671 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

But why can't society change? It already did with the rest of the LGBT community. Not to mention that because of said advanced tech, trans people would be living in "stealth", and no one would likely know they are even transgender unless they tell them.

 

I'm not saying that it couldn't, just that it'd be a slow progress that cannot be overcome in such a short time, unless serious effort from everyone was made. Some Asari haven't managed to eliminate this trait in thousands of years when it comes to how certain Asari pairings with other races are viewed... so why do we expect humanity could pull it off straight out of the gate?

 

I get what you're saying that the medical tech means they could perhaps perfectly transition. But I disagree with the idea of them being in "stealth" because that sounds far too much like they're being forced to hide who they are as if it is something shameful. It'd make transition become less a choice for them to personally make and more something a heteronormative society might pressure them to undergo to conform, as if to say "Fine, you're now X gender, do not talk about it anymore."

 

I know that's probably not what you meant. But a society that rather than accepting individuals - trans or indeed anyone - seeks to instead make it so they can remain unseen, to avoid having to deal with them, does not come across as a perfect utopia to me.

[BansheeOwnage]

There is no indication that health care or mental care is for profit in the citadel space in fact i recall seeing the exact opposite. Second it assumes that transitioning is a long and dangerous process what if it isn't? Hell major near death trauma can be cured with simply applying medi-gel, which in the past would have require surgery to heal and months of rehabilitation to heal. So again there is evidence to suggest the process wouldn't be difficult or costly. 

 

I think "transgender" will become a thing of the past because of technology, if they can genetically make you whatever gender you want are you trans? If you are XX or XY genetically regardless of the gender of your birth are you not fully your current gender? And if we imagine a more enlightened era wouldn't this ability to change gender just be viewed as essential to a healthy self identity?

 

So if we want to have start a conversation on social issue which sci-fi fiction has been doing since its inception so very much in line with the genre would it not be better to have a discussion about gender in a different way? Maybe we encounter people who have no set gender but go about life changing their gender every 5 or so years. Someone who was A gender at birth but is now B gender but it is only revealed in the story because we meet a friend of the squad mate and they slip with a pronoun because they are recalling a past event they did together. Or a squadmate/crewmember says the one thing they miss about being a X gender was the plumbing in the space suit was more comfortable. just an offhand remark that makes mention their current gender hasn't always been the same.

 

I think this is a better way to introduce gender identity to mass effect than transplanting directly an issue from the present and make no adjustments to the issues. It will feel out of place if technology does nothing to help with gender identity. 

 

I think a fantasy setting and a contemporary setting or near future setting makes sense to directly talk about transgender issues but in a future where gender reassignment is 100% functional, safe and not just cosmetic will there be transgender issues? People don't do gender reassignment surgery today because there are major health risks with surgery and hormone therapy. But if these risks are near zero who is going to say no "I don't want to be the gender I identify as?

I agree. Since it's been brought up, I do think there is room in ME to actually show representation of other kinds of transgender people besides transsexuals, since transgender is an umbrella term (types of transgender people that not many people have heard of who might need representation). Having a bi-gender or a-gender person who semi-regularly changes appearance would be one example of doing that.

 

But for transsexual transgender people specifically, when you can go so far as to grow cloned organs from your own DNA and have gene therapy, I don't see how or why it would need to come up past an off-handed reference to a character's past. Which would be fine, but it doesn't need to be more than that.

 

I dunno, it seems hard to swallow that Mass Effect would be a perfect utopia where LGBT individuals are treated with the same amount of respect as anyone else... but there are still people around who clearly have the attitude that "aliens, they're only here to steal our jobs and take our women!"

 

I suppose humanity might be more inclined to let human prejudices go first, before extending that courtesy to our interstellar neighbours. Still, given that it's part and parcel of the same basic issue about overcoming prejudice, you'd imagine one would go with the other?

 

Isn't there a female NPC in the embassy in ME3 who comments on their family abandoning them for having married an Asari? The Asari are even older hats at this than we are and they still sometimes show prejudice towards Asari who married Krogan or Batarians. It doesn't seem like society has progressed that far towards such a utopian ideal.

It's not that Mass Effect is a utopia. Even the post-scarcity Star Trek universe isn't a utopia, though it's closer than ME. But it is shown that basically all of the current discrimination problems we face within our species are gone: racism, sexism, and discrimination towards LGB and presumably T people... it's 99% gone. So at the very least, it would be inconsistent to make being transgender such a big deal in ME.

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm not saying that it couldn't, just that it'd be a slow progress that cannot be overcome in such a short time, unless serious effort from everyone was made. Some Asari haven't managed to eliminate this trait in thousands of years when it comes to how certain Asari pairings with other races are viewed... so why do we expect humanity could pull it off straight out of the gate?

 

I get what you're saying that the medical tech means they could perhaps perfectly transition. But I disagree with the idea of them being in "stealth" because that sounds far too much like they're being forced to hide who they are as if it is something shameful. It'd make transition become less a choice for them to personally make and more something a heteronormative society might pressure them to undergo to conform, as if to say "Fine, you're now X gender, do not talk about it anymore."

 

I know that's probably not what you meant. But a society that rather than accepting individuals - trans or indeed anyone - seeks to instead make it so they can remain unseen, to avoid having to deal with them, does not come across as a perfect utopia to me.

There is nothing to say Earth has the same history as the real world and that these changes didn't already happen 

 

Yes, they SHOULD be remained unseen, they're nothing special about them. That's how things must be. If you're LGBT, you want to be treated as normal, as regular. That's the entire point. A perfect utopia is where if someone were born as the wrong gender, they can change it and it's not a big deal. Anymore than that, and the issue becomes you want people to recognize you for what reason? Why do they care? Is there something special about it? You want a transphobic element in the game when it's not even necessary for the story and wouldn't expand on the world in any way rather than talking about the advancement of society and medicine where it's no longer an issue. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm not saying that it couldn't, just that it'd be a slow progress that cannot be overcome in such a short time, unless serious effort from everyone was made. Some Asari haven't managed to eliminate this trait in thousands of years when it comes to how certain Asari pairings with other races are viewed... so why do we expect humanity could pull it off straight out of the gate?

 

I get what you're saying that the medical tech means they could perhaps perfectly transition. But I disagree with the idea of them being in "stealth" because that sounds far too much like they're being forced to hide who they are as if it is something shameful. It'd make transition become less a choice for them to personally make and more something a heteronormative society might pressure them to undergo to conform, as if to say "Fine, you're now X gender, do not talk about it anymore."

 

I know that's probably not what you meant. But a society that rather than accepting individuals - trans or indeed anyone - seeks to instead make it so they can remain unseen, to avoid having to deal with them, does not come across as a perfect utopia to me.

We're currently overcoming a lot of discrimination at a rate much higher than the rest of history. Not that it's been eliminated, but we're getting there. 150 more years? I could see transgender people not being an issue. But all of that is moot since it's already been established that the rest of the LGBT community's problems are gone in ME. So again, why is it okay for them but not for trans people?

 

The asari aren't the best example, since they live more than 10 times as long as current humans and therefore appear to be rather stagnant when it comes to social issues, when really they could be evolving within the same number of generations as humans. But it's also moot, since they're not humans. Just because a fictional species has its troubles doesn't mean humans have to. Or krogan. Etc.

 

You're right, that wasn't what I was trying to say, which is why I put "stealth" in quotes. I wasn't implying that ME's trans people would be hiding, or ashamed, but rather: Why would they bring up that they're transgender, any more than any given cis person goes around saying they're cis? When your gender aligns with your body physically, biologically, even genetically, why bring it up, other than referring to your past if it's relevant?

 

It's not that they can't bring it up. It's not that they shouldn't. It's that they don't need to.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

I get what you're saying that the medical tech means they could perhaps perfectly transition. But I disagree with the idea of them being in "stealth" because that sounds far too much like they're being forced to hide who they are as if it is something shameful. It'd make transition become less a choice for them to personally make and more something a heteronormative society might pressure them to undergo to conform, as if to say "Fine, you're now X gender, do not talk about it anymore."

 

I know that's probably not what you meant. But a society that rather than accepting individuals - trans or indeed anyone - seeks to instead make it so they can remain unseen, to avoid having to deal with them, does not come across as a perfect utopia to me.

 

If they can perfectly transition, why would they talk about it to any significant degree? They wouldn't be trans as an identity because they wouldn't be transitioning, or any sense of stuck between- they'd simply be. And they wouldn't go 'I was a man, but now a woman' when describing themselves- they'd say they were always a woman, because that's the idea of trans.

 

If perfect transition is possible and socially accepted, a transitioning wouldn't be remarkable- it'd be unremarkable. Unremarkable things aren't hidden because they're shameful, they just aren't remarked upon unless they're relevant. Which, in most respects, they wouldn't be- people would treat and view them as they are now.

 

It could be less relevant than changing schools as a child. Hardly a dirty secret- but hardly the crux of who you are either.

[Darvins]

Sure why not. As long as they're well written that's all that matters to me. Even if the character is included for the sake of diversity, just make them well written.

 

Although I'm not convinced that BW can handle trans characters. Krem was fine and all but the conversation was a bit heavy-handed and the little lecture IB gave about aqun-athloks made no sense. A culture that is all about gender roles and following orders is somehow 100% ok with transgendered people? That's the kind of stuff I don't want to see in ME:A.

 

Because in the Qun, role determines Gender, not Gender role. It's  a different take on gender, that is not as open minded as it first appears to be. Cassandra for example, is unlikely to be allowed under the Qun to identify as Female, she'd be classed as Male because she's a warrior. We see in Krem someone who would benefit, and perhaps we also see how Iron Bull has moved away from the Qun already by that point. Taking the view that Role determines Gender, making him already comfortable with the idea that someone who doesn't have a penis can be Male, he's able to accept far easier that sometimes people do not identify with their assigned at birth gender, but he'd be willing to accept that Role does not determine Gender.

[Battlebloodmage]

If they can perfectly transition, why would they talk about it to any significant degree? They wouldn't be trans as an identity because they wouldn't be transitioning, or any sense of stuck between- they'd simply be. And they wouldn't go 'I was a man, but now a woman' when describing themselves- they'd say they were always a woman, because that's the idea of trans.

 

If perfect transition is possible and socially accepted, a transitioning wouldn't be remarkable- it'd be unremarkable. Unremarkable things aren't hidden because they're shameful, they just aren't remarked upon unless they're relevant. Which, in most respects, they wouldn't be- people would treat and view them as they are now.

 

It could be less relevant than changing schools as a child. Hardly a dirty secret- but hardly the crux of who you are either.

A lot of the time, transgender people reveal their identity are because the transphobic notion and people feel like they're being lied to. Transgender women got killed many times by guys after their secrets are revealed. 

 

If the transition is perfect with no problem, and the society accept transgender individuals as the actual gender they feel like they were born into, then there is no reason for them to mention about it to anyone. 

[Sifr]

 

Yes, they SHOULD be remained unseen, they're nothing special about them. That's how things must be. If you're LGBT, you want to be treated as normal, as regular. That's the entire point. A perfect utopia is where if someone were born as the wrong gender, they can change it and it's not a big deal. Anymore than that, and the issue becomes you want people to recognize you for what reason? Why do they care? Is there something special about it? You want a transphobic element in the game when it's not even necessary for the story and wouldn't expand on the world in any way rather than talking about the advancement of society and medicine where it's no longer an issue. 

 

I get what you're saying and you are right that it's not an issue, so why would it be brought up? They wouldn't of course. I doubt anyone would ever use that as an opening line at the bar or just drop it into conversation at the checkout line. Still doesn't mean they might never talk about it ever though.

 

A lot of people seem to assume that even if a perfect transition is medically possible, everyone would choose to transition. Not everyone who's trans in our world chooses to do this, so why might this be untrue in the future? Some might not want to, or simply can't, due to either economic reasons or location. We know that parts of Earth still have slums and some off-world colonies have people who don't undergo gene therapy to correct medical issues, such as Traynor having asthma.

 

I agree that transgender individuals in ME would not neither need this necessarily remarked on or even acknowledged.

 

It just seems to me like using the argument that future medicine would be perfectly able to transition them, seems to negate why we're talking about having transgendered people appear in Mass Effect at all? If they are so unseen as to not be noticed, then it's no different than not having someone trans appear or retconning it so there were trans individuals that we saw but didn't know.

 

For instance, say if someone like Dr Michel was actually revealed to have been MTF trans... despite neither having addressed it or made any kind of "deal" about it, you just know that some in the fandom would still complain about it or Bioware "retconning characters solely to promote an agenda?"

[Battlebloodmage]

I get what you're saying and you're right, it's not an issue so why would people need to bring it up? They wouldn't, of course.

 

But you seem to assume that even if a perfect transition is medically possible, everyone would choose to transition. Not everyone who's trans in our world chooses to do this, so why might this be untrue in the future? Some might not want to, or simply can't, due to either economic reasons or location. We know that parts of Earth still have slums and some off-world colonies have people who don't undergo gene therapy to correct medical issues, such as Traynor having asthma.

 

I agree that transgender individuals in ME would not neither need this necessarily remarked on or even acknowledged.

 

It just seems to me like using the argument that future medicine would be perfectly able to transition them, seems to negate why we're talking about having transgendered people appear in Mass Effect at all? If they are so unseen as to not be noticed, then it's no different than not having someone trans appear or retconning it so there were trans individuals that we saw but didn't know.

 

For instance, say if someone like Dr Michel was actually revealed to have been MTF trans... despite neither having addressed it or made any kind of "deal" about it, you just know that some in the fandom would still complain about it or Bioware retconning characters solely to promote an agenda?

I don't see why we can accept that Miranda as a genetically engineered woman or how we could surgically implant psychic power into others but not that future medicine can transformed people. 

 

I wouldn't complain, like I didn't complain when Dumbledore was revealed as gay. People will complain all the time, they would still complain and call it an agenda if you put them into the game and make transphobic become an issue for a soap opera like with Dorian. Either ways, they would complain. They complain because they have an issue with transgender, not whether you reveal them off-screen or on-screen. 

[Prince Enigmatic]

Looking at the state of society, and in the case of the film industry, especially Hollywood, its clear that societal issues and better representation is still an issue that isn't being tackled. Hell, currently the way Hollywood is it hasn't changed since its films in the 50s, representation wise pretty much.

 

And politically there is still rampant racism and sexism, made all the more public by people like Donald Trump (I'm going to clamp the lid shut on that can of worms now).

 

What I'm trying to say is, that I can see both sides of the argument in regards to how LGBT people are treated in the future of ME or just ME in general. I don't think we can take how Cortez was treated as an overall, universal treatment to all LGBT people.

 

I think that since Mass Effect is a fictional property, and that it can basically do whatever the hell it wants with its science-fiction setting and bend the rules of realism a lot and not go completely off the rails, portraying a "utopia" where LGBT people are treated as equals and there's no longer discrimination shouldn't be seen as a break in realism, since its in the future after all and it can do whatever it wants with how society has changed in its depiction of the future. Personally I'd like to see this, and would hope that the way Cortez was treated is the same everywhere. Its just as normal as a male character mourning the loss of their wife, no big deal, no defining of sexuality. Equal treatment.

 

Of course if Mass Effect chose to borrow more from real life situations and the way society currently is, and portray that in some quarters, acceptance and equal treatment isn't universal, that too wouldn't be a total break in realism. Because in 150 years time I hope things will improve, but as history as repeatedly shown, things go round in circles, and in the cases of media representation, films and Hollywood (and most video games in truth) still have a long way to come in equal representation and the rest. 

[Sifr]

I don't see why we can accept that Miranda as a genetically engineered woman or how we could surgically implant psychic power into others but not that future medicine can transformed people.

 

It's not that such advanced meditech is impossible, just that everyone might want to under such procedures, even if they were available.

 

I'm on the autistic spectrum, but if you told me that ME had a means to prevent or "correct" autism via gene therapy, I'd balk at the idea of having it done. It'd be no different than Dorian's father wanting to futz with his mind to "correct" his homosexuality, because we're treating something as a defect when it's not. Furthermore such a procedure would fundamentally change the person I am and the person who'd leave that hospital room would not be me anymore... not really. Nor would David Archer be the same if he had it done to him.

 

Star Trek DS9 actually had an episode very similar to this, where we learn that Julian Bashir underwent illegal augmentation as a child. Despite his parents wanting only the best for him, he resents them for having "thrown away" their child away because he was slow to make a better one, considering himself not their son but their "creation".

 

My point is that just because ME medicine could potentially perform miracles and cure anything, doesn't mean that people would want or even feel the need to have them done, despite having the option available to them. Granted I could see many trans individuals seeking to take advantage of such good medical technology, but we still have to admit it'd be a bit unrealistic to suggest every single trans individual in the entire galaxy has transitioned.

[o Ventus]

Looking at the state of society, and in the case of the film industry, especially Hollywood, its clear that societal issues and better representation is still an issue that isn't being tackled. Hell, currently the way Hollywood is it hasn't changed since its films in the 50s, representation wise pretty much.

 

You're kidding, right?

[Abraham_uk]

There is no should or shouldn't.

That said, it would be pretty awesome to have transgender characters.

[Prince Enigmatic]

You're kidding, right?

 

On which part? 

 

And no I'm not. This is my own opinion btw, I'm not outright stating any of that as fact. And I do think that at the current moment, a lot of films churned out by Hollywood, especially ones that sweep awards season, show that as an industry Hollywood is not reflecting our society, but is certainly reflecting the industry itself as not having changed that much.

[straykat]

Looking at the state of society, and in the case of the film industry, especially Hollywood, its clear that societal issues and better representation is still an issue that isn't being tackled. Hell, currently the way Hollywood is it hasn't changed since its films in the 50s, representation wise pretty much.

 

And politically there is still rampant racism and sexism, made all the more public by people like Donald Trump (I'm going to clamp the lid shut on that can of worms now).

 

What I'm trying to say is, that I can see both sides of the argument in regards to how LGBT people are treated in the future of ME or just ME in general. I don't think we can take how Cortez was treated as an overall, universal treatment to all LGBT people.

 

I think that since Mass Effect is a fictional property, and that it can basically do whatever the hell it wants with its science-fiction setting and bend the rules of realism a lot and not go completely off the rails, portraying a "utopia" where LGBT people are treated as equals and there's no longer discrimination shouldn't be seen as a break in realism, since its in the future after all and it can do whatever it wants with how society has changed in its depiction of the future. Personally I'd like to see this, and would hope that the way Cortez was treated is the same everywhere. Its just as normal as a male character mourning the loss of their wife, no big deal, no defining of sexuality. Equal treatment.

 

Of course if Mass Effect chose to borrow more from real life situations and the way society currently is, and portray that in some quarters, acceptance and equal treatment isn't universal, that too wouldn't be a total break in realism. Because in 150 years time I hope things will improve, but as history as repeatedly shown, things go round in circles, and in the cases of media representation, films and Hollywood (and most video games in truth) still have a long way to come in equal representation and the rest. 

 

As much as I don't care for strict realism, this is a little ridiculous. Mass Effect isn't some vehicle for your (or anyone's) idealism. It's not here to present a "utopia".

 

if you just said you wanted certain types of characters, that's cool.. but when you put it in these terms, it's just sad.

[Puddi III]

If the only acceptable scenario for a trans relationship in fiction is that it must happen in X, Y, Z steps, I'll give that the same considerations I would any other demand of how fiction 'must' follow certain characteristics in order to be morally acceptable.
 
Which is to say, about as much as people who consider anything they don't like as too much, whether it be tokens or minorities as villains or even the possiblity of something they don't morally approve of.

I stop short of saying what is or isn't acceptable in what is supposed to be a mature work of fiction. Just that it probably wouldn't gel with BioWare's reputation as striving to be positively inclusive of various lgbt spectrum people. That is, I don't think that is the sort of inclusion a trans person would necessarily appreciate. Only because it is a particularly pernicious stereotype- as above mentioned, trans people are killed for this sort of thing.

[Prince Enigmatic]

As much as I don't care for strict realism, this is a little ridiculous. Mass Effect isn't some vehicle for your (or anyone's) idealism. It's not here to present a "utopia".

 

if you just said you wanted certain types of characters, that's cool.. but when you put it in these terms, it's just sad.

 

I was merely commenting on how I saw both sides of the argument for how the universe of Mass Effect, universally, would treat and/or accept LGBT issues and how it handled discrimination etc. in regards to characters that we've seen before like Steve.

 

I'm well aware that Mass Effect isn't a vehicle for my own idealism, I was saying that if it were to depict a "utopia", (which I quoted from someone else, I didn't use that term to describe it), then I wouldn't have a problem with it, mainly because that way a portion of the writing wouldn't be having to tackle LGBT issues hundreds of years in the future. I'd personally much rather there be these characters and they are handled and treated like Steve was. 

 

I'm not sure which part I worded in my other post confused you into thinking I strictly wanted a utopia of sorts, i was establishing how i could see how both cases would work in the series, based on my own opinion.

[o Ventus]

On which part? 

 

And no I'm not. This is my own opinion btw, I'm not outright stating any of that as fact. And I do think that at the current moment, a lot of films churned out by Hollywood, especially ones that sweep awards season, show that as an industry Hollywood is not reflecting our society, but is certainly reflecting the industry itself as not having changed that much.

 

The entire bit in my quote. Having a quota of gay/trans/[insert demographic here] people in every mainstream Hollywood movie is not representative of reality in a country where LGBT people make up roughly 7% of the population (or roughly 22 million in a country with roughly 320 million). Or to use another example, that whole OscarsSoWhite debacle from the last Oscar season, where people were clamoring about how racist Hollywood is for not having black people in every movie ever made, even though black people only make up around 12% of the population here.

 

It may come as a shock, but Hollywood is not as racist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever other kind of phobic that people like to paint it as. They are aware of the demographics and cater to those demographics.

[Battlebloodmage]

It's not that such advanced meditech is impossible, just that everyone might want to under such procedures, even if they were available.

 

I'm on the autistic spectrum, but if you told me that ME had a means to prevent or "correct" autism via gene therapy, I'd balk at the idea of having it done. It'd be no different than Dorian's father wanting to futz with his mind to "correct" his homosexuality, because we're treating something as a defect when it's not. Furthermore such a procedure would fundamentally change the person I am and the person who'd leave that hospital room would not be me anymore... not really. Nor would David Archer be the same if he had it done to him.

 

Star Trek DS9 actually had an episode very similar to this, where we learn that Julian Bashir underwent illegal augmentation as a child. Despite his parents wanting only the best for him, he resents them for having "thrown away" their child away because he was slow to make a better one, considering himself not their son but their "creation".

 

My point is that just because ME medicine could potentially perform miracles and cure anything, doesn't mean that people would want or even feel the need to have them done, despite having the option available to them. Granted I could see many trans individuals seeking to take advantage of such good medical technology, but we still have to admit it'd be a bit unrealistic to suggest every single trans individual in the entire galaxy has transitioned.

They're transgender who want to become of the opposite gender. Gay people don't want to be anything different than what they are. I don't see a comparison here. It's not how society views transgender as something that need to change but how transgender wants to change themselves into a different gender to fit with the gender they'd prefer. You mean somehow a transgender man wants to become a man but still want to feel and look like a woman? We're getting into more niche territory at this point. If they don't want to do it, then it's not anyone's problems, to be honest. Regardless, it doesn't have anything to do with how the world should treat transgender people which is a non-issue, nor why I should care what their history is. In a non-judging society, I don't care what you are, you don't have to tell me, I don't need you to tell me, just like I don't need you to tell me what color of your skin is. Changing or not, it's still the same issue.

[Prince Enigmatic]

The entire bit in my quote. Having a quota of gay/trans/[insert demographic here] people in every mainstream Hollywood movie is not representative of reality in a country where LGBT people make up roughly 7% of the population (or roughly 22 million in a country with roughly 320 million). Or to use another example, that whole OscarsSoWhite debacle from the last Oscar season, where people were clamoring about how racist Hollywood is for not having black people in every movie ever made, even though black people only make up around 12% of the population here.

 

It may come as a shock, but Hollywood is not as racist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever other kind of phobic that people like to paint it as. They are aware of the demographics and cater to those demographics.

 

I wasn't saying that Hollywood is racist, homophobic, transphobic etc. though I think plenty can make a good case for Hollywood being those things, just maybe not as stark and bold as other people may be. And no where did I say that every single Hollywood film needs an equilibrium of LGBT and minorities in. Rather, we need a more equal catering to audience and demographic types, since that is not happening.

 

And I honestly don't think that they cater to minorities in the same way, regardless of demographics

By that logic, the majority of the US's population must be entirely straight white males, because that demographic is continuously the one that Hollywood caters for. 

 

I'm also going to say that in representation, the industry is outdated as an industry not just because of the films not representing enough minority groups, but also because most of the high ranking officials in the industry are straight white men, which is probably why most of the films made by Hollywood are catered to that audience.

 

With the Oscars, the only category we ever see women usually appear in are the acting or wardrobe ones, seldom do we see women represented in the directing or cinematography categories equally.

 

Hollywood is not representative enough of society the way it is today, in my honest opinion. 

[straykat]

I was merely commenting on how I saw both sides of the argument for how the universe of Mass Effect, universally, would treat and/or accept LGBT issues and how it handled discrimination etc. in regards to characters that we've seen before like Steve.

 

I'm well aware that Mass Effect isn't a vehicle for my own idealism, I was saying that if it were to depict a "utopia", (which I quoted from someone else, I didn't use that term to describe it), then I wouldn't have a problem with it, mainly because that way a portion of the writing wouldn't be having to tackle LGBT issues hundreds of years in the future. I'd personally much rather there be these characters and they are handled and treated like Steve was. 

 

I'm not sure which part I worded in my other post confused you into thinking I strictly wanted a utopia of sorts, i was establishing how i could see how both cases would work in the series, based on my own opinion.

 

Well, I apologize if you were using someone else's words then. I just jumped in the thread.. I read it when it began, but was picking up here.

[SnakeCode]

I thought the whole #oscarssowhite controversy was about the lack of black actors being nominated for awards? Which I never understood because they were insulting the skill of black actors by saying the awards which are pretty much a meritocracy are racist. Saying there has to be a black nominee every year is pretty much an admittance that they don't think can't get a nomination on merit.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Well, I apologize if you were using someone else's words then. I just jumped in the thread.. I read it when it began, but was picking up here.

 

All good.

 

I have trouble keeping up sometimes. Earlier today this was just three pages, I come back, and its jumped to nine, though thankfully unlike other threads it hasn't completely gone off topic yet...

[Dean_the_Young]

I stop short of saying what is or isn't acceptable in what is supposed to be a mature work of fiction. Just that it probably wouldn't gel with BioWare's reputation as striving to be positively inclusive of various lgbt spectrum people. That is, I don't think that is the sort of inclusion a trans person would necessarily appreciate. Only because it is a particularly pernicious stereotype- as above mentioned, trans people are killed for this sort of thing.

 

Trans people are killed for rejecting a relationship, being wounded in combat, and having their secret revealed when their life is saved?

 

Because let's be honest here- that's what I actually proposed. Not some scenario where the trans person misleads the player into a sexual relationship. If you're going to reject an idea for things it doesn't actually do, why should anyone put weight on your input?

 

Right now, I'm not seeing any way a surprise reveal could be 'respectful' by your criteria, because there being a surprise- and letting the player react to it- seems to be the disqualifier.

[Prince Enigmatic]

I thought the whole #oscarssowhite controversy was about the lack of black actors being nominated for awards? Which I never understood because they were insulting the skill of black actors by saying the awards which are pretty much a meritocracy are racist. Saying there has to be a black nominee every year is pretty much an admittance that they don't think can't get a nomination on merit.

 

Aside from a few people, it wasn't so much an issue that there was no one nominated, more that it showed that black actors aren't given the same opportunities or roles that white actors get, and thus aren't given equal opportunity to win awards. 

 

Recently, the only way for a black actor to get nominated or win an Oscar, is for them to appear in a film that is either about the civil rights movement, or slavery, going by those who have been nominated and won in previous award seasons. That in itself is reflective of the state Hollywood and the Academy is in.