240 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

please no synthetics as people storyline

 

for the love all the Gods the Old and the New please

[Steelcan]

 

Metaphors about indigenous oppression fall under this. If there's a conflict that attempts to reflect early European colonization, it is very easy for it to be heavy handed, especially if they deal with archetypes like "the noble savage."

well if I want my fix of colonization I'll look to an RTS to tell that story, I don't trust BioWare to go about that kind of story with anything besides as "FEEL BAD" sign that is well acquainted with the backside of my head

[Shechinah]

please no synthetics as people storyline

 

for the love all the Gods the Old and the New please

 

I do not mind the synthetics in the first couple of games as I found what they were doing with them fascinating but then came along Mass Effect 3 where synthetic wanted to be like the biological races down to religious concepts such as having souls. That was... disappointing. 

 

[Prince Enigmatic]

Yeah, synthetics "finding a little humanity" has been done in Mass Effect to varying reception, I didn't mind it too much with EDI, when it happened to Legion too I thought really? and as a science-fiction trope it is overused. (though I did like the recent Ex Machina, but i'm extremely biased towards anything with Alicia Vikander and Oscar Isaac)

[Catastrophy]

I like the mommy issues thing, we could have a whole "Norman Bates" aka "Psycho" thing going

 

Edit: If the youngsters here knows who that is......

 

"MOTHER!"

[Undead Han]

Humans Are Special and the Planet of Hats tropes. 

 

That said I also wouldn't want them to go in the completely opposite direction of Humans Are Special, and roll with a portrayal of humans as being terrible and inferior to the aliens in every regard. That would be equally bad.

[Toddler Tosser]

Romances.

[Fogg]

Almost all RPG's have a little intro and after 20 minutes someone comes to you, says you're very special and makes clear that you are the only one that can save te universe. Just for once I'd like to have a more modest part. 

[Artona]

World saving. Can't we save the city? Or ourselves?

[Vortex13]

"Are robots alive?" Seriously played out, especially the anthropomorphic nonsense version involving AI magically starting to manifest human emotions and wanting to become real boys.

It'll be there, though. An abandonment of the primary theme of the Shepard trilogy would be tantamount to admitting the utter garbage manner in how it was written in, and Mac probably has too much pride to do that.

 

 

This.

 

I have no problems with Andromeda having us encounter a synthetic race of alien robots, but could we please have this new AI NOT want to become just like us organics, trying to understand this crazy emotion called love, etc.

 

Say, I've got a nutty idea. Why don't we have a robotic race that actually likes being robotic, and has no desire to emulate us organics? Better still, we could have these non-human synthetics operate on logic and cold machine deduction, giving them a different perspective from us, but this does not mean that said synthetics are automatically all meat bag hating murderbots. 

 

Seriously, why is that we only seem to have two options for AI in fiction? It's either Pinocchio human wannabes like Commander Data, or evil robot overlords like Skynet that want to kill us all because "reasons". Why can't we have robots, that like being robots, while at the same time are willing to work with organic species?

 

 

Less humanocentrism please. You have a galaxy's worth of aliens. In fact, two galaxy's worth now. Use them. What's the point of population a universe with vast amounts of alien races if you're just going to make them sidekicks to the Special Humans?

 

 

Agreed. 

 

Can we please see more, and interact more with the 'alien' aliens? All this potential, and outside of some very, very brief glimpses into some truly unique species (ME 1 Hanar and Elcor, the Rachni, ME 2 Geth etc) we are instead bombarded with humans, rubber fore-headed humans, and daddy issues.

[Artona]

Can we please see more, and interact more with the 'alien' aliens? All this potential, and outside of some very, very brief glimpses into some truly unique species (ME 1 Hanar and Elcor, the Rachni, ME 2 Geth etc) we are instead bombarded with humans, rubber fore-headed humans, and daddy issues.

Yeah, it annoyed me that elcor and hanar just exist to provide comic relief. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anything that deprives the player of control over the protagonist.

Beyond that, it doesn't matter. Themes aren't real.

[Vortex13]

Yeah, it annoyed me that elcor and hanar just exist to provide comic relief. 

 

 

Those two and the Volus, I mean why even bother creating alien species to inhabit your universe if you are just going to turn them into bumbling meme factories? I mean it's not like we didn't have any interesting lore and potential stories to tell about these aliens.

 

For example, the Elcor are extremely patient and long term focused, even moreso than the Asari in many cases, they are literally the strongest species of the known galaxy (seriously, the Krogan have nothing on them in terms of raw physical power) I mean, they carry freaking tank cannons on their backs into battle, and they speak the way they do for other species' (like us humans) benefit.

 

There's even a dialog scene with Garus in ME 1 that mentions him tracking an Elcor serial killer operating on the Citadel during his C-Sec days, where is more stuff like that? 

 

But no, they're just big, bumbling idiots that talk too slow to function in normal society. A very lazy copout for an alien species that is why more interesting (IMO) than some human character whining about how much their father never loved them as a child.

[Ahriman]

Organics vs synthetics.

Humans and aliens are equal, but humans are equalest of them all.

[fhs33721]

As others said before. Quit it with the humanity is special garbage. Especially if the prominent alien races are basically humans with blue skin/in exosuits/with some natural armor and have mostly the same emotions, values and range of personalities as humans. It's just stupid.

[Giantdeathrobot]

This.

 

I have no problems with Andromeda having us encounter a synthetic race of alien robots, but could we please have this new AI NOT want to become just like us organics, trying to understand this crazy emotion called love, etc.

 

Say, I've got a nutty idea. Why don't we have a robotic race that actually likes being robotic, and has no desire to emulate us organics? Better still, we could have these non-human synthetics operate on logic and cold machine deduction, giving them a different perspective from us, but this does not mean that said synthetics are automatically all meat bag hating murderbots. 

 

Seriously, why is that we only seem to have two options for AI in fiction? It's either Pinocchio human wannabes like Commander Data, or evil robot overlords like Skynet that want to kill us all because "reasons". Why can't we have robots, that like being robots, while at the same time are willing to work with organic species?

 

 

So you want the ME2 Geth then  .

[Vortex13]

So you want the ME2 Geth then  .

 

 

Anything written or dreamed up by Chris L'Etoile is fine with me. 

[maia0407]

Those two and the Volus, I mean why even bother creating alien species to inhabit your universe if you are just going to turn them into bumbling meme factories? I mean it's not like we didn't have any interesting lore and potential stories to tell about these aliens.
 
For example, the Elcor are extremely patient and long term focused, even moreso than the Asari in many cases, they are literally the strongest species of the known galaxy (seriously, the Krogan have nothing on them in terms of raw physical power) I mean, they carry freaking tank cannons on their backs into battle, and they speak the way they do for other species' (like us humans) benefit.
 
There's even a dialog scene with Garus in ME 1 that mentions him tracking an Elcor serial killer operating on the Citadel during his C-Sec days, where is more stuff like that? 
 
But no, they're just big, bumbling idiots that talk too slow to function in normal society. A very lazy copout for an alien species that is why more interesting (IMO) than some human character whining about how much their father never loved them as a child.

Yes! I want to stumble on the ancient and abandoned AI sitting alone in the darkness of space. It's so old and seen so much that it's not interested in us and just calculates ever more complex mathematical theorems. We need its help and have to figure out how to get its attention, how to communicate with it and convince it that were even worth communicating with. On second thought, I should write that story, lol!

[Silvery]

I see you beat me to the punch. I was about to type in the same thing. I hate the whole "Humans rock! We're all special snowflakes!" Thing.

 

But I want to be a special snowflake! 

 

 

well if I want my fix of colonization I'll look to an RTS to tell that story, I don't trust BioWare to go about that kind of story with anything besides as "FEEL BAD" sign that is well acquainted with the backside of my head

 

Yeah, there would definitely be a very fine line to have to balance with a potential colonization theme. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

No mind reading or mind controlling aliens.

No absurdly long life spans.

[Aimi]

can

can we have competent, non-corrupt, non-evil politicians

Mass Effect as a series has, like, zero

instead most of the heroic figures are soldiers who whine about how politicians get in the way of "getting things done", because military juntas really are the best thing ever

[Seraphim24]

can we have competent, non-corrupt, non-evil politicians

 

I would be curious as to some RL examples of this phenemenon... not that I don't have some in mind myself.. but you know, for fun and profit.

[Laughing_Man]

Can we not have Villains excused for their sins because of "Mind Control"? Thanks.

 

(that's a Bioware theme that really needs to die: Meredith, Saren, Illusive man, etc.)

[Quarian Master Race]

I do not mind the synthetics in the first couple of games as I found what they were doing with them fascinating but then came along Mass Effect 3 where synthetic wanted to be like the biological races down to religious concepts such as having souls. That was... disappointing. 

Nah, it didn't start with ME3. The geth had a religion and engaged in behavior such as kneeling before "shrines" as early as ME1. The mind numbingly stupid "soul" question, along with other anthropomorphic nonsense like Legion the stalking Shepard fangirl, that also feels "anger" and desires "revenge" against the quarians (choose Tali in their on ship argument) popped up in ME2, long before the utter schlock that was the ME3 portrayal of the geth. As much as Chris L'Etoile seemed to actually have an idea of how an AI should realistically function, and using some of his writing in the codex and for Legion tried to pull the geth away from science fantasy nonsense like robots magically developing "the feels", that isn't what they were ultimately envisioned as by the higher ups I think, which is part of the reason why he left.

Look at the start of the series. The entire catalyst for the geth rebelling in the first place was because they started asking questions like "am I alive, why am I here",  and then later they developed religion as a means to answer them, which is just catastrophically dumb. An AI wouldn't give a damn about metaphysics unless doing so were useful as a means to maximizing its utility function, and in doing so it wouldn't be for its own sake anyway.

It's just a fundamental misunderstanding of how both animal biology and hypothetical machine intelligences operate, based upon anthropomorphism. The primary hypothetical concern in regard to the real world field of artificial intelligence is not spooky emergent consciousness, emotions and morality, but simply the ability to make high"quality" decisions. Here, "quality" refers to the expected outcome utility of actions taken, where the utility function is, presumably, specified by the (human) designer. Now we have potential problems:

 

1) The utility function may not be perfectly aligned with the values of the human race (or in ME's case humanlike alien), which are (at best) very difficult to generalize and nail down.

2)Any sufficiently capable intelligent system will prefer to ensure its own continued existence and to acquire physical and computational resources, not for its own sake, but to succeed in its assigned task. Essentially, a system that is optimizing a function of n variables, where the objective depends on a subset of size k<n, will often set the remaining unconstrained variables to extreme values; if one of those unconstrained variables is actually something we care about (lets say, whether the machine can still optimize the n variables while violently subjugating, altering or wiping out most of the human species), the solution found may be highly undesirable to us. Because the intelligence is infinitely more capable than we are, it would be able to outmaneuver our attempts to modify it.

An AI wouldn't care about rebelling over the question of if it has a "soul" or is "alive" according to some human definition of such, and it would be very much aware of its purpose for existence. Now, it is theoretically possible to develop the sensory hardware and deliberately program an AI with humanlike emotions (I can't conceive of any reason why one would do so, but it might be possible), or for an AI to develop something analogous to a simulation of them as a means to whatever its ultimate utility goal is if it is somehow useful to do so (say it involves interacting with humans), but it wouldn't spontaneously start caring about having a "soul" and building shrines to the Reapers for no logically conceivable reason. 
 

This.

 

I have no problems with Andromeda having us encounter a synthetic race of alien robots, but could we please have this new AI NOT want to become just like us organics, trying to understand this crazy emotion called love, etc.

 

Say, I've got a nutty idea. Why don't we have a robotic race that actually likes being robotic, and has no desire to emulate us organics? Better still, we could have these non-human synthetics operate on logic and cold machine deduction, giving them a different perspective from us, but this does not mean that said synthetics are automatically all meat bag hating murderbots. 

 

Seriously, why is that we only seem to have two options for AI in fiction? It's either Pinocchio human wannabes like Commander Data, or evil robot overlords like Skynet that want to kill us all because "reasons". Why can't we have robots, that like being robots, while at the same time are willing to work with organic species?

Indeed, the idea of an emotionless superintelligence for some reason developing the goal of being more "human" when it presents absolutely no conceivable advantage is utterly preposterous, as is the idea that they'd want to start destroying all meatbags for no other reason than because it "feels" they're inferior or whatever (ala Reapers, Cylons or Agent Smith types).

I think you'd like this paper. It primarily deals with discussing anthropomorphism in regard to fictional AI, but talks a little bit about it in regard to how we tend to subconsciously apply human characteristics to fictional intelligent beings in general.
https://intelligence...osNegFactor.pdf
 

[Shechinah]

I thought the shrines and the kneeling shown in the first Mass Effect was only done by the geth that broke away from Legion's geth?