Well I'm gonna get jumped on for this but no, I wouldn't.
No matter how it's done it'll look like they're pandering to the current mood, SJWs, social media or whatever. Even if it's a beautifully written story and a great character, many ppl, and perhaps the media, will start rolling their eyes no matter how it's handled.
Although I'm not convinced that BW can handle trans characters. Krem was fine and all but the conversation was a bit heavy-handed and the little lecture IB gave about aqun-athloks made no sense. A culture that is all about gender roles and following orders is somehow 100% ok with transgendered people? That's the kind of stuff I don't want to see in ME:A.
They retconned the absolute **** out of the Qunari in DAI. They clearly decided sometime between DA2 and DAI that "Islamic Communists" was no longer the thing, and changed it to "I guess, like, uhhhh... I don't know! Shut up!" They're so inconsistent, so nonsensical, and so much less interesting than the Arishok was.
The DA team really can't commit to a single ****ing thing.
Sure why not. As long as they're well written that's all that matters to me. Even if the character is included for the sake of diversity, just make them well written.
Although I'm not convinced that BW can handle trans characters. Krem was fine and all but the conversation was a bit heavy-handed and the little lecture IB gave about aqun-athloks made no sense. A culture that is all about gender roles and following orders is somehow 100% ok with transgendered people? That's the kind of stuff I don't want to see in ME:A.
Bioware has different teams, DA team and ME team are different, DA has gay relationship from the very beginning while ME needs a lot of fans complaining and executive meddling to even include it in the game. I don't think DA can write gay, bi, or trans characters properly, they make the character sexuality to be their defining trait instead of just being characters. ME has the right approach when treating characters as characters and sexuality would have been the same if they have been gay, straight, bi, or whatever.
Why care what they think, though? Haters gonna hate, right?
Clearly caving in to the SJW minority is the thing to do these days. Just look at Tracer's ass.
They retconned the absolute **** out of the Qunari in DAI. They clearly decided sometime between DA2 and DAI that "Islamic Communists" was no longer the thing, and changed it to "I guess, like, uhhhh... I don't know! Shut up!" They're so inconsistent, so nonsensical, and so much less interesting than the Arishok was.
The DA team really can't commit to a single ****ing thing.
It seems like they care too much about not offending people more than anything. A demon who impersonates Lelianna who seduces the Inquisitor could be perceived as rape, the Qun who is intolerant and don't understand why women would want to be men now suddenly become accepting of others. Solas was not made bisexual because he may be a depraved bisexual. They're trying too hard to not offend people that it loses the gritty edge we had in DAO.
Or to answer this with the more important and appropriate question... "Why should transgender people not be included in MEA?"
You expect me to believe in faster-than-light travel, element zero and alien beings... but trans individuals should not show up?
I enjoy fantasy fiction as much as the next guy, but expecting me to believe that trans people don't exist in Mass Effect is a level of fantasy, fiction and a sheer disconnect from reality that even I can't get behind. As someone who likes Trek, but loathes how they've refused to let anyone out of the closet for over a half-century, omitting LGBT character from appearing or being mentioned in any modern fictional work seriously bothers me.
If there's still people thinking that putting a trans person would be too controversial, maybe a hermaphroditic alien race who generally think gender binary and the all-female Asari as abominations, its a scifi anyway. But I don't see the problem of having both trans human male and female in the game either as romance or supporting characters.
Nobody point at Kasumi, Emily Wong, Khalisah and Samesh Bhatia and claim that they're being forced fed with POC/ethnic diversity and wished for a generic white NPCs instead. Some years ago, stuff like this might have raised some hell.
But that was exactly the point -- there's no reality check on the Qun. If some fact is inconvenient for the Qun, then reality is reinterpreted to conform to the Qun. We see this in several other areas going back to DA2, where the Arishok has lost zero qunari. (One of the regulars here -- In Exile, I think -- said that the Qun was basically made of the No True Scotsman fallacy; Gaider approved.)Although I'm not convinced that BW can handle trans characters. Krem was fine and all but the conversation was a bit heavy-handed and the little lecture IB gave about aqun-athloks made no sense. A culture that is all about gender roles and following orders is somehow 100% ok with transgendered people?
But that was exactly the point -- there's no reality check on the Qun. If some fact is inconvenient for the Qun, then reality is reinterpreted to conform to the Qun. We see this in several other areas. (One of the regulars here -- In Exile, I think -- said that the Qun was basically made of the No True Scotsman fallacy; Gaider approved.)
We thought Sten was saying that the Warden shouldn't fight because she was female, but he was actually saying that the Warden should stop being female. Which would be a far more efficient outcome than the former.
That's revisionism. That was clearly not the original intention of that exchange.
Bioware has different teams, DA team and ME team are different, DA has gay relationship from the very beginning while ME needs a lot of fans complaining and executive meddling to even include it in the game. I don't think DA can write gay, bi, or trans characters properly, they make the character sexuality to be their defining trait instead of just being characters. ME has the right approach when treating characters as characters and sexuality would have been the same if they have been gay, straight, bi, or whatever.
I genuinely found it surprising that DA:I got a lot of flak for its handling of sexually diverse characters. After playing the game I thought that Krem was the only one that felt forced.
Kaiden and Cortez were handled in a "btw I like men" way. There's no real discussion about their sexuality after you find out that they like men. Sera and Josephine are handled in the exact same way. Another thing to note is that none of them fall into stereotypes of their sexuality.
To me Iron Bull's sexuality just reminded me of Zevran but with BDSM thrown in. He just bangs everything. Sure the that-dragon-fight-turns-me-on thing was a bit goofy but I didn't feel like he was any more forced than Zev.
As for Dorian. I think Dorian is a great character and the only one whose character revolves around their sexuality. Yes his quest is about his sexuality, but it makes sense. In the end it's about family and other very Dragon Age-y things like Tevinter and blood magic. So I'm fine with a character's story is all about their sexuality, if it makes sense.
I don't know why we're having this debate again.
BioWare can and should include a range of different characters.
That includes BioWare's choice to include trans characters if well written, just like any other character.
Do we have to have a flame-bait discussion about this?
Truly I hope BioWare says nothing about gender and/or orientation romance preferences before the game ships,
then we can just play it without arguing for endless months beforehand, and enjoy the choices before us...
Well I'm gonna get jumped on for this but no, I wouldn't.
No matter how it's done it'll look like they're pandering to the current mood, SJWs, social media or whatever. Even if it's a beautifully written story and a great character, many ppl, and perhaps the media, will start rolling their eyes no matter how it's handled.
I don't know if you've been following gaming media for the past two years or so, but "pandering" to SJWs is something they very much approve of, and certainly not something they would roll their eyes at. They're likely to heap praise upon anything that's inclusive, no matter how well, or poorly it's handled.
Gaming journalists are overwhelmingly in the "straight cis white males are the devil and they harass women in gaming because they're women" camp. Despite most of them being straight, cis, white males themselves.
If there's still people thinking that putting a trans person would be too controversial, maybe a hermaphroditic alien race who generally think gender binary and the all-female Asari as abominations, its a scifi anyway. But I don't see the problem of having both trans human male and female in the game either as romance or supporting characters.
Nobody point at Kasumi, Emily Wong, Khalisah and Samesh Bhatia and claim that they're being forced fed with POC/ethnic diversity and wished for a generic white NPCs instead. Some years ago, stuff like this might have raised some hell.
As a romance option, it may take away options, and romance budget is limited. It's not a simple matter of giving everyone everything.
But that was exactly the point -- there's no reality check on the Qun. If some fact is inconvenient for the Qun, then reality is reinterpreted to conform to the Qun. We see this in several other areas going back to DA2, where the Arishok has lost zero qunari. (One of the regulars here -- In Exile, I think -- said that the Qun was basically made of the No True Scotsman fallacy; Gaider approved.)
We thought Sten was saying that the Warden shouldn't fight because she was female, but he was actually saying that the Warden should stop being female. Which would be a far more efficient outcome than the former.
Yeah I get that but the aqun-athlok concept raises so many questions. How does one discover that they are an aqun athlok? How do the tammasrans determine that a person is an aqun athlok? Can a dude who doesn't want to be a soldier pretend that he's an aqun athlok to get out of the military? etc.
What doesn't make sense to me is that the Qunari society is so restrictive that it should be next to impossible for a trans kid to come out of the closet but somehow aqun-athloks are a thing.
That's revisionism. That was clearly not the original intention of that exchange.
I genuinely found it surprising that DA:I got a lot of flak for its handling of sexually diverse characters. After playing the game I thought that Krem was the only one that felt forced.
Kaiden and Cortez were handled in a "btw I like men" way. There's no real discussion about their sexuality after you find out that they like men. Sera and Josephine are handled in the exact same way. Another thing to note is that none of them fall into stereotypes of their sexuality.
To me Iron Bull's sexuality just reminded me of Zevran but with BDSM thrown in. He just bangs everything. Sure the that-dragon-fight-turns-me-on thing was a bit goofy but I didn't feel like he was any more forced than Zev.
As for Dorian. I think Dorian is a great character and the only one whose character revolves around their sexuality. Yes his quest is about his sexuality, but it makes sense. In the end it's about family and other very Dragon Age-y things like Tevinter and blood magic. So I'm fine with a character's story is all about their sexuality, if it makes sense.
It's one thing if Iron Bull is the only bisexual character, but they have a lot of promiscuous bisexual characters, there's one in every DA game. Kaidan is a carbon copy from female Shepard romance, and a water down version with scenes cut out at that. He's essentially straight but just enable for male Shepard to romance, all of his lines are about females like Edi, his ex, Liara, etc. Tevinter dislikes of homosexuality didn't get mentioned until DAI, and Dorian is written from David Gaider's personal experience, so he creates a world where gay people being oppressed once again just to tell a story you see everywhere on movies and TV shows. It's just cliche. It's a bit weird how a matriarchal society has Tevinter who is evil, own slaves, patriarchal, homophobic. It's like they attribute every evil thing toward Tevinter who is headed by guys.
These are good questions. My best guess is that it would be strictly a tamassran call.Yeah I get that but the aqun-athlok concept raises so many questions. How does one discover that they are an aqun athlok? How do the tammasrans determine that a person is an aqun athlok? Can a dude who doesn't want to be a soldier pretend that he's an aqun athlok to get out of the military? etc.
What doesn't make sense to me is that the Qunari society is so restrictive that it should be next to impossible for a trans kid to come out of the closet but somehow aqun-athloks are a thing.
They retconned the absolute **** out of the Qunari in DAI. They clearly decided sometime between DA2 and DAI that "Islamic Communists" was no longer the thing, and changed it to "I guess, like, uhhhh... I don't know! Shut up!" They're so inconsistent, so nonsensical, and so much less interesting than the Arishok was.
The DA team really can't commit to a single ****ing thing.
My most hated retcon was how the Qun went from only having sex for procreation to having state-sponsored sex slaves be a role in the Qun.
Bioware has different teams, DA team and ME team are different, DA has gay relationship from the very beginning while ME needs a lot of fans complaining and executive meddling to even include it in the game.
While the Asari are mono-gendered, they still would probably be classified as all female... so how does that not make what FemShep and Liara have anything other than a lesbian relationship that we can pursue through all three games in the series?
Kaidan even brings this up in ME1 during the love-triangle scene, beginning to ask FemShep rather bluntly whether she's a lesbian, but catching himself and going with "I didn't realise you preferred other women?" Liara deflects the issue with the mono-gendered explanation as why she's not technically a woman, but still... isn't that all just semantics? Being attracted to both Kaidan and Liara in this scenario means Shepard would still have to be bisexual.
While the Asari are mono-gendered, they still would be classified as technically all female... so how does that not make what FemShep and Liara have anything other than a lesbian relationship that we can pursue through all three games in the series?
Kaidan even brings this up in ME1 during the love-triangle scene, beginning to ask rather bluntly whether she's a lesbian, but catching himself and going with "I didn't realise you preferred other women?" Then Liara deflects the issue with the mono-gendered explanation as why she's not technically a woman, but still... isn't that all just semantics? Being attracted to both Kaidan and Liara in this scenario means Shepard would have to be at least bisexual.
Funny enough, the writer explicitly said that Asari are not lesbians. Plus, is the relationship made for lesbians or for straight guys? A bisexual blue alien all females who want to reproduce with other races other than themselves. "Lesbians are hot" and all. This is why a lot of the games have lesbians instead of gays if only one is in the game. Why did it take them 3 games to put in a gay relationship? Even if we accept that Asari are not lesbians, when Kelly was revealed to also be bisexual, they really have no legs to stand on with that argument.
It's one thing if Iron Bull is the only bisexual character, but they have a lot of promiscuous bisexual characters, there's one in every DA game. Kaidan is a carbon copy from female Shepard romance, and a water down version with scenes cut out at that. He's essentially straight but just enable for male Shepard to romance, all of his lines are about females like Edi, his ex, Liara, etc. Tevinter dislikes of homosexuality didn't get mentioned until DAI, and Dorian is written from David Gaider's personal experience, so he creates a world where gay people being oppressed once again just to tell a story you see everywhere on movies and TV shows. It's just cliche. It's a bit weird how a matriarchal society has Tevinter who is evil, own slaves, patriarchal, homophobic. It's like they attribute every evil thing toward Tevinter who is headed by guys.
I absolutely agree that the "Promiscuous Bisexual" trope is definitely something on which Bioware relies too heavily.
The "Sexuality in Thedas" codex was in WoT and it wasn't that Tevinter dislikes gays, it's the nobility who dislike it because it doesn't produce offspring.
Sure. So what? The Qun's more interesting this way.
It was a dopey conversation in DA:O anyway. The Warden doesn't get to ask Sten the obvious question -- does he actually want the Warden, Morrigan, and Leliana to go home and bake cookies while he and Alistair handle the Blight? If not, then what's his point?
Even if we accept that Asari are not lesbians, when Kelly was revealed to also be bisexual, they really have no legs to stand on with that argument.
Kelly wasn't revealed to be bisexual. She is an orientation that involves attraction to either sex, but she has never been explicitly identified as bisexual.
While the Asari are mono-gendered, they still would be classified as technically all female... so how does that not make what FemShep and Liara have anything other than a lesbian relationship that we can pursue through all three games in the series?
Kaidan even brings this up in ME1 during the love-triangle scene, beginning to ask rather bluntly whether she's a lesbian, but catching himself and going with "I didn't realise you preferred other women?" Liara deflects the issue with the mono-gendered explanation as why she's not technically a woman, but still... isn't that all just semantics? Being attracted to both Kaidan and Liara in this scenario means Shepard would still have to be bisexual.
I see what you mean but I think Battlebloodmage is referring to male homosexuality which I think was intended to have been in the series from the beginning but were never implemented. There was apparently at one point a rather unfortunate comment made about how male Shepard was considered canonically straight. This was prior to Mass Effect 3, I believe.
If what I've heard is true about how Liara has dialogue in which she claims she cannot be considered female because the asari are monogendered then that would make the use of the term monogender a rather odd choice since to my perhaps faulty knowledge, monogender is about a single gender.
Would that not be like a woman saying: "I cannot be considered female because I can only be female"?
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