671 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Assuming the individual is still willing and capable of reproduction, there's no issue. It's not an issue with males in any event; really, if you want a lot of genetic diversity you should send only women and a lot of frozen diverse sperm.

Which, by way of aside, is something I never got with Plan B in Interstellar. Michael Caine knew full well Plan A was just an opiate for the masses. The only hope for survival was Plan B. So he sends... 3 dudes and 1 woman? Cooper kind of makes sense as the pilot, but everyone else?

[Nicholas_]

I would rather the developers focus on making good characters and enviorments instead of worrying about gender.

[vbibbi]

I should preface this possibly bit ranty post by saying that this was not transition surgery. It was jaw surgery for those interested and was considered necessary enough for my health that the majority of the bill was footed;
 
I underwent an operation about a year or so ago: it is considered a routine procedure but the thing is and as the doctors would tell me post-surgery; it is considered normal and is downright expected that you feel as if it is the worst decision you have ever made and I can safely say, it did feel like that. I cannot properly describe what it felt like to go through the recovery period so I'll describe it thusly; it was like living through a horrible nightmare. My recovery period took over a month but each week felt like a month in itself. I required so much care and emotional support. My mother went out of her way to be there and help me. Without it, that hospital window in my room would have started to look more and more inviting each day.      
 
This is likely part of why the following response to someone not wanting to go through surgery for something is a bit of a beserk button for me; "You must not want it badly enough then".
 
To not want to go through surgery is not an indication, to me, that a person do not want something badly enough because surgery, even routine and safe, can be a nightmare that can last even up to a year and no one should feel pressured to put themselves through that because they feel pressured for someone else's acceptance nor do it if they do not feel it is necessary. 
 
If I did not have the immense support I did, the window in my hospital room would have started to look inviting more and more each day.
 
There are a number of reasons why some people do not want surgery and treatments and if one of the reasons are "I do not think I could handle it", I'll certaintly not think less of them for it. I'll be more likely to commend them for being able to admit that to themselves because that can be incredibly hard but can be incredibly necessary.    
 
Note: This is not directed as a rant against you, vbibbi, this part of your post just reminded me of this.

I'm really sorry that you had to go through that and hope that you have fully recovered by now. I am fortunate that none of the surgeries I have ever undergone have had drastic recovery time or lasting pain. I would not wish that on anyone. And it is impressive that transgender people who have undergone reassignment surgery have done so over multiple sessions across a long period of time.

My line of questioning was more if the surgery/process for transitioning was not as painful or lengthy as it currently is, that some people who identify as transgender would still opt not to go through gender reassignment. I might have misinterpreted the previous statements, but I thought people had brought this up as an option.

Obviously, it's moot since in real life there is no easy answer.

[In Exile]

In a sense, but another angle is that an expedition like the ARK is going to need a high degree of social cohesion. The colony on the ARK represents the last chance for human society. As such, there aren't going to be many people included in the expedition who hold highly controversial or contrarian views. The individual we have been discussing would be a prime example of that. I would guess you wouldn't see many Amish (or their equivalent) or fundmentalist Muslims for similar reasons. They hold views that will create friction within the community, and the community has a limited number of individuals, enough so that it needs to stick together.

Like it or not, you need a community that can conform enough not to immediately become sub-divided and want to kill itself off as soon as it steps out of the boat. People going will be chosen with this in mind. Someone who openly refuses to transition when such a treatment is available may be tolerated by larger society back in the Milky Way, but may be too contrarian for a limited and closed society like the ARK one would have to be.

I'm pretty sure that a colony of this nature does not, in fact, need to be the kind of culturally and racially pure utopia that you describe. In fact, it can't exist. All that happens when you group sufficiently similar people is that they just subdivide further into groups. The US was founded by English Gentry, and they pulled off two civil war within a century or so of its founding. That's just not how humanity works.

The alliance is already multicultural.

[Seraphim24]

You know I feel like in these days...

 

Ok so this maybe contradicts some other impressions, but I feel in my opinion Bioware is making the most intense kind of "game/cinematic" thing like their ability to make sharp feeling air-tight experiences or whatever was always pretty cool but possibly even improved over time. In fact, maybe the game itself has improved in some way, in terms of abilities or biotics or whatever.

 

However, I think (JUST MY OPINION) their ability to make naturally resonant or emotional experiences (that connect, to people, regardless of artificial labels/gender etc) has diminished somewhat precipitously over that same period. It's not that it doesn't occur or have meaning for people (whose experiences I'm not attempting to contradicting), but that it has often been less impactful and do not get the feeling of warmth or welcoming.

 

I think that's why you have all these ardent debates going on around here and elsewhere, it's attempt to engineer the desired emotional result from the backend (does this work? Does that work?) Instead of analyzing it from a forward perspective (I sense this feeling, and desire to act on it, or create this positive reponse)

 

In my opinion, the ability of a variety of other games available to create such emotional response, as well as be compelling games/epic whatever it is, has been a problem for Bioware. I, myself the consumer, want just a compelling experiences, from whoever, but I must confess, and this is just my opinion, I find myself increasingly gravitating towards other media and games from, all kinds of places, that create that feeling of warmth, and which are also epic and compelling, etc.

 

I do not know if they will find a way to turn that around, but essentially that seems to be the heart of the problem in my opinion, and why perhaps, people have (and may continue to) gravitate towards other options.

[Hazegurl]

...?

 

I didn't assume anything. I just pointed out that there's a world of difference between "being called a gold digger for not looking for a date in a soup kitchen" and begin shallow in general and actively singling out "lower class" individuals with elitist requirements like that. And honestly? I don't really have a problem with people showing their colours like that. More power to them and me, since that makes it easy for me to nope nope nope away. And that's not even to say that I wouldn't date a highly educated, employed person who makes 700k+ a year, just that people who outline those as their "minimum requirements" are the type of people I wouldn't date (or associate with by choice in general, because I just can't see how that could be enjoyable to either of us).

Except stating that you would not date a homeless person does not in any way equal to the extreme "I want a billionaire."  Sure if someone stated that they would only date a billionaire, feel free to judge, heck you can judge the person who doesn't want to date a homeless guy if you like. But there isn't always a connection between the two.

 

This idea that you must leave yourself open to everyone and not consider any sort of factors (shallow or not) in choosing a partner, lest you hurt someone's feelings or be labeled some sort of monster is just a strange way to navigate the dating world. There are plenty of factors that could go into why a person would not date X person, that has nothing at all to do with hating them.

 

I wasn't particularly clear. What I was getting at was that to me there seems to be a difference between simply expressing attraction (I'm not into men/women/cats/otherkin) and expressing a preference in a way that, essentially, is aggressive or insulting toward others.

 

I don't think it's really possible to avoid insulting others when you state your preferences. Just stating "I love men." really isn't much to go on while trying to find a date. And you may very well end up with a list of men you don't find remotely attractive because your preferences are just too vague.

 

ie. If a person isn't interested in dating black people, I'd rather like to know that ahead of time in a relevant situation (dating site et al) so I wouldn't waste my time on them.  Now if a person is just randomly saying "I wouldn't date black people" in a situation/convo that is totally uncalled for, then yeah that's pretty weird.

 

In this topic however, I think stating whether or not you would date a transperson is relevant since the conversation did steer into romance as it always does on the BSN.

[Biotic Apostate]

To those saying trans people and same sex romances are somehow clashing with the story:

 

The Ark is not some huge f**kpad floating through space. If they want to survive the trip to Andromeda, they need loads of specialists. Mechanics, engineers, programmers, and pilots who keep the whole thing going, doctors/scientists, who make sure everyone stays alive, and if they want to preserve human culture, also writers, musicians, artists, teachers (you need them anyway to keep up the morale). Plenty of opportunity for some of those people to happen to be trans. Joker and Steve would not contribute to preserving the species directly, yet they'd be welcome on the Arc, because of their invaluable skills. And since the reapers are (at the time the Ark leaves) killing people at staggering rates, you're not going to turn down the gay pilot or the trans doctor, because they are crucial.

 

And that's only the first generation. Babies will be born, and among those there's bound to be some LGBT people. Some of them will become soldiers and join our squad (like the protagonist and the companions). It would be more improbable that after having LGBT people in the 1-3 timeline, over 100 years later they'd somehow be gone.

 

Also, you either have enough people that some individuals, who do not have kids are not a big deal, or you're facing inbreeding and risk serious mutations.

[Grieving Natashina]

To be fair, the OP did ask if folks would romance a transgender person.

[Hazegurl]

 

To those saying trans people and same sex romances are somehow clashing with the story:

 

The Ark is not some huge f**kpad floating through space. If they want to survive the trip to Andromeda, they need loads of specialists. Mechanics, engineers, programmers, and pilots who keep the whole thing going, doctors/scientists, who make sure everyone stays alive, and if they want to preserve human culture, also writers, musicians, artists, teachers (you need them anyway to keep up the morale). Plenty of opportunity for some of those people to happen to be trans. Joker and Steve would not contribute to preserving the species directly, yet they'd be welcome on the Arc, because of their invaluable skills. And since the reapers are (at the time the Ark leaves) killing people at staggering rates, you're not going to turn down the gay pilot or the trans doctor, because they are crucial.

 

And that's only the first generation. Babies will be born, and among those there's bound to be some LGBT people. Some of them will become soldiers and join our squad (like the protagonist and the companions). It would be more improbable that after having LGBT people in the 1-3 timeline, over 100 years later they'd somehow be gone.

 

Also, you either have enough people that some individuals, who do not have kids are not a big deal, or you're facing inbreeding and risk serious mutations.

 

I agree,  I also don't see why Cortez or any healthy LGBT person wouldn't be asked to contribute DNA.  Right now, DNA such as skin cells can be turned into sperm cells and just recently scientists may have discovered a way for same sex partners to have bio kids together.   Imagine what they would be able to do in hundreds of years.  I would imagine that traveling to a new galaxy would no longer be about keeping a bunch of fertilized frozen eggs and some back up frozen sperm on deck, but the actual DNA (outside of sperm and eggs) of the many different species they wish to preserve.  Cortez, being a healthy pilot, would be a great candidate for extracting and preserving DNA from, even if he ended up on the ARK.

[Draining Dragon]

The Ark is not some huge f**kpad floating through space.

It isn't?!?!

Pre-order cancelled.

[Sifr]

To be fair, the OP did ask if folks would romance a transgender person.

 

I think the depiction of the relationship between Marten and Claire from the webcomic Questionable Content has been handled this relatively well thus far. If the Bioware writers went for a trans romance, I'd hope they'd handle it a similar manner as Jeph Jacques did.

 

What I most liked was it was a depiction of a trans relationship that didn't go for the obvious drama angle.

 

Claire had revealed her trans status during their friendship that preceded it, so the only real drama was her insecurity about entering into her first real romantic relationship as a trans woman. Conversely, it didn't even phase Marten, as it's been long-established that most of his friends and family happen to be in the LGBT community. His mother was revealed to be bisexual and a fetish model famous in the industry, while his father is openly gay and Marten served as best man at his wedding.

 

Incidentally, for those who think future medical tech will somehow magically eliminate the issue of transitions, this strip was extremely appropriate.

[Battlebloodmage]

The issue ends up being how many people would want to romance a transgender character. If we based off of this forum or tumblr or reddit, we could see support for Krem and Mae, but these results are often skewered from the demographic that are likely to participate in forum. It's like the number of people who play femShep, this forum will make it seems like most people played femShep while in reality, it's only about 18%. It's very skewered. Even based on the reaction here, most people wouldn't want to romance a trans person. I guess a poll could give us at least an idea of how many would want to romance a transgender person, even if the demographic is skewered. If it was a romance option, like if the straight guys have 2 options, would they make the trans option into one of the options? That seems like it's gonna be a big backlash.

[daveliam]

The issue ends up being how many people would want to romance a transgender character. If we based off of this forum or tumblr or reddit, we could see support for Krem and Mae, but these results are often skewered from the demographic that are likely to participate in forum. It's like the number of people who play femShep, this forum will make it seems like most people played femShep while in reality, it's only about 18%. It's very skewered. Even based on the reaction here, most people wouldn't want to romance a trans person. I guess a poll could give us at least an idea of how many would want to romance a transgender person, even if the demographic is skewered. If it was a romance option, like if the straight guys have 2 options, would they make the trans option into one of the options? That seems like it's gonna be a big backlash.

 

People used this exact same argument just a few years ago as to why there shouldn't be gay romances in games too.  Not compelling as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't (frankly, that's their call), but the "the audience is so small it's a waste of resources" is disappointing hear again, given that it was used against gay romances recently enough that people should remember that it holds little weight.

[Battlebloodmage]

People used this exact same argument just a few years ago as to why there shouldn't be gay romances in games too.  Not compelling as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't (frankly, that's their call), but the "the audience is so small it's a waste of resources" is disappointing hear again, given that it was used against gay romances recently enough that people should remember that it holds little weight.

I understand why they don't have gay romances in the game, and I didn't fault them for not having it or any game for not having it. I sometimes just poke fun at how they have lesbian romances since it's just to appeal to straight males. I appreciate them having it now. Still, in term of transgender, there is a rejection from many people who play gay and straight characters. The issue becomes would that option be count as the straight option? If there's a trans option, I can be certain that many straight guys would be even more pissed than the fallout we had for Baldur's Gate. Would it be a exclusive trans option out of the typical options? It's like the argument with complete asexuals and whether the option would count as the straight option. 

[Eromenos]

Yes. Should be playable and be represented in the squad/crew/population of ME:A. Especially the humans.

 

I'm not going to romance but I might play one and would be happy to have trans characters watching my back and vice-versa. Can be villains too but better not be exclusively so.

[Hazegurl]

People used this exact same argument just a few years ago as to why there shouldn't be gay romances in games too.  Not compelling as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't (frankly, that's their call), but the "the audience is so small it's a waste of resources" is disappointing hear again, given that it was used against gay romances recently enough that people should remember that it holds little weight.

I love romancing Kaidan and he is perhaps the least popular companion according to statistics. It would have sucked if BW decided not to even put him in ME3 or use resources to a MM romance with him based on popularity.

[Battlebloodmage]

I love romancing Kaidan and he is perhaps the least popular companion according to statistics. It would have sucked if BW decided not to even put him in ME3 or use resources to a MM romance with him based on popularity.

Kaidan is my favorite gay romance as well. Although I wonder if they use Kaidan because there would be less backlash rather than a popular option than Garrus since most people saved Ashley, and Kaidan is dead in most people's games and you can choose to have him stay dead in a non-imported version, and his romance is basically a copy-paste version of femShep with scenes being cut out. Still glad to have Kaidan though, but hopefully, the next game, the options for gay romance doesn't get shoehorned as an NPC or an inferior version from the straight version.

[Cyonan]

People used this exact same argument just a few years ago as to why there shouldn't be gay romances in games too.  Not compelling as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't (frankly, that's their call), but the "the audience is so small it's a waste of resources" is disappointing hear again, given that it was used against gay romances recently enough that people should remember that it holds little weight.

 

At some point however BioWare is going to have to decide which romances are worth their time more so than others, because I'm going to say Inquisition is getting close to the limit, if not already at it, for the number of romances without them all feeling really underdeveloped.

 

I'm not saying it should be applied to the trans romance arguments, but at some point BioWare is going to have to choose what they want to focus on. Games like The Witcher 3 already have better developed romance story arcs because they only allowed for 2 to Inquisition's 8.

 

and as much as it sucks for some people, popularity isn't a terrible way to decide what to include for this sort of thing.

[Battlebloodmage]

 

At some point however BioWare is going to have to decide which romances are worth their time more so than others, because I'm going to say Inquisition is getting close to the limit, if not already at it, for the number of romances without them all feeling really underdeveloped.

 

I'm not saying it should be applied to the trans romance arguments, but at some point BioWare is going to have to choose what they want to focus on. Games like The Witcher 3 already have better developed romance story arcs because they only allowed for 2 to Inquisition's 8.

 

and as much as it sucks for some people, popularity isn't a terrible way to decide what to include for this sort of thing.

 

Although Bioware has already stated that the majority of people didn't use the romance content. Instead of a bunch of sexuality, just make 2-4 all bi options if they want to go cutting down and focus on deep contents. It's not like bisexuality were handled well in any Bioware game anyway. 

[Cyonan]

Although Bioware has already stated that the majority of people didn't use the romance content. Instead of a bunch of sexuality, just make 2-4 all bi options if they want to go cutting down and focus on deep contents. It's not like bisexuality were handled well in any Bioware game anyway. 

 

Well it's worth noting they tried making 4 bi romances and people complained about it in Dragon Age 2. In either case I do think that it'd be better to put more focus on less romances, but I imagine I'm not likely to get that.

 

BioWare seems to want to have romance content and have a lot of options which means that they might not be used as much doesn't really matter. Still, at some point it's going to get to a place where they're putting in so much of their resources just to do this.

 

They obviously can't include something for every single group, so at some point you have to start choosing what you think it better to focus on unless they intend on just straight up making a dating sim game at some point.

[Eromenos]

I loved that there were 4 bi romances in DA2. I'm positive those who complained about it being supposedly "unrealistic" were those who get offended that there could be "so many" 3-dimensional bisexual action-adventure individuals in one story. Straight and gay people alike can be so appallingly biphobic. And yet: https://yougov.co.uk...t-heterosexual/

 

Having all romances be bi comes across as less forced and more useful than requiring specific straight and specific gay and specific bi the way the other two Dragon Age games did.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I'm not saying it should be applied to the trans romance arguments, but at some point BioWare is going to have to choose what they want to focus on. Games like The Witcher 3 already have better developed romance story arcs because they only allowed for 2 to Inquisition's 8.

The Witcher 3 isn't really a good comparison for a couple reasons. First, Geralt is a fully predetermined character rather than a character left up to the player. Second, both relationships are ones established in the books and previous games whereas Dragon Age has a newcomer as a protagonist. 

[Sifr]

Y'know, the more people seem to complain about having a trans character soapboxing or included as a romance because of inclusion, the more I think we should just bite the bullet and instead make our lead protagonist possibly trans.

 

No-one could complain about soapboxing if we're the ones in the driving seat who decides if we want to discuss it or not. Nor would the appears of a trans character who can be romance seem "forced", because we'd always be in a trans relationship regardless of whom we ended up with.

 

I'm entirely cool with the idea of playing a protagonist who's trans... really, why does that present a problem for some people?

 

We're not (all) jacked or stacked dwarves, giants with grey skin and horns, or short, lithe and with pointed ears... yet it didn't seem to diminish the enjoyment factor of people playing these characters in Dragon Age? Why should playing a trans character be any different?

[Elhanan]

@ OP - No; not if the inclusion was simply done for it's own sake. So many shows and other forms of entertainment are doing just that currently, and it detracts from the very discussions they wish to promote.

[Battlebloodmage]

Y'know, the more people seem to complain about having a trans character soapboxing or included as a romance because of inclusion, the more I think we should just bite the bullet and instead make our lead protagonist possibly trans.

 

No-one could complain about soapboxing if we're the ones in the driving seat who decide if we want to or not. Nor would any romance seem "forced", because we'd be in a trans relationship regardless of whom we ended up with.

 

I'm entirely cool with the idea of playing a protagonist who's trans... really, why does that present a problem for some people?

 

We're not (all) jacked or stacked dwarves, giants with grey skin and horns, or short, lithe and with pointed ears... yet it didn't seem to diminish the enjoyment factor of people playing as those characters in Dragon Age? Why should playing a trans character be any different?

That's a terrible idea. You're cool with a trans protagonist, I don't. I don't identity with a trans character, I make a character that resemble me, in term of sex, gender, and race. This is why often advocate for more race variety in Bioware character creation. I wouldn't be role playing as myself, but it would just be watching a character that is not myself playing the game. It wouldn't be role playing game. Fantasy race is one thing, but real life identity is another thing. That's why no one bat an eyelash at fantasy racism and slavery but using real life discrimination is a big deal.