671 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

what is even going on in here

 

Eh, some shite. What is ever going on in the BSN.

[DreamerM]

Sure, it would say a lot about me... or most straight guys. We generally don't want to have sex with men.

 

She's NOT A MAN! I don't know how to say it. She's Miranda. She's the same Miranda you have been romancing this whole time. She's. A. Woman. So she had surgery. So what? She's still the same person you fell for, the same person she's always been. She's a woman, she's MIRANDA, she's choosing to be with you, and you're...you're....

...Did you know that trans women face the highest levels of domestic abuse in the world? That transgender people are being murdered at historic rates, often by loved ones, because of WHAT, rather then who, they are? They don't even commit crimes. People will attack them just for having the gall to exist. 

Would you kill Miranda, if after two games of romancing, she finally trusted you enough to tell you? Because she finally dares to think you would still love her even if you knew? Would she be right? Would you say, "You are Miranda, I love YOU no matter what," or .... Would she be wrong?  Or would you feel betrayed? Angry? Would you kill her to prove a point to yourself about how straight and masculine you are? What if she wanted to finally tell your companions? What if she told everybody? Could you still stand by her? Or....would you reject her.

.....all of that i on YOU. Not her. She did nothing wrong. YOU are the one making that choice, at that point. Any lies she told, she told to possibly save her own life, considering the violence trans women face. And if the writers felt the need to include a storyline like this, it's not because they are "forcing" or "shoehorning" or "pandering," it's because they really want you to think about how you feel. They want you to examine this issue not in the abstract, but in the context of a trusted friend, or someone who loves you, and YOU have to decide what to do.

Think carefully. Don't have any regrets.

.... so sayeth the basset hound.

[Seraphim24]

what is even going on in here

 

Someone pretending like they don't know

 

=-)

[aoibhealfae]

XXY females are not trans, they're females with trisomy, which is a rare confition that leads to several birth defects (most notably Down Syndrome). They're not trans, they're ill and in need of medical care. Klinefelter syndrome is the same thing, but in males. The details of Miranda's birth are questionable at best, and that's only because it's left vague enough that people can headcanon enough real science to kinda/sorta make it work within the confines of real genetics with a touch of suspension of disbelief.

 

Probably the proper term would be hermaphrodite or intersex. Its a chromosomal condition that happen during fertilization but they're not ill. A lot of them usually present mild signs and symptoms that many goes undiagnosed. Anyone with XXY can choose to receive hormonal and surgical treatment to transition themselves as either gender or choose to stay non-binary and only take hormonal supplements for health reasons. There are several with XXY syndrome that do identify themselves as trans, like Caroline Cossey for instance. 

There were a lot in-game dialogue lines that was very scientific about her mosaic genetic condition. But its really up to each on interpretation whether you choose to skim the lines or not. 
 

 

Do you realize that no transgender people are transgender by choice? Just like gay people aren't gay by choice? And don't confuse transgender with intersex. They can sometimes overlap, but are not the same thing.

 

And I don't think anyone was saying Miranda was transgender.

 

I don't mean it as an offense. Then again not any one of us have any choice to be who we are either; gender, sexual orientation, color of our skin, place and religion we're born with and the screwed society we're living in, but no matter who we are, there's always choices that we make for ourselves.

I'm only referring  to the various earlier posters, straight gamers or gay gamers apparently, who repetitively offended that they might felt cheated to be in a relationship with a character who turns out differently and felt like they're duped like their preferred choice was taken and being forced onto them. Miranda is merely an example considering she is a female LI who is not, in truest sense, a biological female since she is consisted mostly of her father's gene. But it really is up to anyone to interpret that about her.

[Battlebloodmage]

People should really be upfront about whether they're transgender. I have already said that transgender women get killed after their identity comes to light. If they didn't accept you for who you are before, they wouldn't accept you even after you get to know them. There is no need to hide it. You shouldn't take risks by hiding it because if you sleep with the wrong guy, they will become violent and may even kill you for making them sleep with a "man". Quotation mark as in the people who may kill you would think that way. It's actually safer to tell the guys right away and see how they react. You may not consider it to be important but others may.

 

I couldn't be with a transgender person, but that's just my preference, there are others who do, and that's good for them. I've seen several guys who are exclusively into transwomen. There's someone for everyone I guess. Still, it's a bit ridiculous people get demonized for not liking a relationship with a transgender person. It's like some people just have a preference for Asian women or things like that 

[Hazegurl]

She's NOT A MAN! I don't know how to say it. She's Miranda. She's the same Miranda you have been romancing this whole time. She's. A. Woman. So she had surgery. So what? She's still the same person you fell for, the same person she's always been. She's a woman, she's MIRANDA, she's choosing to be with you, and you're...you're....

...Did you know that trans women face the highest levels of domestic abuse in the world? That transgender people are being murdered at historic rates, often by loved ones, because of WHAT, rather then who, they are? They don't even commit crimes. People will attack them just for having the gall to exist. 

(snip)
 

People get dumped for a variety of reasons.  That's life. You can gain/lose weight, become a vegan/meat eater, religious/atheist, et al.  If a person is not interested in dating you after they discover something about you or you've changed in their eyes then it is 100% within their rights to leave you.  Transgendered people getting murdered and having a rough life should have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not a relationship should continue.  If anything such a relationship is out of pity and only a person with serious low self esteem would want that.  Assuming that someone would resort to murder just for saying "I don't want to date X type of person" is just going too far.

 

As a female player who played a male Shepard and romanced Miranda, if BW revealed the character was trans, I would call shenanigans big time and yeah it would change how I headcanoned my Shep whether I play the game and romance her again or not.  My Shep always leaves Miranda for Kaidan anyway, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me, She'll still get dumped anyway. 

[JPVNG]

Stop this nonsense pls....whats the percentage of transgenders on the society? how many of us in our personal life's know personally a transgender? 1%? 2%? 5%?

0,5%? I am not criticising them in whatever way..i have nothing against individuals tastes, manners, religions, sex, color etc...each one is as it is.

But now a days i am tired of this....it seems like imposing this to all others. Even gay relationships are not that often in our lifes that should always be like a rule or mandatory...people are still in majority heterosexual, for god sake.

So why in every game, every movie, every tv series now a days i have to see gay couples, transgenders, and alikes? its mandatory now? its that so often that has to be?

I m from a very liberal country in what regards this aspects, but i do not like how´s things presently are. It seems forced, not natural. Or its like a fashion thing? because maybe its cool,??Moral has to be earned not imposed.

[Battlebloodmage]

Stop this nonsense pls....whats the percentage of transgenders on the society? how many of us in our personal life's know personally a transgender? 1%? 2%? 5%?

0,5%? I am not criticising them in whatever way..i have nothing against individuals tastes, manners, religions, sex, color etc...each one is as it is.

But now a days i am tired of this....it seems like imposing this to all others. Even gay relationships are not that often in our lifes that should always be like a rule or mandatory...people are still in majority heterosexual, for god sake.

So why in every game, every movie, every tv series now a days i have to see gay couples, transgenders, and alikes? its mandatory now? its that so often that has to be?

I m from a very liberal country in what regards this aspects, but i do not like how´s things presently are. It seems forced, not natural. Or its like a fashion thing? because maybe its cool,??Moral has to be earned not imposed.

How many LGBT characters vs straight characters? Straight characters are still in the majority, it's not like they make every single character gay. Shows that have a lot of gay characters may usually target toward females and gay guys, but most shows either don't have a gay character or have them in really low number and usually only play minor roles. They probably just stand out because they're gay, so you'd notice them more. Most TV shows that I watch don't have any gay character or at least any gay characters in the beginning, some may be introduce later in the series. 

[SnakeCode]

Are people really trying to imply it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person? Has this thread gone full Tumblr?

[JPVNG]

@batllebloodmage

 

Well i know a lot that have...some main characters, some not.  I guess the reason its maybe to educate people, to make them "learn" to respect people differences and see it as normal. I respect that, even agree with that. But it seems that its starting to appear some exaggeration on this now a days. Honestly its my opinion.

[KaiserShep]

Stop this nonsense pls....whats the percentage of transgenders on the society? how many of us in our personal life's know personally a transgender? 1%? 2%? 5%?

0,5%? I am not criticising them in whatever way..i have nothing against individuals tastes, manners, religions, sex, color etc...each one is as it is.

But now a days i am tired of this....it seems like imposing this to all others. Even gay relationships are not that often in our lifes that should always be like a rule or mandatory...people are still in majority heterosexual, for god sake.

So why in every game, every movie, every tv series now a days i have to see gay couples, transgenders, and alikes? its mandatory now? its that so often that has to be?

I m from a very liberal country in what regards this aspects, but i do not like how´s things presently are. It seems forced, not natural. Or its like a fashion thing? because maybe its cool,??Moral has to be earned not imposed.

 

 

So is the solution to simply not have them in some of their games at all? I'm sure that would go well. 

[Panda]

Stop this nonsense pls....whats the percentage of transgenders on the society? how many of us in our personal life's know personally a transgender? 1%? 2%? 5%?

0,5%? I am not criticising them in whatever way..i have nothing against individuals tastes, manners, religions, sex, color etc...each one is as it is.

But now a days i am tired of this....it seems like imposing this to all others. Even gay relationships are not that often in our lifes that should always be like a rule or mandatory...people are still in majority heterosexual, for god sake.

So why in every game, every movie, every tv series now a days i have to see gay couples, transgenders, and alikes? its mandatory now? its that so often that has to be?

I m from a very liberal country in what regards this aspects, but i do not like how´s things presently are. It seems forced, not natural. Or its like a fashion thing? because maybe its cool,??Moral has to be earned not imposed.

 

I doubt that amount of transgender or LGBT+ characters even meets real life demographics if we think of all games. I don't even know if any game has more transgender characters than real life demographic is cause I pretty much know myself only two transgender characters in all video games: Krem from DAI and Erica from Catherine. And if there is million video game characters around and only 10 or so is trans, well that doesn't meet demographic does it?

[SlottsMachine]

Eh, it wouldn't be high up on my list.

[JPVNG]

So is the solution to simply not have them in some of their games at all? I'm sure that would go well. 

I surely did not said that. i did not suggest that. The solution is to treat romance in games as it is.

Life is simple. 

[KaiserShep]

I surely did not said that. i did not suggest that. The solution is to treat romance in games as it is.

 

 

But…what is it though?

 

 

 

Life is simple. 

 

Pfff, I wish. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So what's all this about Miranda being trans? 

[KaiserShep]

So what's all this about Miranda being trans? 

 

 

Henry Lawson's a hell of a drug. 

[Prince Enigmatic]

I've been thinking that, instead of a human trans character, how about an alien one? We aren't really sure of how turian, asari, salarian or others socially would treat this, and there's always the possibility of a new alien species we encounter in Andromeda featuring a trans character.

Just seems a lot of people are finding it difficult to see how a human trans character could be written well, without it either becoming an issue of tokenism or whatever. It can be explored in another way or through the eyes of another species perhaps.

[Derrame]

why is this relevant for exploring a new galaxy?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I've been thinking that, instead of a human trans character, how about an alien one? We aren't really sure of how turian, asari, salarian or others socially would treat this, and there's always the possibility of a new alien species we encounter in Andromeda featuring a trans character.

Just seems a lot of people are finding it difficult to see how a human trans character could be written well, without it either becoming an issue of tokenism or whatever. It can be explored in another way or through the eyes of another species perhaps.

That could work. Maybe one of the new species for whatever reason frown on altering their bodies. Or maybe one of them is a pre-spaceflight species whom we uplift, so they weren't at the technological level for a seamless transition yet. 

[wright1978]

To be honest given who Miranda's father was and how he tried to create the perfect heir, I think they should retcon that Miranda was born Mark Lawson. And it was never an issue so never brought up in game.
 

The one thing I think they should avoid is retconning past characters. Also think it would make zero sense in regards her story.

[Sifr]

They can label whatever they want, there is no reason not to go through with the procedure in a science fiction universe where such a transition is possible and carry no risk. There is no reason not to, so I'm not sure why I suppose to care for people who don't want to go through with it but then complain about their situation, and if they're happy with it then there is no need to talk about it. 

 

Because as I previously pointed out, not everyone is able to afford or get such medical procedures, whether it be on the crime-filled slums on Earth that Earth!Shep was born in, the streets of Omega or some colony world without a medical unit to carry them out... heck, Traynor's colony-world weren't able to carry out corrective gene therapy to eliminate Asthma (something that appears to relatively simple to do in this universe), so do you honestly expect them to have the facilities to conduct gender reassignment either?

 

Unless you want to risk it by going to a back alley doctor, there's plenty of reasons why someone might simply not be able to get the procedure done, even if they still wanted it. That does not deny them from still being trans, nor diminish how their experience or how they live.

 

It seems far more than society is the ones doing the complaining more often than not. Most of the time trans rights are discussed, it's not them "complaining" about their situation, but about how their rights are being trampled on... as anyone else in their position would do?

 

If you were to tell someone of your gender that they weren't able to enter the same bathroom as you, for something as minor as the colour of their skin or their religion, how is that any different from banning a trans individual the same right to enter because of their gender identity, even if they've transitioned? If you're going to force a group of people for petty reasons to be segregated into separate bathrooms, should they not have separate drinking fountains, schools or baseball teams too? That would be society taking a huge leap and bound backwards, not forwards.

 

Trans people don't run around with a picket fence declaring their status to everyone and handing out leaflets, as if they're promoting Kanye's next album. The only reason trans individuals may seek to educate others in that way, is because the levels of prejudice, intolerance and misunderstanding, have gotten to the point that where they simply cannot remain silent any longer and must promote and champion acceptance.

 

TL;DR... Transgendered individuals (or any group) do not "complain" because they've got a problem with how they live their lives. They speak out because it often seems to be the case that everyone else is complaining and has a problem with them, as well as how they live their lives.

[Battlebloodmage]

Because as I previously pointed out, not everyone is able to afford or get such medical procedures, whether it be on the crime-filled slums on Earth that Earth!Shep was born in, the streets of Omega or some colony world without a medical unit to carry them out... heck, Traynor's colony-world weren't able to carry out corrective gene therapy to eliminate Asthma (something that appears to relatively simple to do in this universe), so do you honestly expect them to have the facilities to conduct gender reassignment either?

 

Unless you want to risk it by going to a back alley doctor, there's plenty of reasons why someone might simply not be able to get the procedure done, even if they still wanted it. That does not deny them from still being trans, nor diminish how their experience or how they live.

 

It seems far more than society is the ones doing the complaining more often than not. Most of the time trans rights are discussed, it's not them "complaining" about their situation, but about how their rights are being trampled on... as anyone else in their position would do?

 

If you were to tell someone of your gender that they weren't able to enter the same bathroom as you, for something as minor as the colour of their skin or their religion, how is that any different from banning a trans individual the same right to enter because of their gender identity, even if they've transitioned? If you're going to force a group of people for petty reasons to be segregated into separate bathrooms, should they not have separate drinking fountains, schools or baseball teams too? That would be society taking a huge leap and bound backwards, not forwards.

 

Trans people don't run around with a picket fence declaring their status to everyone and handing out leaflets, as if they're promoting Kanye's next album. The only reason trans individuals may seek to educate others in that way, is because the levels of prejudice, intolerance and misunderstanding, have gotten to the point that where they simply cannot remain silent any longer and must promote and champion acceptance.

 

TL;DR... Transgendered individuals (or any group) do not "complain" because they've got a problem with how they live their lives. They speak out because it often seems to be the case that everyone else is complaining and has a problem with them, as well as how they live their lives.

So in a fictional world, there can't be universal healthcare for these kinds of things? It's a fictional world, so not sure why you want to imagine a world to be that terrible to transgender people. 

 

You think forcing it will make people listen? Look at the backlash at Baldur's Gate for just mentioning a transgender character. You want them to preach to people, but who are you preaching to. The transphobic crowd that would just gonna get pissed? The transgender people that you introduce a transphobic environment into the game? The SJW who's already understanding it? What's the point? You speak out is one thing, making it a social issue in a game is another matter. That's called an agenda. You want to make transgender as characters instead of characters who happen to be transgender. You intentionally want transgender characters for a PSA not to treat  transgender characters that are happened to be transgender if your purpose is to "teach" people.

[Natureguy85]

It's weird to see people shaming others for not wanting to date transgender individuals. It's their preference. As long as people treat others with respect and see them as the gender they prefer, that should be enough. It shouldn't go as far as shaming people for not wanting to go out with a transgender individual. 

 

That is the nature of this and similar movements. Tolerance and acceptance are no longer enough. Now you must love and celebrate whatever their issue is. That you disagree is exactly why I always separate individuals from movements and groups.

[MissOuJ]

You think forcing it will make people listen? Look at the backlash at Baldur's Gate for just mentioning a transgender character. You want them to preach to people, but who are you preaching to. The transphobic crowd that would just gonna get pissed? The transgender people that you introduce a transphobic environment into the game? The SJW who's already understanding it? What's the point? You speak out is one thing, making it a social issue in a game is another matter. That's called an agenda. You want to make transgender as characters instead of characters who happen to be transgender. 

 

How about we include trans characters because trans people exits in the real world and trans people who play these games would probably like seeing themselves represented? I've seen plenty of trans people who've expressed their thanks for including characters like Krem and Maevaris in DA universe. That's important to them (and IMO, to the development of our culture in general), and it's not like it takes away from cis people's representation. I lose absolutely nothing because Maevaris is an absolutely amazing female trans character (please, please BW - I wanna see her in DA4!), I feel the absolute opposite.

 

That some people decide to find out stuff to be offended by (I mean these people call out "SJWs" for having thin skin and then proceed to completely lose their marbles when a LGBT character is even just mentioned or discussed on a hypothetical level... which is just a textbook definition of irony) and decide to react to it by being absolutely horrible human beings (towards a game developer who is a woman - what a surprise...) is not a good enough reason to not do something like this, IMO.