used a plot device for exposition or revelation. We can (and did) have other spy masters. We can even have a new self-styled Shadow Broker in the new setting.

 

I think we can both agree that Cerberus was way too inflated in the trilogy, and that it's time as a 'identify' factor is well over.

 

The Alliance was simply the current regime for Shepard's story. I have no problem with the player character switching regimes, be it to other powers (Ferelden to Kirkwall) or new ones (Inquisition), and I have no problem with old regimes falling or being left behind. I don't equate 'Star Wars' to Palpatine's Empire, and I enjoyed plenty parts of Expanded Universe that weren't even about dealing with the remnants.

 

I also feel the the collapse of the united galactic civilization in ME3 was a good decision, on thematic and dramatic levels. I heartily approved of the destruction of the relays and the balkanization of the galaxy. If we had stayed in the Milky Way, for a sequel (canonize an ending or what not), I wouldn't have wanted it to be 'and the Council picks up the pieces.' I would have loved a story in the Milky Way of the reconnection of the galaxy after centuries of divergence and rebuilding from the ashes, where the Council system and racially united species-states are a mythic history that only historical revaunchists and Asari are actually striving for, and where new factions and new species have no love or desire to recreate a Council (unless, of course, they're on top). The only Alliance I would have wanted to see in a Milky Way sequel would be a Rump State, while human colonies are independent or self-styled coalitions or part of emerging empires. The only Turian Hierarchy I'd have been interested in would have been one with a thousand Primarchs and civil war, as every Turian colony cluster followed chains of command and each new Primarch refused to bend to the rest.

 

I'm no more committed to the institutions of old than I am the characters of old. They can change, and die, and disappear, and the story be the better for it.

 

And what does Orlais or Ferelden mean in Dragon Age games?  Or the Magisterium.   Who cares about The House of Crows?  Or the mortalitassi.  Are they just a "minor part of a government we rarely dealt with?"  Are the Bull's Chargers just a mercenary group?  Is there really nothing left worth exploring in a setting if it hasn't made an appearance after three games?

 

Who cares about the Anderfels, since we've never visited there?    Are the Deep Roads just a plot device? Or the Free Marches?  Rivain? 

 

The thing about switching regimes is, in Dragon Age, the old regime continues, we simply see the world from a different angle.  The whole world and all it's unused lore doesn't simply get wadded into a ball, set on fire, and the ashes scattered.

 

Balkanizing the galaxy might have been a good idea.  It would have been a logical extension to the events of ME3 (insofar as logic can be applied to ME3)  But switching galaxies entirely?  Abandoning an entire setting and setting up shop elsewhere?  Why even keep the "Mass Effect" name?

[Commander Rpg]

A very hard reboot that had to be done

 

[FlyingSquirrel]

A "do-over" of the Shepard trilogy might just feel kind of weird at this point. Sure, the games have their share of flaws, but I've made my peace with them at this point, even if that involves space-barring through a few scenes so that I can imagine something else happened, or thinking up motivations or off-screen conversations for Shepard that aren't spelled out.

 

If they wanted to do an alternate universe version of Mass Effect's Milky Way but without Shepard or the Reapers, I'd be intrigued by the possibility, though that would involve reworking the history of the protheans and the mass relays at the very least. The one regret I do have about going to Andromeda is that all the politics, culture, and history of the established Milky Way civilizations will likely be minor factors at most, since they'll all be newcomers to a different galaxy regardless of whatever happened in the past.

[Iakus]

 

If they wanted to do an alternate universe version of Mass Effect's Milky Way but without Shepard or the Reapers, I'd be intrigued by the possibility, though that would involve reworking the history of the protheans and the mass relays at the very least. The one regret I do have about going to Andromeda is that all the politics, culture, and history of the established Milky Way civilizations will likely be minor factors at most, since they'll all be newcomers to a different galaxy regardless of whatever happened in the past.

I see no reason why they couldn't just do this.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

A lot of people are severely booty blasted over a simple change of setting to avoid the fallout from ME3, but would a hard reboot be so terrible? Movie franchises do it all the time, and even some game franchises have done it.
Look at DMC. Criminally underrated, but vastly superior to Devil May Cry 4 and essentially the best of the first and third games mixed with a fresh, more unique take on the franchise. Fanboys tore it down before it ever hit the market, but it's a great game that's immediately identifiable as Devil May Cry and yet new and different at the same time.
So why not reboot Mass Effect? It's just a fictional world made up by people on the spot. Every creative person knows that their works can always be improved upon.

 

Honestly depends on the reboot. Some reboots suck like the JJ Abrams Star Trek and Star Trek: Into Darkness Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and very few are even better than the originals like Battlestar Galactica, Transformers: Beast Wars, and Star Trek: The Next Generation.

 

In video games successful reboots are so few that other than new 2D Super Mario Brothers games I can't think of any. 

[wright1978]

A "do-over" of the Shepard trilogy might just feel kind of weird at this point. Sure, the games have their share of flaws, but I've made my peace with them at this point, even if that involves space-barring through a few scenes so that I can imagine something else happened, or thinking up motivations or off-screen conversations for Shepard that aren't spelled out.
 
If they wanted to do an alternate universe version of Mass Effect's Milky Way but without Shepard or the Reapers, I'd be intrigued by the possibility, though that would involve reworking the history of the protheans and the mass relays at the very least. The one regret I do have about going to Andromeda is that all the politics, culture, and history of the established Milky Way civilizations will likely be minor factors at most, since they'll all be newcomers to a different galaxy regardless of whatever happened in the past.

I'm not at peace with the way the trilogy ended but yeah I don't want a do-over either.

At what point do you stop unpicking the thread. Shep, the reapers, the relays, the protheans, the Prothean influence on the other races. So no I wouldn't be intrigued by some twisting of the setting to create some alternate start point. Why not just create a new ip if the aim is to overwrite vast sections of the lore.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'm not at peace with the way the trilogy ended but yeah I don't want a do-over either.

At what point do you stop unpicking the thread. Shep, the reapers, the relays, the protheans, the Prothean influence on the other races. So no I wouldn't be intrigued by some twisting of the setting to create some alternate start point. Why not just create a new ip if the aim is to overwrite vast sections of the lore.

 

The downside to that, I think, is that Bioware did manage to put a fairly original spin on the whole "vast interstellar society with complicated history between different species" trope, so creating a new IP that still operates within that outline would mean starting from scratch with the different alien races and their backstories. At the same time, they'd have to be careful to avoid anything that would prompt reactions of "plotline X is a rehash of the relationship between the turians and salarians" or "the Mass Effect universe was much more interesting than this."

 

Those are still potential pitfalls for Andromeda as well, but they might at least be able to work around it by having the species' Milky Way histories inform how they respond to the situation in Andromeda and acknowledge any similarities up-front.

[AlanC9]

I see no reason why they couldn't just do this.

Sure, they could. But that's not enough of a reason to do it.

[Dean_the_Young]

And what does Orlais or Ferelden mean in Dragon Age games?  Or the Magisterium.   Who cares about The House of Crows?  Or the mortalitassi.  Are they just a "minor part of a government we rarely dealt with?"  Are the Bull's Chargers just a mercenary group?  Is there really nothing left worth exploring in a setting if it hasn't made an appearance after three games?

 

Who cares about the Anderfels, since we've never visited there?    Are the Deep Roads just a plot device? Or the Free Marches?  Rivain?

 

Among that list, the House of Crows and Bull's Chargers and even the mortalitassi are pretty irrelevant to 'Dragon Age'. They're groups that add flavor, but the setting continuies without them (and in most cases never even dwells on them).

 

Even Orlais and Ferelden are repeatedly places Over There which don't tie down the plot. We never even saw Orlais until DAI, and what we did see wasn't much, and Dragon Age is hardly the worse for it.

 

In so much that Dragon Age has defined itself as being the story of Thedas, it would be a change- but the setting of Dragon Age already extends beyond Thedas- to the unmapped regions and the Qunari continent and the Fade and the mysterious 'Those Across The Sea'- enough so that we could have an adventure exploring those new and unknown places, beyond Ferelden or the Magisterium or the mortalitassi or the Anderfels, and it can still be a genuine Dragon Age experience.

 

Somehow- just somehow- Dragon Age Origins was Dragon Age despite narry a Magister or a Charger or a mortalitassi or Rivaini or the Free Marches or the Anderfels being visited.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing about switching regimes is, in Dragon Age, the old regime continues, we simply see the world from a different angle.  The whole world and all it's unused lore doesn't simply get wadded into a ball, set on fire, and the ashes scattered.

 

Sure it does. There was even a giant whole in the sky. And now key elements of the status quo ante- of Orlais and the Chantry race politics and the Circle system- have been irrevocably changed. They aren't what they were, and never will be again, and things were ignorred or given a throw away at best and have no expectation of being used again.

 

 

 

 

Balkanizing the galaxy might have been a good idea.  It would have been a logical extension to the events of ME3 (insofar as logic can be applied to ME3)  But switching galaxies entirely?  Abandoning an entire setting and setting up shop elsewhere?  Why even keep the "Mass Effect" name?

 

If you're willing to balkanize the galaxy, most of your protests for changing galaxy don't apply because it's mostly the same thing- abandoning the polities, the characters, and the locations Shepard used and looking at new things and places and organizations that didn't previously exist.

[straykat]

Among that list, the House of Crows and Bull's Chargers and even the mortalitassi are pretty irrelevant to 'Dragon Age'. They're groups that add flavor, but the setting continuies without them (and in most cases never even dwells on them).

 

I don't mean to derail too much, but that is unfortunate. Because it's these little things that I think hold a lot of potential. The setting is too focused on big stuff like Blights and Gods. This is the same problem Mass Effect had with the Reapers. Bioware (and partly the fans) can't get away from the "epic".

 

And before anyone says it, fantasy or sci-fi doesn't have to be epic. I would welcome a pirate game or something. Space pirates included.

[In Exile]

I don't mean to derail too much, but that is unfortunate. Because it's these little things that I think hold a lot of potential. The setting is too focused on big stuff like Blights and Gods. This is the same problem Mass Effect had with the Reapers. Bioware (and partly the fans) can't get away from the "epic".

 

And before anyone says it, fantasy or sci-fi doesn't have to be epic. I would welcome a pirate game or something. Space pirates included.

 

But it didn't. If anything, before the endgame in DA:I and the DLC, DA has done nothing but run away from the epic. All of DA:O was about avoiding even being within a hundred feet of the Blight. We never really see its effects, etc. DA2 is even lower on the epic scale. 

[straykat]

But it didn't. If anything, before the endgame in DA:I and the DLC, DA has done nothing but run away from the epic. All of DA:O was about avoiding even being within a hundred feet of the Blight. We never really see its effects, etc. DA2 is even lower on the epic scale. 

 

DA2 is. But DAI is epic right from the start. Don't be fooled by all the elfroot.

[RoboticWater]

But it didn't. If anything, before the endgame in DA:I and the DLC, DA has done nothing but run away from the epic. All of DA:O was about avoiding even being within a hundred feet of the Blight. We never really see its effects, etc. DA2 is even lower on the epic scale. 

You help the dwarves find what is essentially a demigod to them (and end up finding two), discover the universe's equivalent of the Holy Grail, and purge a centuries old curse from the Brecilican Forests. And within a few main missions of DA:I, you can get sent back in time and decide the fate of an insurrection. I'd consider those things fairly epic myself.

[straykat]

You help the dwarves find what is essentially a demigod to them (and end up finding two), discover the universe's equivalent of the Holy Grail, and purge a centuries old curse from the Brecilican Forests. And within a few main missions of DA:I, you can get sent back in time and decide the fate of an insurrection. I'd consider those things fairly epic myself.

 

You don't even have to get into that. Right in the first hour, it follows a Tolkien type of formula.. where the hero is afflicted with some ancient object and is "chosen" to be the one to end global conflicts. Same with Shepard and the Prothean artifact.

 

Except Shepard is slightly cooler for having a better backstory and just being a crazy soldier (at least in my view). The Inquisitor is typical prisoner or dude washed up on shore, like all TES games and MMOs.. suddenly adept and able to meddle in every affair ever.

[Iakus]

Among that list, the House of Crows and Bull's Chargers and even the mortalitassi are pretty irrelevant to 'Dragon Age'. They're groups that add flavor, but the setting continuies without them (and in most cases never even dwells on them).

 

Even Orlais and Ferelden are repeatedly places Over There which don't tie down the plot. We never even saw Orlais until DAI, and what we did see wasn't much, and Dragon Age is hardly the worse for it.

 

In so much that Dragon Age has defined itself as being the story of Thedas, it would be a change- but the setting of Dragon Age already extends beyond Thedas- to the unmapped regions and the Qunari continent and the Fade and the mysterious 'Those Across The Sea'- enough so that we could have an adventure exploring those new and unknown places, beyond Ferelden or the Magisterium or the mortalitassi or the Anderfels, and it can still be a genuine Dragon Age experience.

 

It's all relevant.  It's all part of what makes up Thedas.  Just as all the races, governments and assorted societies create the Mass Effect setting.  Even if they play not relevant to a given story, they are still important to the worldbuildng of Thedas.  It's part of what gives the setting its identity,

 

Same with Mass Effect.  Take away everything that people identified with the setting, and what remains?

 

 

 

Somehow- just somehow- Dragon Age Origins was Dragon Age despite narry a Magister or a Charger or a mortalitassi or Rivaini or the Free Marches or the Anderfels being visited.

 

But it was still there.  We heard of magisters, we met at least one Rivaini.  The Anderfels and Free marches are mentioned and even appear on maps.  It was all part of what makes Thedas Thedas.

 

Just as the Citadel, Earth, Palaven, drell, and asari matriarchs are part of what make the Mass Effect setting recognizable.

 

 

 

Sure it does. There was even a giant whole in the sky. And now key elements of the status quo ante- of Orlais and the Chantry race politics and the Circle system- have been irrevocably changed. They aren't what they were, and never will be again, and things were ignorred or given a throw away at best and have no expectation of being used again.

If you're willing to balkanize the galaxy, most of your protests for changing galaxy don't apply because it's mostly the same thing- abandoning the polities, the characters, and the locations Shepard used and looking at new things and places and organizations that didn't previously exist.

Changed, yes.  Not thrown away and replaced with something completely different.  

 

I'm willing to balkanize the galaxy because it would lead to logical changes to the setting, yet keep it familiar.  The people, the locations, and even some of the polities would be the remain, albiet changed.  What's being done to Andromeda is what Bioware seems to do instead of change:  cut it off with a hacksaw and throw it away.  

[straykat]

 

It's all relevant.  It's all part of what makes up Thedas.  Just as all the races, governments and assorted societies create the Mass Effect setting.  Even if they play not relevant to a given story, they are still important to the worldbuildng of Thedas.  It's part of what gives the setting its identity,

 

Same with Mass Effect.  Take away everything that people identified with the setting, and what remains?

 

Mass Effect had good world building, but they squandered it. They didn't create a world so much as they created a plot -- and sooner or later, that plot would eat the whole world. Listen to Dr. Manuel at Eden Prime. He was right all along. Punch him out if you wish.

 

I was always hoping they'd do more with the world, but to my surprise, it was never about any of that.

[AlanC9]

I'm willing to balkanize the galaxy because it would lead to logical changes to the setting, yet keep it familiar.  The people, the locations, and even some of the polities would be the remain, albiet changed.  What's being done to Andromeda is what Bioware seems to do instead of change:  cut it off with a hacksaw and throw it away.

Is this just rhetoric, or do you actually think that ME:A won't be familiiar?

[Giantdeathrobot]

Andromeda essentially IS a reboot already.

 

For all intents and purposes, yeah.

 

Bioware wasn't salvaging the post-ME3 Milky Way. It just couldn't be done unless they ignored the whole ending. So they sent us to Andromeda. Simple to me.

[The Elder King]

You don't even have to get into that. Right in the first hour, it follows a Tolkien type of formula.. where the hero is afflicted with some ancient object and is "chosen" to be the one to end global conflicts. Same with Shepard and the Prothean artifact.

 

Except Shepard is slightly cooler for having a better backstory and just being a crazy soldier (at least in my view). The Inquisitor is typical prisoner or dude washed up on shore, like all TES games and MMOs.. suddenly adept and able to meddle in every affair ever.

Eh, Shep's backstory surely shown a bit of his ability and experience, but his situaton is just slightly better then the Inquisitor. ME is a game so it was obvious that he'd have been the one to hunt Saren, but in theory a more experience Spectre should've been sent. Even his Spectre joining is rushed. The Warden is similar as well but at it was necessary for him to step up...considering Alistair's reluctance of being in charge .

I do agree Hawke is very different, in both the origin of his power and the actions he took during his quests, but on the other hand they didn't do (in my opinion) a good job in showing it.

[In Exile]

You help the dwarves find what is essentially a demigod to them (and end up finding two), discover the universe's equivalent of the Holy Grail, and purge a centuries old curse from the Brecilican Forests. And within a few main missions of DA:I, you can get sent back in time and decide the fate of an insurrection. I'd consider those things fairly epic myself.

Caridan isn't a demi-god. Just because they worship him doesn't make him one. Branka is literally just a deified dwaf. The ashes are specifically played up to be ambiguously magical - the whole quest is about whether there's any religious dimension at all, and there's absolutely nothing special about the curse in the Brecilian Forest - it's mundane magic for a high magic setting.

 

We're a long way from being too focused on Blights and Gods. The only game that does that, as I said, is DA:I's DLC (e.g. chasing Solas, or Descent). That's when we face the surreal nature of the setting. 

 

 

You don't even have to get into that. Right in the first hour, it follows a Tolkien type of formula.. where the hero is afflicted with some ancient object and is "chosen" to be the one to end global conflicts. Same with Shepard and the Prothean artifact.

 

Except Shepard is slightly cooler for having a better backstory and just being a crazy soldier (at least in my view). The Inquisitor is typical prisoner or dude washed up on shore, like all TES games and MMOs.. suddenly adept and able to meddle in every affair ever.

 

Shepard is literally said to be the "best" humanity has to offer. Shepard is the ubermensch of human ubermensch. I'd say that's worse. At least with the other characters you can try and pretend like they are made for greatness. Well, except for the Sole Survivor background that really makes no sense. 

[In Exile]

Eh, Shep's backstory surely shown a bit of his ability and experience, but his situaton is just slightly better then the Inquisitor. ME is a game so it was obvious that he'd have been the one to hunt Saren, but in theory a more experience Spectre should've been sent. Even his Spectre joining is rushed. The Warden is similar as well but at it was necessary for him to step up...considering Alistair's reluctance of being in charge .

I do agree Hawke is very different, in both the origin of his power and the actions he took during his quests, but on the other hand they didn't do (in my opinion) a good job in showing it.

 

ME1 handles it badly but they basically have a reason for why it's Shepard - the Council thinks you're crazy and this is all a bone to humanity. The last time Shepard does anything, it's to froth at the mouth like an complete lunatic. 

[Dean_the_Young]

ME1 handles it badly but they basically have a reason for why it's Shepard - the Council thinks you're crazy and this is all a bone to humanity. The last time Shepard does anything, it's to froth at the mouth like an complete lunatic. 

 

Not just a bone- there's a subtext that it's basically the equivalent of the Council ignoring the problem. Spectres are independent and without support? Sure. Right. And just so coincidentally, if the Alliance doesn't pick up the tab and do the searching themselves- like they would have to otherwise- then the Council can simply blame the Alliance and Human Specter.

 

Heck, the Council is even vague on punishing Saren if he is found and caught. There's concern, but the subtext with Garrus is that if you actually caught Saren alive, he might be deemed to valuable to loose and escape the noose. Hence why you can have a Renegade resolve to ensure it doesn't come to that.

 

Spectre status was always a weak joke in Mass Effect. It was supposed to put Spectres above the law, but it only applies where the Council already has primacy and can use the laws to it's will. We Spectres work almost exclusively where it has no pull- the Terminus, or the criminal underworld- and even where it does, the very thing that it's supposed to allow- public violence and breaking the laws- are still limiters. Tela Vasir still has to hide her involvement in a terrorist attack. Saren still loses his status on an accusation and weak evidence. Shepard still ends up in jail.

 

The best use of Spectre status wouldn't be for run-and-gun types like Shepard. The type of foes they go after are the ones where Specter status is irrelevant. No, the best specter would be a Volus who fights white collar crime, and uses the specter status to cut through red tape.

 

 

 

I'll point out, though, that ME:A could easily still have Specters if it wanted. Simply call them the sanctioned agents of the Arc Council- which, hey, offers us an easy way to have a Council leadership authority even without the Citadel. It was always the collaborative relationship of authorities behind the government, not the location, that made the Council the Council and Specters their agents.

 

Similarly, the Shadow Broker can still exist. Unless you exclusively define the Shadow Broker as either That Yhag or Liara T'soni, someone setting up their own spy ring and calling themselves the Shadow Broker is really all it ever took. The old broker's network went the way of the old galaxy- even staying in the Milky Way post-ME3 wouldn't keep it from being sundered with the relay- so a ground-up recreation would always be appropriate if it was going to continue.

 

And, of course, our own Council- composed as racial representatives of all the major Arc races, aligned for common cause in the galaxy but with differing needs and perspectives and whose authority is limited outside of those boundaries. The Arc Council certainly won't be the dominant force in the galaxy- but any rump council of post-ME3 wouldn't either with the collapse of the relays. Our Council being the little fish in a bigger pond is perfectly suitable and consistent with the themes of the Council when you recal that the Council hadn't even looked at 99% of their original galaxy. A Council wouldn't be the Council only if you persist that the Mass Effect Council must be defined as Asari/Turian/Salarian/Human and no other races (which, after the Reaper War, was almost certainly doomed to change- the Asari deceit, the rise of the Quarians/Geth, the Krogan- or that the Council has to be the dominant galactic power- which failed to be applied or relevant in ME2, and ended in ME3.

 

Depending on how the Arc comes about, we can have some familiar corporate names or influences as contributers to the Arc project if we wanted and thought it was that important. Founding backers like Binary-Helix, or security firms like Eclipse- who even now have offices and offer employment or services to members of the Arc with offices on the Arc and looking to expand in the new galaxy with knowledge taken from the old. These wouldn't be the offices back in the Milky Way- which we didn't exactly see or tour either- but these would be their offices and names all the same, changed for the changing context. If Exo-Geni isn't Exo-Geni because you define Exo-Geni as something that only existed in shop menues in the Milky Way, I'd raise an eyebrow at that definition.

 

The carrying of myths and culture, even if not organizations and governments, can allow for familiar things to find new life in a new context. Self-styled Asari Justicar vigilantes- because surely it's the idea of a perfect Code, and not the institution, they derive legitimacy from- challenged by context or the realities of moral imperfection. Self-styled STG, separated by who knows how many generations from the genuine STG, raising the questions of how a institution maintains legitimacy from an identity over time. A human cabal, hidden in the system where 'Human Interests' are in constant collaboration and cooperation, which holds a label that surpasses the longevity of the Nazis.

 

Many of these things can come over, if we wanted. Maybe we don't- maybe some things should end, whether they be left behind or allowed to die in the Milky Way. And maybe these things aren't so important after all to the Mass Effect experience. Eclipse was a mercenary firm will little lore and existed as people to be killed who primarily existed in one game. Are they really that important to Mass Effect, that Mass Effect was less of a Mass Effect because the first game didn't even have them at all?

 

Yes, things will change- but the nature or form of organizations was always going to change after the Reaper War, unless your problem wasn't merely the endings but the sheer fact that the Reaper War was big enough to fundamentally change the status quo of the political and economic structures of the Council System.

[shepskisaac]

In Hollywood the franchise would have been rebooted 15 times by now.

They do it, for franchises that are already decades-old, many of them dating back to the 1930s... Mass Effect is not even 1 decade old.

[Iakus]

Is this just rhetoric, or do you actually think that ME:A won't be familiiar?

Well the teaser was barely recognizable as a Mass Effect game, so....

[Iakus]

They do it, for franchises that are already decades-old, many of them dating back to the 1930s... Mass Effect is not even 1 decade old.

Spider-Man-2002

Rebooted by Amazing Spider-Man 2012

Rebooted again with Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017

 

 

Hulk:  2003

rebooted by Incredible Hulk 2008

 

X-Men 2000

(soft) rebooted by X-Men: First Class 2011

and completely ret-gone by X-Men: Days of Future Past 2014