240 réponses à ce sujet

[GoldenGail3]

I hereby coin Draining Dragon's Law: As the length of a discussion on the Bioware Forum increases, the probability of it devolving into a debate over social justice approaches 1.

Yeah, I know... It's like the romance thing at DA....

[Battlebloodmage]

Why would anyone hate straight white males? They taste good in tartar sauce.

[Addictress]

I hereby coin Draining Dragon's Law: As the length of a discussion on the Bioware Forum increases, the probability of it devolving into a debate over social justice approaches 1.

First two pages, risk increases 20%. Increases exponentially thereafter

[frylock23]

Why would anyone hate straight white males? They taste good in tartar sauce.

 

While I would agree in theory about straight white males tasting good, you have a lousy taste in condiments to dress them in. I prefer dressing mine in something else.

 

(I still say that even if you happen to be making an, erm, off color reference ...)

[Eromenos]

Someone did challenge me out of the blue regarding transgender and transsexual representation for MEA, and they deserved a response. 

 

Yes, I'm East Asian! Also, Asian-American and something tells me I'm not the only one who games either.

 

What audience qualifies as North American gamer? Hint: the answer is plural.

 

http://www.polygon.c...haracter-secret

 

Feels like only yesterday there were arguments about legitimacy and user-experience for gay male gamers right here in these parts. The con argument: "Who needs?! Special interests! Vocal minority! Make your own game! Mass Effect isn't about politics! My kids shouldn't see this!" The pro argument: "Gay guys need! Human interest! Growing minority! We are paying customers! Mass Effect does includes politics, especially identity politics! Your son's gonna end up gay with or without you!"

 

Fortunately BioWare eventually sided for the latter with ME3. Bitterness ongoing? Probably, but so what? Enough to motivate arguments for rolling back the clock? Doesn't seem to be the case. Fantastic! That there is an applicable model for trans inclusion in MEA. From these things the common SWM hang-up is easy to deduce: "Where's my extra cut?" Simple: non-applicable! 

 

I'm not sure about these comments regarding face-customization. Is ME somehow lacking in flattering Asian-specific facial features? Fewer preset faces maybe I'll grant that. Funny thing: many of the human NPCs look Eurasian throughout ME. My main character does too, meaning *gasp* part-white. Had to work for it though; if I'm not mistaken the character creator's omnipresent pig noses and duck lips were always color-blind. Not coincidentally during ME2 the human NPCs swung away from Asian and were heavily European as represented by most of Cerberus. Which could've been interesting had Cerberus not been merely the excuse for homogenizing most of ME2's human head-count just to appease the bad elements of SWMs along with the rest of ME2's whitewashing jingoist tangent. In ME1 and ME3 the war was something that needed doing; in ME2 the war was a comical pretext for throwing one's weight around. ME1 and ME3 combined outweigh the downsides of ME2; MEA should know better by also rejecting ME2's regressive errors on race, sexuality and gender.

 

Even though reverse-racism isn't a real thing I still get called a reverse-racist a lot; that lets me know I'm not slipping.    

 

My proposal for good content: no human group should be allowed disproportionate representation especially where doing so would erase or demean other human groups just to appease a specific group that demands to retain outsize influence.

 

The response towards me: that is so reverse-racist against us(progress is not allowed lest we come first as inside investors!)!

 

Avoid doing this:

 

Brian Herbert's Dune prequels

 

Lowest common denominator transhuman and mech warrior porn. I did like ME's biotics and omni-tools. I did not like Cerberus' Atlas units. Yet none of these deserve to be scaled up for MEA. 

[Draining Dragon]

*sigh*

I wish people would stop using the phrase "reverse racist." There is no reverse racism. There is only racism. If a white person is prejudiced against black people, they are a racist. If a black person is prejudiced against white people, they are also a racist. That goes for all ethnic groups. The word "racism" does not imply a specific direction.

[DuskWanderer]

*sigh*

I wish people would stop using the phrase "reverse racist." There is no reverse racism. There is only racism. If a white person is prejudiced against black people, they are a racist. If a black person is prejudiced against white people, they are also a racist. That goes for all ethnic groups. The word "racism" does not imply a specific direction.

 

I know, it's rather stupid. However, you'll see a lot of minorities out there who say they can't be racist because "they aren't in a position of power" or some other nonsense like that. 

 

Anyway, I think we should ignore both of those silly people and get back to the topic. The theme I think they should do is "us as alien invader." Seriously, that's what we're doing in Andromeda, as far as I can tell. Relays may not be around because the Reapers made them, and they were Milky Way exclusive. But why should we assume there are no space-faring life on these planets? ME:A has a real chance at showing the human side of invaders who aren't your Independence Day locust types or Space Romans. That might be really interesting. That colony ship used to arrive in Andromeda probably doesn't have the space and resources to sustain indefinitely. Show me the human struggle. 

[frylock23]

I think the Milky Way cohort as aliens is fine. I always assumed it would be the theme, and so long as it doesn't devolve into some kind of Avatar type thing where we end up being the automatic bad guys either on purpose or unwittingly, I think it would be interesting.

 

I would like to see us getting established in what appears to be an unclaimed region of space only to find out it was remote surveyed by our new neighbors and ... hyjinks ensue.

 

So we don't exactly displace or disrupt anyone, but we do sort of step on someone's toes by showing up in a place they had expected to expand into.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I know, it's rather stupid. However, you'll see a lot of minorities out there who say they can't be racist because "they aren't in a position of power" or some other nonsense like that. 

 

Anyway, I think we should ignore both of those silly people and get back to the topic. The theme I think they should do is "us as alien invader." Seriously, that's what we're doing in Andromeda, as far as I can tell. Relays may not be around because the Reapers made them, and they were Milky Way exclusive. But why should we assume there are no space-faring life on these planets? ME:A has a real chance at showing the human side of invaders who aren't your Independence Day locust types or Space Romans. That might be really interesting. That colony ship used to arrive in Andromeda probably doesn't have the space and resources to sustain indefinitely. Show me the human struggle. 

 

 

Yes, racists trying to justify their racism. Happens all the time.

 

And yeah, hopefully there are aliens who have more thought put into them, and no 'male only because we can't afford to design a female'.

 

Oops probably caused more cognitive dissonance with that one. Sorry, not sorry.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Yeah, I know... It's like the romance thing at DA....

 

 

In all Bioware games, you mean. heh

[Eromenos]

Should personal attacks and graphic allusions be used during debate here?

 

Sure would've been nice had it really been a ratio of "merely" 3:1 pro-homophobia in these parts back then as you're implying. Rather more like 15:1 and the BioWare moderators were complicit. Any proposal for inclusion of M/M for ME would instantly get your thread swarmed and flamed by homophobic trolls and BioWare's policy was to shut down the threads so as to keep the atmosphere "positive," which had the intended added benefit of doing the homophobic trolls' dirty work for them. Oh yes, it is always worse than something that'd be easy to sweep under the rug. Surprised? 

 

Making a decent-looking face for any "pure" race wasn't easy for anybody though it got better as the sequels came. I simply chose a male Eurasian in the end as my main over the years and a female Indian-Latina as my "alt." I've also seen people post their East Asian avatars that far exceeded my attempts!

 

The reason I term these attacks against me as accusations that I'm a reverse-racist is because that's what they are, and the concept is also a descriptor about a falsehood in the actual world. Implications of reverse-racism are a favorite for racists. Actual reverse-racism is not real. A person of color cannot be racist. A woman cannot be sexist. A poor person cannot be classist. Example: Iceland has not yet closed its gender gap but it is miles upon miles ahead of every other country on this issue and it continues to widen its lead. But still not there yet. Meanwhile, the worst kinds of male-centric interests still dominate. Even playing field? Buzz me awake if everybody's actually still alive by that point! 

 

BioWare's attempts at diversity do come with tons of flaws, yep. Sadly for the industry and playerbase BioWare is one of few in cutting edge when it comes to North American gaming identity politics so the attempts still need to be made and they need to be encouraged, critiqued and owned. And actually, every major business does do polling and research into what flies and what doesn't for consumers. How biased/non-biased their techniques are or how effectively they influence those who make decisions can vary. Obviously relying on forumites alone is bad. But does it sometimes still influence design decisions for good or bad? Definitely, look no further than the ill-advised MMO-style maps and gameplay for DAI due to the whining about DA2's maps. For better or worse forum chatter still affects BioWare and lurkers. There's this too: think of it in the same way that college students use Wikipedia. Never ever rely solely on it, but the thing is at one's fingertips and could potentially lead to some interesting bread-crumbs elsewhere. None of which dismisses the rampant homophobia that dominated this place prior to ME3.

 

These days I see *less* transphobia than there was homophobia, so that's good. I hope MEA goes for it and ends up doing it better than DAI did.

[Seboist]

I hereby coin Draining Dragon's Law: As the length of a discussion on the Bioware Forum increases, the probability of it devolving into a debate over social justice approaches 1.

Apart from the bizarre sexual wish fulfillment that gets wrapped up in inane left wing identity politics/tribalism to give it a veneer of legitimacy, you have those that treat ingame factions like the Templars as some surrogate Ku Klux Klan and act like they're fighting for real life social issues.

 

Bioware and it's games are a helluva drug.

[Seraphim24]

Bioware and it's games

 

It's true, they seem to have a powerful impact on people, some in ways you would not have guessed. 

 

I wonder going forward what the picture will look like.. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Should personal attacks and graphic allusions be used during debate here?

Sure would've been nice had it really been a ratio of "merely" 3:1 pro-homophobia in these parts back then as you're implying. Rather more like 15:1 and the BioWare moderators were complicit. Any proposal for inclusion of M/M for ME would instantly get your thread swarmed and flamed by homophobic trolls and BioWare's policy was to shut down the threads so as to keep the atmosphere "positive," which had the intended added benefit of doing the homophobic trolls' dirty work for them. Oh yes, it is always worse than something that'd be easy to sweep under the rug. Surprised?

Making a decent-looking face for any "pure" race wasn't easy for anybody though it got better as the sequels came. I simply chose a male Eurasian in the end as my main over the years and a female Indian-Latina as my "alt." I've also seen people post their East Asian avatars that far exceeded my attempts!

The reason I term these attacks against me as accusations that I'm a reverse-racist is because that's what they are, and the concept is also a descriptor about a falsehood in the actual world. Implications of reverse-racism are a favorite for racists. Actual reverse-racism is not real. A person of color cannot be racist. A woman cannot be sexist. A poor person cannot be classist. Example: Iceland has not yet closed its gender gap but it is miles upon miles ahead of every other country on this issue and it continues to widen its lead. But still not there yet. Meanwhile, the worst kinds of male-centric interests still dominate. Even playing field? Buzz me awake if everybody's actually still alive by that point!

BioWare's attempts at diversity do come with tons of flaws, yep. Sadly for the industry and playerbase BioWare is one of few in cutting edge when it comes to North American gaming identity politics so the attempts still need to be made and they need to be encouraged, critiqued and owned. And actually, every major business does do polling and research into what flies and what doesn't for consumers. How biased/non-biased their techniques are or how effectively they influence those who make decisions can vary. Obviously relying on forumites alone is bad. But does it sometimes still influence design decisions for good or bad? Definitely, look no further than the ill-advised MMO-style maps and gameplay for DAI due to the whining about DA2's maps. For better or worse forum chatter still affects BioWare and lurkers. There's this too: think of it in the same way that college students use Wikipedia. Never ever rely solely on it, but the thing is at one's fingertips and could potentially lead to some interesting bread-crumbs elsewhere. None of which dismisses the rampant homophobia that dominated this place prior to ME3.

These days I see *less* transphobia than there was homophobia, so that's good. I hope MEA goes for it and ends up doing it better than DAI did.

I'm truly sorry for my last post to you. I guess I got carried away.

I suggest we stop the off topic discussion in this thread.

I'd appreciate the opportunity to explain to you in a polite rational and constructive manner in pm's why I don't agree with what you wrote above, but it's probably best left out of this thread now.

I'll just say I agree on the homophobia part though. I've come across it lots of times in real life. I'm tired of debunking those people too.

[Eromenos]

I'm truly sorry for my last post to you. I guess I got carried away.

I suggest we stop the off topic discussion in this thread.

I'd appreciate the opportunity to explain to you in a polite rational and constructive manner in pm's why I don't agree with what you wrote above, but it's probably best left out of this thread now.

I'll just say I agree on the homophobia part though. I've come across it lots of times in real life. I'm tired of debunking those people too.

Hi,

 

None of this has been off-topic. But, hit me up in PM.

[Seraphim24]

I would stick the notion that being a mercenary man is in any way fun or enjoyable for anyone (ME, esp Renegade path)