33 réponses à ce sujet

[Agi_]

I always played a ranged char and i'm a tactical screen user and with just one melee you have very little to micromanage, lets say when you do a stun or a freeze to look if one of the ranged has a trigger ready and shoot it and be sure they dont leave the stone where you put the with hold position to move inside a flame puddle

 

Now i'm playing a melee rogue that needs a lot of micromanaging to move around and flank and i noticed that is i leave my friends alone they do weird things like Fade Step two meters away toward a corner     Hook n Tackle to Full Draw   Caltrops, Leap Shot, Hook n Tackle in this order  that's Varric's favoured combo

 

From the movies posted i see that you almost all play in real time that means you companions are left to the AI, how do you survive the madness; if i leave my rogue alone for three seconds he immediatly walks in a fire mine to try stab a caster even if i left him at the back of an archer to finish him and the caster is taken care of by the tank.

 

I well know that you can disable a skill or set him preferred but there is no more that wonderful and flexible feature of DA 2 

If surrounded by 3 enemies mind blast

If 3 or more enemies clustered do AOE etc

 

Every fight takes a lifetime to end being in pause to micromanage everithing for 99% of the time, need some hints

 

[arkngt]

if i leave my rogue alone for three seconds he immediatly walks in a fire mine to try stab a caster even if i left him at the back of an archer to finish him and the caster is taken care of by the tank.

 

Have you turned off AI for your char? Annoyingly enough, they tend to do some things automatically even if it is turned off (i.e. automatically attack after doing a flank attack, even if I wanted my char to stay in the shadows, for example), but it helps a lot.

[Agi_]

Have you turned off AI for your char? Annoyingly enough, they tend to do some things automatically even if it is turned off (i.e. automatically attack after doing a flank attack, even if I wanted my char to stay in the shadows, for example), but it helps a lot.

 

Havent tried to turn AI off, will try soon now that you suggest that.

 

DAI AI is too little configurable and probably turning it off could be the solution; for example in TARGETING you can set the char to attack the target of your controlled char OR to protect someone but you cannot tell him to keep attacking the last target and switch to someone else ONLY after finishing the job; you set the fire using mage to attack the desire demon switch to the tank thats engaging the rage one and the mage starts pouring useless fire on it too leaving the fire vulnerable desire alone.

 

EDIT

I'm a melee rogue complete newbie; dont you go out of stealth when you do an attack, apart flank attack with the enhancement that puts you back in shadow again

[sjsharp2011]

tbh I tend to just let the computer handle my colleagues while I stick to my character.Most of the time we come out OK though but then I make sure we don't wander into zones where we're overpowered.by the enemies. The only time I tend to chasnge this is if I'm up against a particcularly touigh bosssuch as the final boss in the Descent DLC. Agains this bossI usually let my warrior get up close and personal and attack while my rogue s and mages stay out of range and strike at a distance but that's more because it's quite deadly at close range as i ttends to take anyone who tries to get up close and personal with it out quick.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I let the AI handle the NPC companions. I do set weaker ones to defend my PC and, the strongest to follow self. The rest follow me. Keeps the most squishy ones close to me so I can hit them with Healing mist if needed, lets the strong ones go for the hardest targets and, leaves one or two helping me kill my target.

[Agi_]

tbh I tend to just let the computer handle my colleagues while I stick to my character.Most of the time we come out OK though but then I make sure we don't wander into zones where we're overpowered.by the enemies. The only time I tend to chasnge this is if I'm up against a particcularly touigh bosssuch as the final boss in the Descent DLC. Agains this bossI usually let my warrior get up close and personal and attack while my rogue s and mages stay out of range and strike at a distance but that's more because it's quite deadly at close range as i ttends to take anyone who tries to get up close and personal with it out quick.

 

I havent played yet the descent, but if you are playing a melee rogue you cannot have the mages follow you if you go engage a melee AOE boss; i guess the DLC boss is something like the Avvar boss in the Mire, obviously under steroid, someone able to stun and heavily damage all around him thats not a tank with shield wall

One tanking, and eventually dodging away with combat roll when an hevy attack is coming and all others hitting from far away is ok with three ranged attackers

 

I let the AI handle the NPC companions. I do set weaker ones to defend my PC and, the strongest to follow self. The rest follow me. Keeps the most squishy ones close to me so I can hit them with Healing mist if needed, lets the strong ones go for the hardest targets and, leaves one or two helping me kill my target.

 

Same as above; if i fight with a melee rogue, that requires a lot of positioning the last thing i want is to have the mages near me i want them to stay at the extreme limit of their ranged attack and dont ever THINK to come close

[nightscrawl]

I let the AI handle the NPC companions. I do set weaker ones to defend my PC and, the strongest to follow self. The rest follow me. Keeps the most squishy ones close to me so I can hit them with Healing mist if needed, lets the strong ones go for the hardest targets and, leaves one or two helping me kill my target.

 

To be honest, I still don't fully understand the difference between follow and defend. I play a tank. I want ranged to stay ranged, but attack what I'm attacking. I also want melee to attack what I'm attacking. But I also want melee to run away from AOE and crap and not stay near me just because I'm standing in fire or whatever.

 

And what the hell does follow self do?

[arkngt]

Havent tried to turn AI off, will try soon now that you suggest that.

 

DAI AI is too little configurable and probably turning it off could be the solution; for example in TARGETING you can set the char to attack the target of your controlled char OR to protect someone but you cannot tell him to keep attacking the last target and switch to someone else ONLY after finishing the job; you set the fire using mage to attack the desire demon switch to the tank thats engaging the rage one and the mage starts pouring useless fire on it too leaving the fire vulnerable desire alone.

 

EDIT

I'm a melee rogue complete newbie; dont you go out of stealth when you do an attack, apart flank attack with the enhancement that puts you back in shadow again

 

Yes, but that was what I meant. After a flank attack (with enhancement), when the char is in shadows, she tends to do an automatic attack immediately, which makes her go out of stealth. Even with AI off. I'd of course prefer to stay in shadows, doing an ability attack rather than a wimpy auto-attack, or even move to another enemy etc.

[Agi_]

In fact i noticed that rogues require a lot more micro management than any other class.

Warrions once you set War Cry to preferred cna be fired and forgetted, maybe they wont do the best thing but considering that all you ask is to stay in front of the enemy and be hit on the head they do their job.

 

Mages, apart Vivienne that's crazy and likes to melee, usually stay out of trouble; the problem is that if they enter trouble they are unable to go out by themselves their use of fadestep is very subpar and they almost never fadestep toward an empty area; when you see the red icon 'Solas low health' he's usually in a corner with two enemies around and just used fadestep to go there.

 

Ranged rogues have the annoying abit to make a step forward once in a while, even if commanded to hold ground, and this can put them in danger, i keep them with leap shot disabled because the AI uses it always from a range where it's useless.

 

A melee rogue is a different job; you are always moving to flank, evading to avoid AOE, flank attack when the enemy turns, a real lot of work that doesnt allow you to control too much the other guys. If you leave Cole alone he will be dead in ten seconds, no more, that's why i never used them

[PapaCharlie9]

A melee rogue is a different job; you are always moving to flank, evading to avoid AOE, flank attack when the enemy turns, a real lot of work that doesnt allow you to control too much the other guys. If you leave Cole alone he will be dead in ten seconds, no more, that's why i never used them

I tend to agree. Of all the classes, DW Rogue does need the most management to get the most out of the build.

Another complication is setting party members to Follow Controlled (you), when you spend most of your time in stealth, confuses the AI.

So, here's what I recommend:

Set up one of your other party members to be a tank. Let's say Cassandra. Set Cassandra to "Follow Cassandra". She should also spam a Taunt skill, like War Cry. Setting a tank character to follow self means they will pick their own targets and pretty much manage themselves. You can always redirect them to a new target in Tactical if you want.

Set your other party members to "Follow Cassandra".

With that arrangement, you can aim Cassandra at the biggest mob or strongest enemy, let your party take that enemy on, while you strike at targets of opportunity. If they defeat that initial target while you are busy doing something else, Cass will move on to a new target on her own and the others will follow her.

If any party member uses an active that you don't like, like Hook & Tackle or Grappling Chain, just disable it in the AI, but keep it on the 8 active slots if you want to use it manually while controlling in Tactical.

[AlanC9]

Mages, apart Vivienne that's crazy and likes to melee, usually stay out of trouble;

Isn't a Knight-Enchanter supposed to melee?

[arkngt]

Mages, apart Vivienne that's crazy and likes to melee, usually stay out of trouble...

 

That sounds like you're having her use Spirit Blade with AI, which I've found is a very bad idea, for the reason you stated. I turn it off so she's only using it "manually". The best tip I've gotten for her is to use Chilling Array, which basically means that she's more or less untouchable and takes care of her self w/o the need to babysit her at all.

[sjsharp2011]

Isn't a Knight-Enchanter supposed to melee?

 not neccessarily Knight Enchanter gives them that optoin but generally I'd still prefer to keep my mages at range but if they are required to get up close and personal then their Spirit Blade power gives them that option.

[Agi_]

I tend to agree. Of all the classes, DW Rogue does need the most management to get the most out of the build.

Another complication is setting party members to Follow Controlled (you), when you spend most of your time in stealth, confuses the AI.

So, here's what I recommend:

Set up one of your other party members to be a tank. Let's say Cassandra. Set Cassandra to "Follow Cassandra". She should also spam a Taunt skill, like War Cry. Setting a tank character to follow self means they will pick their own targets and pretty much manage themselves. You can always redirect them to a new target in Tactical if you want.

Set your other party members to "Follow Cassandra".

With that arrangement, you can aim Cassandra at the biggest mob or strongest enemy, let your party take that enemy on, while you strike at targets of opportunity. If they defeat that initial target while you are busy doing something else, Cass will move on to a new target on her own and the others will follow her.

If any party member uses an active that you don't like, like Hook & Tackle or Grappling Chain, just disable it in the AI, but keep it on the 8 active slots if you want to use it manually while controlling in Tactical.

 

Dint know that follow himself meant that; my first tought whan i saw it was a dog chasing his tail

Useful also for ranged to attack the pesky wrights and despair while the tank takes care of the big guy with them

 

Isn't a Knight-Enchanter supposed to melee?

 

Yes it is but only after casting barrier on himself and doing only melee to keep the barrier up. Dunno now but when the game was new KE was absolutely overpoweful

 

That sounds like you're having her use Spirit Blade with AI, which I've found is a very bad idea, for the reason you stated. I turn it off so she's only using it "manually". The best tip I've gotten for her is to use Chilling Array, which basically means that she's more or less untouchable and takes care of her self w/o the need to babysit her at all.

 

Was the first thing i did once i noticed this behaviour

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Follow self means they choose a target and keep attacking it until it's dead, no matter what you attack or what attacks you. Defend makes them stay closer to you and, attack whatever attacks you. Follow Controlled makes them attack whatever you attack.

 

As for keeping them out of AoE, Fires and at range, some do better than others at that but, none do very well under AI, just have to set the health and potions remaining limit to allow for it. Varric will use leaping shot and fall back a lot once he has them. Sera is bad for getting too close. Vivienne won't use KE, won't Melee even when she has the skills unless you disable all other attacks for her.

[Agi_]

As for keeping them out of AoE, Fires and at range, some do better than others at that but, none do very well under AI, just have to set the health and potions remaining limit to allow for it. Varric will use leaping shot and fall back a lot once he has them. Sera is bad for getting too close. Vivienne won't use KE, won't Melee even when she has the skills unless you disable all other attacks for her.

 

 

Varric is a leaping shot addict but too often he 1 launches mines/caltrops 2 leap shot 3 hook n tackle when doing 3 1 2 would have been a lot better

 

Sera wont stay where u tell her to, she's a rebel after all

Vivienne in my experience uses Spirit Blade often unless disabled, just forgets to cast barrier on herself before

 

Dorian and Solas usually stay where u want, but are unable to flee; even with fadeste preferred they like to fadestep toward the nearest corner

[Gya]

PawsPause has some videos of companion set-ups, you could check out their youtube channel if you like.

Personally, I just left them to their own devices and if they went down, they'd get teabagged mercilessly. It helped to mitigate my rage at their stupidity.

[sjsharp2011]

I havent played yet the descent, but if you are playing a melee rogue you cannot have the mages follow you if you go engage a melee AOE boss; i guess the DLC boss is something like the Avvar boss in the Mire, obviously under steroid, someone able to stun and heavily damage all around him thats not a tank with shield wall

One tanking, and eventually dodging away with combat roll when an hevy attack is coming and all others hitting from far away is ok with three ranged attackers

 

 

Same as above; if i fight with a melee rogue, that requires a lot of positioning the last thing i want is to have the mages near me i want them to stay at the extreme limit of their ranged attack and dont ever THINK to come close

 

 

 

well the Descent boss is a bit different in that if you try  to go up close and personal with it it will decimate your team, so your better off staying at range and just have 1 warrior ideally eithjer Blackwall  or Cassandra as they are your best  tanking options with plenty of guard go in to distract it while you have your rogues and mages let loose at distance. This is just what I mnormally do and it works well enough for me.

[akots1]

... Personally, I just left them to their own devices and if they went down, they'd get teabagged mercilessly. It helped to mitigate my rage at their stupidity.

During my first play through, I was so pissed at them, I sometimes just turned their stupid AI off and let them die. Did not even bother to teabag. In my second playthrough, I honestly tried although it did not work very well. They are too suicidal and babysitting the whole party is a chore. So, I did not finish it as it was a frustrating experience. My current, third play through is solo as DW elven female rogue and I sometimes have to take Solas and/or Blackwall to bash the walls or energize/light veilfire and solve puzzles. But their AI is firmly turned off and no skills have been assigned to make sure they don't do something silly. Hey, they even cannot stay in one place where you told them to stay.

[Agi_]

well the Descent boss is a bit different in that if you try  to go up close and personal with it it will decimate your team, so your better off staying at range and just have 1 warrior ideally eithjer Blackwall  or Cassandra as they are your best  tanking options with plenty of guard go in to distract it while you have your rogues and mages let loose at distance. This is just what I mnormally do and it works well enough for me.

 

It's the standard tactics with all boss fights even if in my present campaign i'm playing a 2H templar that is able to tank but not comparable with Blackwall that i can leave alone against a dragon, go get a coffee and come back to see him alive with full guard

A stomp from the last boss in the Deep Roads just removed a little bit of his guard while i dont remember how many times i had to res Solas and Sera

 

I'll see how is the big boss of the game, need to finish JoH before and i have the feeling that if i finish Descent too the poor Coripheus will be spanked like never before even if Coripheus fight isnt that hard even in NM, there are some other that i found much more of a problem

[Agi_]

During my first play through, I was so pissed at them, I sometimes just turned their stupid AI off and let them die. Did not even bother to teabag. In my second playthrough, I honestly tried although it did not work very well. They are too suicidal and babysitting the whole party is a chore. So, I did not finish it as it was a frustrating experience. My current, third play through is solo as DW elven female rogue and I sometimes have to take Solas and/or Blackwall to bash the walls or energize/light veilfire and solve puzzles. But their AI is firmly turned off and no skills have been assigned to make sure they don't do something silly. Hey, they even cannot stay in one place where you told them to stay.

 

Blackwall is well able to care for himself and usually doesnt do anything stupid; you tell him to go head on against the monster, spam war cry, shield bash and blow the horn and it's really unusual to see him having problems

[akots1]

Blackwall is well able to care for himself and usually doesnt do anything stupid; you tell him to go head on against the monster, spam war cry, shield bash and blow the horn and it's really unusual to see him having problems

No, not on Nightmare with all trials. He does not do anything stupid, he just dies after 3 hits without babysitting, guard or no guard. He can get through 5 more hits with all 8 healing pots and 8 hits with 12 healing pots. So, there is no point to even try to understand undisclosed inner workings of companion AI. To actually enjoy the game, I have to solo and it works rather well for me. There is still some frustration but much less, exactly one quarter of it compared to a full party game. Also, it is much faster as there is almost no pausing and micromanagement. DPS of DW assassin rogue is quite insane and enough to kill everything on its own without any so called "help" from the team.

[sjsharp2011]

It's the standard tactics with all boss fights even if in my present campaign i'm playing a 2H templar that is able to tank but not comparable with Blackwall that i can leave alone against a dragon, go get a coffee and come back to see him alive with full guard

A stomp from the last boss in the Deep Roads just removed a little bit of his guard while i dont remember how many times i had to res Solas and Sera

 

I'll see how is the big boss of the game, need to finish JoH before and i have the feeling that if i finish Descent too the poor Coripheus will be spanked like never before even if Coripheus fight isnt that hard even in NM, there are some other that i found much more of a problem

Well that boss alwys manages to murder my team whenever i rty to go up close so I tend to use ranged tactics on it with just the 1 warrior  as that tactic works best for me.

[Agi_]

No, not on Nightmare with all trials. He does not do anything stupid, he just dies after 3 hits without babysitting, guard or no guard. He can get through 5 more hits with all 8 healing pots and 8 hits with 12 healing pots. So, there is no point to even try to understand undisclosed inner workings of companion AI. To actually enjoy the game, I have to solo and it works rather well for me. There is still some frustration but much less, exactly one quarter of it compared to a full party game. Also, it is much faster as there is almost no pausing and micromanagement. DPS of DW assassin rogue is quite insane and enough to kill everything on its own without any so called "help" from the team.

 

Never tried NM with all trials, just standard NM where he requires just a little babysitting and Hard where he can probably solo the dragon of the Emprise

 

Playing solo should be interesting but i can foresee a lot of kiting, hiding and an overabuse of grenades, something i'm not sure i will like. Maybe, i'm not sure, i have the skill to do it but probably i dont have the patience to spend an evening to do a rift

 

Well that boss alwys manages to murder my team whenever i rty to go up close so I tend to use ranged tactics on it with just the 1 warrior  as that tactic works best for me.

 

Now that i think i did Descent, it's the Deep Roads and you probaly mean the blue thing that come out of the heart.

 

Yes i cannot but agree it was a tough fight in hard but there is not a lot of space around to keep ranged away, there are those stomps coming from the sky that can hit almost everywhere while close there are the tentacles that hit rather hard

[DarkAmaranth1966]

There are a few, especially THAT boss which I prefer to solo, might as well, it's going to take out the rest of my team anyway unless I want to take 3 hours to fight it because I have to pause and micro mange everyone every single shot. Amazing what a KE/Inferno mage can do when he's really good at kiting and, dashing in then getting out to recharge the blade.

 

I suppose I could turn off a few trials on that one but, hey, no fair if I can't do it all trials on in nightmare.

 

It's a heck of a fight, but, I've beaten that one three times solo (and twice with a team but both times they all died before the boss was even down 50% so not worth having on that one.