78 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

What it says to me is that he was either careless or malicious. If it's not the latter (and conversations with him if you recruit him do seem to indicate that he did not necessarily intend Cailan's death), then it's the former. Yeah, let's just not pay any attention to the great, gaping hole in the floor that leads to tunnels that come close to the valley where the battle will be. That can't possibly matter, can it?

 

Again, the implication is that the floor caved in during the battle, catching the tower's garrison completely off-guard. The hole wasn't there during the search, or obviously it would have been explored and guarded. And again, not pulling complete scout reports out of his ass doesn't make him any less of a general, it just makes him one forced to work with incomplete information during the battle. Careless or malicious? Don't be ridiculous. Sometimes you're put in a hopeless situation no matter how smart or competent you are, and nobody can make the right decisions all the time using info they don't actually have.

 

This is probably the thinnest rationale for criticizing Loghain I've heard yet.

[Asha'bellanar]

Again, the implication is that the floor caved in during the battle, catching the tower's garrison completely off-guard. The hole wasn't there during the search, or obviously it would have been explored and guarded. And again, not pulling complete scout reports out of his ass doesn't make him any less of a general, it just makes him one forced to work with incomplete information during the battle. Careless or malicious? Don't be ridiculous. Sometimes you're put in a hopeless situation no matter how smart or competent you are, and nobody can make the right decisions all the time using info they don't actually have.

 

This is probably the thinnest rationale for criticizing Loghain I've heard yet.

Where is the implication that the floor caved in during the battle? I never picked that up in multiple playthroughs. I'm asking seriously, because I want to know. The whole Battle of Ostagar thing has a lot of interest for me, and while I think a lot of it is probably down to just plain sloppy writing, I'd be interested to hear where this comes up.

 

By the way, you don't need to be condescending to make your point. Just saying.

[ThomasBlaine]

Where is the implication that the floor caved in during the battle? I never picked that up in multiple playthroughs. I'm asking seriously, because I want to know. The whole Battle of Ostagar thing has a lot of interest for me, and while I think a lot of it is probably down to just plain sloppy writing, I'd be interested to hear where this comes up.

 

By the way, you don't need to be condescending to make your point. Just saying.

 

It's implied because it's the only thing that makes any sense. Darkspawn have attacked the tower despite it being apparently unaccesible from the battle down below, you enter it, you clear out the ground floor and you find a giant hole in the ground despite the tower otherwise being in perfect condition.

 

The obvious implication, and where the dramatic value of this discovery is, is "Oh, ****, they burrowed up through the floor! No wonder the guards weren't prepared!", not "Oh my god, a giant hole! Was that there this morning? Did you miss this in the search? Anyone? Helloooo? Whatever, I guess you people just suck at securing buildings. This is all your fault! Your general is an idiot for not knowing that this would happen."

 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be condescending, but your argument is essentially that Loghain must really be an incompetent military commander despite his proven and demonstrated competence because his scouts didn't return sane if at all and he didn't expect the enemy to burrow up under a vital strategic point far removed that they couldn't possibly have known about, being only marginally more intelligent than animals.

 

Would Churchill have predicted that, do you think? Bismarck? Sun Tsu? I doubt it. No real world strategist would realistically have been blamed for such a freak event, and neither should Loghain.

[Illegitimus]

Where is the implication that the floor caved in during the battle? I never picked that up in multiple playthroughs. I'm asking seriously, because I want to know. The whole Battle of Ostagar thing has a lot of interest for me, and while I think a lot of it is probably down to just plain sloppy writing, I'd be interested to hear where this comes up.

 

By the way, you don't need to be condescending to make your point. Just saying.

 

 

The biggest indication is that the tower's basement was being searched by the soldiers assigned to hold it.  It would have been difficult for Loghain to sell making a tower being actively fought over a the linchpin to his plan to anyone.  When we go back I recall that pit leads to a tunnel that goes straight to the battlefield.  This was actually a standard siege warfare technique for any force that was unable to find traitors to open the gates.  You dig under the walls and come up inside.  The darkspawn hurlocks are superb diggers, second only to the real dwarves.  If the soldiers had discovered the tunnel and where it went the day before the battle, they would have collapsed it as a matter of course.  The reason they didn't was because the tunnel was finished during the battle.  In fact the battle was probably timed to coincide with the finishing of the tunnel.   Had the defenders plan been just to stay behind the walls, the frontal surface assault would have been just the diversion so that the tunnel eruption would have gone unnoticed until the defenders found their selves attacked from behind.