671 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince Enigmatic]

Bioware should just make every character an amoeba.

Problem solved.

 

I'm sure someone would find some way of complaining/criticizing/lambasting it. 

[frylock23]

Bioware should just make every character an amoeba.

Problem solved.

 

Only if we get to slowly evolve and design what our eventual creations look like when it happens. Of course, if BioWare made that game, we wouldn't have to leave the Milky Way and fail would be the default canon.

[Sifr]

Read my above post.

 

They are already that? So a transgender girl is basically a girl who wants the body of a man? If they were given the wrong body and has the body to change it but don't then that's not really transgender if you're already comfortable with your own body. 

 

No, they are a man who was born in the body of a woman, what's hard to get about that? Whether they transition via gender-reassignment to become male, or don't, does not diminish that they were always male.

 

Even though the magic or technology does not (apparently) exist in Dragon Age for reassignment to be an option, forcing Krem to instead rely on passing via binding and "a good sock" as he jokes, that does not make him not still a man. Nor does Krem refusing to use such magic to change if it did exist, stop him from still being transgender.

[Battlebloodmage]

No, they are a man who was born in the body of a woman, what's hard to get about that? Whether they transition via gender-reassignment to become male, or don't, does not diminish that they were always male.

 

Even though the magic or technology does not (apparently) exist in Dragon Age for reassignment to be an option, forcing Krem to instead rely on passing via binding and "a good sock" as he jokes, that does not make him not still a man. Nor does Krem refusing to use such magic to change if it did exist, stop him from still being transgender.

Yes they are a man who was born in the woman's body, but they don't want to change their body. Why? Because they're comfortable with their body? That's like a man who feel like a woman that want to be a man. I remember Krem said something about the danger, and blood magic is a forbidden magic, like making a deal with a demon, it could be the risk associated with it, but Mass Effect is about space science magic, so there shouldn't be any complication, you can't say Krem wouldn't change if there's no risks or taboo involved. 

[straykat]

It's kind of interesting.. Same with the "otherkin" (if they're being serious). It's totally different to me. I'm grounded in my body and my senses. I have a hard time seeing reality another way. I don't transcend it. This doesn't just mean gender. It's the same reason I don't think, say.. a chair is an airplane. They are distinct things, in 3 dimensional space.

[DreamerM]

After what happened to poor Beamdog, and oh my god I feel so bad for Amber Scott.... I want there to be transgender characters in EVERY video game. Just to ****** off the assholes who just had to make some tiny NPC into a "thing" because ohmygod trannies.

....I'm so angry...

[Gothfather]

This is actually not true. I don't know how this idea got started, but it has been pretty thoroughly debunked. The very first stage of a fetus in development is more or less an amorphous glob of cells with no defining characteristics. Then the rough humanoid outline is formed after some development and tissue that will later become genitalia will begin to form inside the abdomen. The fetus is neither male nor female at this stage in development. If the fetus is male, then the tissue comes together and forms the basis of the penis, with 2 small organs forming in the abdominal area that will become the testes, later descending from the abdomen to the scrotum toward the end of pregnancy (though it is not uncommon for the testes of newly-born boys to remain in the abdomen until after birth). If the fetus is female, then the tissue separates and becomes the labia and vagina, with the 2 small organs forming in the abdominal area and become ovaries, and stay there. At this point during development, a male fetus will have already began forming sperm cells in the testes and female fetuses will already have their entire lifetime's supply of eggs. During this time the chromosomes in the DNA strands of the fetus are still synthesizing and coming together, with the sex of the fetus determined roughly 22 weeks after conception, on average.

 

Human fetuses are not gendered right at the start of gestation, they start as an agender base which is then extrapolated into male or female depending on the levels of estrogen and testosterone that the fetus is exposed to in-utero. Fetuses do not "begin female". And it should go without saying but this is disregarding things like birth defects, I'm assuming normal human fetal development.

 

edit: I began another sentence and then totally forgot to finish it.

 

The anatomical sex (phenotype) is female at the start of all fetuses. Which is why you can get rare cases where the genotype is male but you are born with phenotype female genitalia which is cause when male hormones are not produced. 

 

Granted the sex organs are not fully developed but anatomically we all start out the same and if we DON'T get an introduction of male hormones we WILL develop anatomical female sex organs, they are not functional but it is clear that the base building block of human life IS to create phenotype female genitalia because even genotype aka chromosomal males will develop them IF their chromosomes fail to activate male hormone production. It is part of our genetic code period.

 

I suspect you KNOW this but the truth of the differences in phenotype and genotype doesn't fit your narrative so you just ignored it.

[straykat]

After what happened to poor Beamdog, and oh my god I feel so bad for Amber Scott.... I want there to be transgender characters in EVERY video game. Just to ****** off the assholes who just had to make some tiny NPC into a "thing" because ohmygod trannies.

....I'm so angry...

 

I ordered it, but have yet to play to see what the big deal is.

 

Kind of a weird thing to do though, to want to include things out of spite. Every game? Really?

[Battlebloodmage]

Meh, include women and a Black guy caused a huge backlash, include gay character in a game and it would increase the rating to M, include a trans character caused a huge backlash for Baldur's Gate. Some people just feel like their toys are being taken away or that they have to share. People will complain no matter what. Still, adding a character because of revenge sounds like one of the worst ways to implement a character. 

[vbibbi]

After what happened to poor Beamdog, and oh my god I feel so bad for Amber Scott.... I want there to be transgender characters in EVERY video game. Just to ****** off the assholes who just had to make some tiny NPC into a "thing" because ohmygod trannies.

....I'm so angry...

 

Right, that will help.

[Steelcan]

Meh, include women and a Black guy caused a huge backlash, include gay character in a game and it would increase the rating to M, include a trans character caused a huge backlash for Baldur's Gate. Some people just feel like their toys are being taken away or that they have to share. People will complain no matter what. Still, adding a character because of revenge sounds like one of the worst ways to implement a character. 

but Mass Effect was always M..... always had black guys and so on

[Sifr]

Yes they are a man who was born in the woman's body, but they don't want to change their body. Why? Because they're comfortable with their body?

 

Why would you assume that people who don't transition are "comfortable" in their body and shouldn't be labelled trans anymore? They're still transgender, but for whatever reason, have chosen not to undergo reassignment surgery.

 

[DreamerM]

... Every game? Really?

 

....No, not really. It's just my anger talking. The people who can't let a character, any character, be trans because ugh, icky, I don't get it.... I just feel like those people keep getting what they want because everyone knows that even a passing reference to the existence of transgender people is going to be a "thing" no matter how minor the character is. Beamdog said they "didn't think it was a big deal," and you know what, it shouldn't have been. It really shouldn't have been...

[Draining Dragon]

The mere inclusion of the transgender character in Dragonspear didn't really prompt much of a backlash, from what I saw. It was the perception of poor writing surrounding that character, a variety of other issues with the game (i.e. bugs), and Beamdog's unfortunate decision to lump legitimate critics in with the tiny minority of bigots that caused the real backlash. It seems to have died down since they issued that formal statement about it, though.

[straykat]

Why would you assume that people who don't transition are "comfortable" in their body and shouldn't be labelled trans anymore? They're still transgender, but for whatever reason, have chosen not to undergo reassignment surgery.

 

 

So they're just cool with the idea/identity? The body has nothing to do with gender?

 

Sorry... I'm just confused, like I've been saying. edit: It's probably not even relevant to games anyways..

[Gothfather]

We're currently overcoming a lot of discrimination at a rate much higher than the rest of history. Not that it's been eliminated, but we're getting there. 150 more years? I could see transgender people not being an issue. But all of that is moot since it's already been established that the rest of the LGBT community's problems are gone in ME. So again, why is it okay for them but not for trans people?

 

The asari aren't the best example, since they live more than 10 times as long as current humans and therefore appear to be rather stagnant when it comes to social issues, when really they could be evolving within the same number of generations as humans. But it's also moot, since they're not humans. Just because a fictional species has its troubles doesn't mean humans have to. Or krogan. Etc.

 

You're right, that wasn't what I was trying to say, which is why I put "stealth" in quotes. I wasn't implying that ME's trans people would be hiding, or ashamed, but rather: Why would they bring up that they're transgender, any more than any given cis person goes around saying they're cis? When your gender aligns with your body physically, biologically, even genetically, why bring it up, other than referring to your past if it's relevant?

 

It's not that they can't bring it up. It's not that they shouldn't. It's that they don't need to.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is normalization makes commenting on the issue directly odd. It would be like someone in 1850 era rpg  just out of the blue saying, "I am X gender and have always been x gender."  (They wouldn't use cis because the term wasn't invented.) This would seem stupid and out of place because being cis gender is "normal" so why would you draw attention to it? If LGBT is pretty much normalized in ME human society why would human Transpeople just out of the blue go "I am X gender but I wasn't always X gender?" It would feel out of place and this uncomfortable feeling would have nothing to do with transphobia.

[DreamerM]

The mere inclusion of the transgender character in Dragonspear didn't really prompt much of a backlash, from what I saw. It was the perception of poor writing surrounding that character, a variety of other issues with the game (i.e. bugs), and Beamdog's unfortunate decision to lump legitimate critics in with the tiny minority of bigots that caused the real backlash. It seems to have died down since they issued that formal statement about it, though.

 

Then you'd think the answer would have been to make that character's part bigger, make them unkillable, and display more finesse about the response to the criticism. But when you are up against the onslaught of Gamergate-style writer harassment as well as video after video of gamers mauling the character after she reveals she's trans... ugh... Yeah. I'm going to look at kitten pictures until my soul grows back.

[Battlebloodmage]

but Mass Effect was always M..... always had black guys and so on

I'm using different examples from different series. 

[DreamerM]

So they're just cool with the idea/identity? The body has nothing to do with gender?

 

Sorry... I'm just confused.

Here's the good news: you can be confused. It's alright. You don't have to understand. Don't worry. These things are complicated. All people are asking for is that you allow them to make the deeply personal decisions that we all make, one way or another, about our own bodies and our own sense of self....rather then insisting on making it for them. You don't get to correct someone who's experience with gender and identity may be very different then yours. Please don't make your confusion their problem.

[straykat]

Here's the good news: you can be confused. It's alright. You don't have to understand. Don't worry. These things are complicated. All people are asking for is that you allow them to make the deeply personal decisions that we all make, one way or another, about our own bodies and our own sense of self....rather then insisting on making it for them. You don't get to correct someone who's experience with gender and identity may be very different then yours. Please don't make your confusion their problem.

 

I'm just asking questions, dude.

 

It's so different from me... Your name is "Dreamer", for example. I'm no Dreamer at all. I'm sensory...for lack of a better word. It's the root of my difference... I think.

 

But this has nothing to do with me wanting to control anything. I don't care.

[Battlebloodmage]

Why would you assume that people who don't transition are "comfortable" in their body and shouldn't be labelled trans anymore? They're still transgender, but for whatever reason, have chosen not to undergo reassignment surgery.

 

They can label whatever they want, there is no reason not to go through with the procedure in a science fiction universe where such a transition is possible and carry no risk. There is no reason not to, so I'm not sure why I suppose to care for people who don't want to go through with it but then complain about their situation, and if they're happy with it then there is no need to talk about it. 

[DreamerM]

 if they're happy with it then there is no need to talk about it. 

 

...Maybe they'd talk about it for the same reasons you'd discuss any other significant life event? As a way of talking about what they learned about themselves, or who they are as people, and what they have been through? ...

[DreamerM]

I'm just asking questions, dude.

 I apologize. That was more confrontational then I intended it to be. The spot is a little sore for me. Forgive me if this topic is verbotten and I didn't know.

[vbibbi]

Here's the good news: you can be confused. It's alright. You don't have to understand. Don't worry. These things are complicated. All people are asking for is that you allow them to make the deeply personal decisions that we all make, one way or another, about our own bodies and our own sense of self....rather then insisting on making it for them. You don't get to correct someone who's experience with gender and identity may be very different then yours. Please don't make your confusion their problem.

 

I doubt a patronizing and condescending tone helps continue a dialogue. Nor responding as if any person asking questions is imposing their viewpoint over someone else.

[straykat]

 I apologize. That was more confrontational then I intended it to be. The spot is a little sore for me. Forgive me if this topic is verbotten and I didn't know.

 

No prob..

 

Needless to say, I think game creators (or creators of any kind) should do what they want and let the chips fall where they may. In typical capitalist fashion, I'll say "let the market decide". I don't like the idea of fans coercing things. Be it gamergate, or the opposite end.