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[O'Voutie O'Rooney]

Essentially, anything that tries to shame the player for being human. "Humans are special" is often criticized, and rightly so as far as I'm concerned. However, the total reverse of that is "Humans are the real monsters," which I don't think is much better. And unfortunately, that seems to be a go to for some science fiction writers who want to avoid treating humans as deific.

 

Metaphors about indigenous oppression fall under this. If there's a conflict that attempts to reflect early European colonization, it is very easy for it to be heavy handed, especially if they deal with archetypes like "the noble savage."

I hereby award you a sincerely imagined gold trophy for today's best comment.

[frylock23]

It's strange, but I'm starting to see it as a real phenomenon in these parts.

 

Like being alien or some fantasy race is some metaphor for playing a minority or something. A way for people to feel smug about having "race issues"... when they're probably suburban white kids. In turn, people who play humans are made to feel bad or just plain "boring" for doing so.

 

It's modern education for the kids these days. That's my feeling on it anyhow. I never saw any value to it, and I don't want a game where I am forced to self-flagellate just to complete it.

[Valhallix]

Yeah there were Daddy issues in ME, but atleast most of them were developed well (besides Jacob) even Miranda's ended up turning into something more by Mass Effect 3. Thane and Samara gave us a deeper peak into their character. It was worse in Dragon age. There wasn't even a mission or a progressing arc with Dorian's daddy issues just a Maury show like showdown that was centered around nothing more than sexuality. I skip the whole coversation every time lol. Atleast Miranda's mission gaves us some memorable scenes like the one asari getting blasted across the screen. Also Jack's comments toward Miranda if you bring her when the Merc rags on her outfit.

[straykat]

I thought the Kolyat stuff was pretty cool. Not just the daddy issues, but it had fun choices. Like the interrogation or shooting that Turian.

 

Would have been even better if they carried through their original plan in ME3. Thane or Kolyat had bigger roles.

[Valhallix]

Lore inconsistencies, there's a few of those big and small like the turian senators "Ah yes reapers", the illogical switch to thermal clips from cooldown reloads, why no one knows what quarians look like, why the reapers needed sovereign to push the bloody switch on the citadel to get to milky way etc etc.

But my biggest gripe has to those cinematic cases where you get to kill a krogan. Let's say for example the one where you have to shoot Wrex, Shepard literally kills him, a krogan battlemaster and the best at that, with a pistol, a ****** pistol! Really bioware! He should've at least deserved an M920 Cain.

The biggest wtf in Mass Effect is how Shepard is the first human spectre, saved the galaxy twice, is told to the player how famous he is, and yet there are still people who don't know what he looks or sounds like LOL.

That one chick with the Shepard VI in the refugee camp comes to mind. "Oh the one based on that war hero", dude you're standing right next to it.

[Addictress]

I hereby award you a sincerely imagined gold trophy for today's best comment.

There are many ways the European colonization thing can be handled without going the 'noble savage, last of the mohicans' route.

 

They can have corrupt natives just as well. Perhaps the moral question could be, even if the natives are even worse than the invaders, are you still justified in taking away their civilization? It would be like Earth being invaded by 'morally superior' aliens who have less cruelty and suffering in their society, and then we would expect in any videogame that humans would still stand up to it. Even if undeserving.

[straykat]

Even if someone wanted to slam colonization, who is it being directed at? No one is responsible here. Or is it just some abstract concept of Westerners/Caucasians that are guilty and need to be taught a lesson?

 

Besides that, those colonial powers didn't give a crap about anyone's life. Look at WW1. The whole world was expendable back then, just so these guys could play their games. In the end, they didn't care about indigenous people or their own native soldiers or citizens. It's so ****** stupid to fast forward 100 years and turn it all on yourself....somehow.

 

edit: Sorry for the rant

[Laughing_Man]

Even if someone wanted to slam colonization, who is it being directed at? No one is responsible here. Or is it just some abstract concept of Westerners/Caucasians that are guilty and need to be taught a lesson?

 

Besides that, those colonial powers didn't give a crap about anyone's life. Look at WW1. The whole world was expendable back then, just so these guys could play their games. In the end, they didn't care about indigenous people or their own native soldiers or citizens. It's so ****** stupid to fast forward 100 years and turn it all on yourself....somehow.

 

edit: Sorry for the rant

 

It's a sort of (un)intellectual masturbation with progressive aftertaste.

[Dean_the_Young]

You had me until the romance bit. I agree David was over the top.

 

It all seemed so harmless...

 

You've been carrying that banner for awhile though (the romance with crew thing)... gotta hand it to you.

 

Thank ye, thank ye.

 

 

I would just say no romance at all, instead of going about it that way.

 

 

Thing is, I think there are a lot of good stories you can tell about relationships within the chain of command.

 

You can have the drama (and the Consequences) of the leadership authority figure not being trusted and presumed biased for the LI.

 

You could have the tensions and UST of an emotional connection while the physical is barred by regulations.

 

You can have an affair in which the characters do their best to circumvent the obstacles, legal and otherwise.

 

But you can't have any of those without a relationship in the first place... or without recognizing that there might be an objection.

 

 

(But seriously- one of my favorite fictional romances of all time is a military superior-subordinate relationship. Roy Mustang and Liza Hawkeye from Full Metal Alchemist.)
 

[straykat]

Oh... well if you want it employed in the story better, then I'm all for it then.

 

I always thought you meant it was so taboo it couldn't be done. But tension sounds good.

[Dean_the_Young]

Just one to add for now: Indoctrination. This is a plot device that was badly mishandled throughout the series (especially since the very obvious move of having characters we actually like and care about get indoctrinated never happened). Indoctrination was generally used to move characters from point A in their arc to point B without having to do any of the heavy lifting of character development (i.e. we need TIM to go from ambiguous to outright evil, so instead of having some inciting incident change his motivations in a plausible way, we'll just say he's indoctrinated and be done with it). Villains are generally more interesting when they act on motives that are genuinely their own, rather than imposed by some outside source; indoctrination deprived both Saren and TIM of agency as characters.

 

More to the point, they weren't necessary either. What, really, would have changed if TIM wasn't indoctrinated and simply making a power grab? Or Saren?

 

Aside from removing agency, indoctrination (and mind control in general) destroys any tension or legitimacy of the affected person's points. A free willed person can be misguided, but make good points- but an indoctrinated person? Anything bad with what they say- which is to say, anything you don't like- can be blamed on the indoctrination. It removes controversy not only in opposing them (who mournes for a mind-controlled mook? It practically a mercy kill.), but also their ideas, because their ideas have no worth because they aren't their own.

 

Like you say, it was misued- but in my view, it never should have been used as a major force at all. The drama would be all the more formidable if most of the foes we face aren't mere puppets, but people with actual views and differences from us.

 

Might clash with the messiah figure idea, but eh. No big loss.

[frylock23]

The biggest wtf in Mass Effect is how Shepard is the first human spectre, saved the galaxy twice, is told to the player how famous he is, and yet there are still people who don't know what he looks or sounds like LOL.

That one chick with the Shepard VI in the refugee camp comes to mind. "Oh the one based on that war hero", dude you're standing right next to it.

 

Although to be fair look at all the man on the street interviews where otherwise ordinary people have no clue who politically or culturally relevant people are when shown their photos.

 

Maybe this chick just isn't plugged into current events.

[straykat]

More to the point, they weren't necessary either. What, really, would have changed if TIM wasn't indoctrinated and simply making a power grab? Or Saren?

 

Aside from removing agency, indoctrination (and mind control in general) destroys any tension or legitimacy of the affected person's points. A free willed person can be misguided, but make good points- but an indoctrinated person? Anything bad with what they say- which is to say, anything you don't like- can be blamed on the indoctrination. It removes controversy not only in opposing them (who mournes for a mind-controlled mook? It practically a mercy kill.), but also their ideas, because their ideas have no worth because they aren't their own.

 

Like you say, it was misued- but in my view, it never should have been used as a major force at all. The drama would be all the more formidable if most of the foes we face aren't mere puppets, but people with actual views and differences from us.

 

Might clash with the messiah figure idea, but eh. No big loss.

 

I would extend further and say there never should have been Reapers at all. But since there is, these guys are pretty well done... as far as stooges go.

[Lady Artifice]

I would extend further and say there never should have been Reapers at all. But since there is, these guys are pretty well done... as far as stooges go.

 

Who would you have had as a primary antagonist? 

[straykat]

Who would you have had as a primary antagonist? 

 

If there had been no Reapers?

 

I'd just make it about Spectres. Maybe Saren could still be in it, but he'd be more like the first half of the novel he was in. Just a ruthless Spectre. You could still play up the Anderson story maybe and have more anti-human sentiment in the game. Shep caught in the middle of that. I don't know.

 

I'd keep it fairly normal, and keep the setting alive for many stories. The world had more potential, but the Reapers swallowed it whole. They could have used the elements of the first games quite a bit, and still not had Reapers.

[KaiserShep]

Who would you have had as a primary antagonist? 

 

 

I think it might have been fun if the primary antagonist was the asari, and Tevos was some sort of dark lord in the making. 

[straykat]

I think it might have been fun if the primary antagonist was the asari, and Tevos was some sort of dark lord in the making. 

 

Or that.... could work. I guess.

[KaiserShep]

Or that.... could work. I guess.

 

 

Heh, just imagine it. Asari spies led Saren to the beacon so they could maintain their grip on technological superiority, a plan that ultimately backfired because Saren was apparently in league with a reaper, and they want to spread peace throughout the galaxy under the iron fist of the asari empire, like how Tevos is in bed with Aria to maintain control over Omega and its resources, and how other asari use espionage to snag corporate secrets from human companies like Binary Helix. They're no longer interested in sharing a council with the warmongering turians and the mad scientist salarians or the human meddlers that think they're entitled to things other species have held on to for centuries. 

[straykat]

Heh, just imagine it. Asari spies led Saren to the beacon so they could maintain their grip on technological superiority, a plan that ultimately backfired because Saren was apparently in league with a reaper, and they want to spread peace throughout the galaxy under the iron fist of the asari empire, like how Tevos is in bed with Aria to maintain control over Omega and its resources, and how other asari use espionage to snag corporate secrets from human companies like Binary Helix. They're no longer interested in sharing a council with the warmongering turians and the mad scientist salarians or the human meddlers that think they're entitled to things other species have held on to for centuries. 

 

Damn.. you almost had me until you brought the Reapers into it too.

[Bowlcuts]

Yeah, no more organics vs synthetics garbo and Pinocchio robos. Every time I think about what Biower did to my beloved Geth, makes me wanna cry tbh.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

(But seriously- one of my favorite fictional romances of all time is a military superior-subordinate relationship. Roy Mustang and Liza Hawkeye from Full Metal Alchemist.)

I would love to have a romance like Roy Mustang's and Riza Hawkeye's. Those two have a love for each other deeper than almost any other couple ever depicted, and yet they never have sex, kiss, or even flirt with each other because they are both in the military. It is the ultimate love, not lust romance.  

[Prince Enigmatic]

Playing through Mass Effect sometimes is like watching a lot of Michael Bay movies.

 

Whereas with Michael Bay there's cringey patriotism and American flags shoved into every frame, Mass Effect there is just so much returns to humanity as this super special species to just emerge out of nowhere and become the saviours of the galaxy for a decade or two, enough to warrant all the other species in the galaxy to drop everything and help Earth for humanity special/patriotism. 

 

Andromeda is having humanity at a sort of disadvantage, at least at the beginning, trying to find a new home in this new galaxy.

 

I've seen colonization mentioned, and I'd like to think this is handled both maturely, and not falling into an awful matter of absolutes where clear good and clear evil come into play. Nor should it just borrow from other stories handling this, rather I'd like to hope it would take a more original look at colonizing new planets in a new galaxy we have no real knowledge of to prepare us for what we might find.

 

I'd hope that with this in mind, humanity are the bestest is dialed down to zero, since we know we aren't the only Milky Way species knocking around Andromeda, so I'd like there to be equality in how all the Mass Effect species are depicted.

[SnakeCode]

Daddy issues.

[Laughing_Man]

I would love to have a romance like Roy Mustang's and Riza Hawkeye's. Those two have a love for each other deeper than almost any other couple ever depicted, and yet they never have sex, kiss, or even flirt with each other because they are both in the military. It is the ultimate love, not lust romance.

 

Or maybe, the sexual tension just makes it all look like more than it actually is.

 

Maybe they should have a few hours of monkey sex and figure out that actually they might work better as friends with benefits...

 

(the notion that love and lust are mutually exclusive is rather immature)

[Shechinah]

(the notion that love and lust are mutually exclusive is rather immature)

 

So is the notion that love and lust are mutually inclusive.