769 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

I meant the series in its current state. I agree with you regarding ME1.

While I hope that MEA will recapture some of ME1 or take some lessons from DAI, I don't really expect that to happen.

I seem to be far more sanguine about the whole thing when I'm drunk.

It depends on what you want they take from DAI. The exploration parts (hopefully better) will be there. 

[Draining Dragon]

::pulls the "what is an RPG" debate alarm::
 
again.

[FKA_Servo]

I meant the series in its current state. I agree with you regarding ME1.

While I hope that MEA will recapture some of ME1 or take some lessons from DAI, I don't really expect that to happen.

I seem to be far more sanguine about the whole thing when I'm drunk.

It certainly can't hurt.

[Cyonan]

::pulls the "what is an RPG" debate alarm::

 

again.

 

We should probably just keep that alarm on at this point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It depends on what you want they take from DAI. The exploration parts (hopefully better) will be there.

I'd like to see the exploration, the expansive non-story content, and the more neutral delivery of voiced lines, as well as the improved paraphrases.

I'd also like to see multiple voice sets from which to choose, but I doubt we'll get that. But if we only get one, I'd like one resembling Sumalee's performance in DAI.

[SKAR]

Isnt this exactly like saying let's go back to silent movies?

[FKA_Servo]

Isnt this exactly like saying let's go back to silent movies?

 

Not really.

 

I would argue that it's simply a distinct, different, and equally valid approach. One is occasionally better than the other.

[SKAR]

Not really.

I would argue that it's simply a distinct, different, and equally valid approach. One is occasionally better than the other.

how is not talking occasionally better? They're just mute. They don't feel "alive".

[Sylvius the Mad]

how is not talking occasionally better? They're just mute. They don't feel "alive".

Not if you're just watching them, hoping they'll do all the work for you.

The silent movie comparison only works if you're a passive receiver of the game's content. Just like watching a movie, where you sit quietly and a story told to you.

But that's not how a lot of us play RPGs. We're trying to roleplay a character of our own construction (and a different one with each playthrough), and having the character already feeling alive does our job for us.

When roleplaying, we're not watching our character from outside, like we would when examining another person or watching a character in a film. Instead, we're inhabiting (and populating) that character's mind, experiencing his life from his perspective. We experience NPCs from the outside, but our experience of our character is fundamentally different.

Our relationship with our character should not resemble out relationship with other people; it shouldn't be a relationship at all. We should be our character.

When I speak, I don't need to listen to what I say in order to find out what I said. And nor should I when roleplaying. When I experience an emotion, I don't need to watch my behaviour to find out how I feel. And nor should I when roleplaying.

[FKA_Servo]

how is not talking occasionally better? They're just mute. They don't feel "alive".

 

Sure they do. That part is just sort of left up to you. The whole point of roleplaying, depending who you ask.

 

Spoiler

 

Speaking for myself alone, I enjoy both approaches, but it depends on the scenario and the game. Mass Effect (at least as we know it, and as I expect MEA will shake out), for example, I wouldn't want a silent protagonist. Shepard (and probably Ryder) are their own people, more or less. The enjoyment I get (apart from the gameplay itself, which I think is pretty fun in this case) is from directing the whole experience, and crafting an overarching story that I enjoy. Fallout on the other hand (and inevitably TES), a voiced protagonist ruins it. What I like to do in that sort of game is create a character concept and let him or her loose in the world and see what happens. A voiced (and strongly defined, for that matter) protagonist demolishes goddamn near all of the replayability that the older games had because it severely constricts my ability to create different characters.

 

I obviously wouldn't extend this to the other NPCs in either case. Honestly, the voice work for the companions is one of the things that makes them pop the most, particularly in a Bioware game. But they are their own people, and they can do whatever they want.

[Monk]

…

I'd also like to see multiple voice sets from which to choose, but I doubt we'll get that. But if we only get one, I'd like one resembling Sumalee's performance in DAI.

 

One of the strongest RPG aspects of Saints Row is multiple voice-sets and it really does ramp-up it's replayability by a lot. BW could easily rock two per gender and maybe a fifth, mumbling one as a nod towards silent protaganists.

[Pasquale1234]

Speaking for myself alone, I enjoy both approaches, but it depends on the scenario and the game. Mass Effect (at least as we know it, and as I expect MEA will shake out), for example, I wouldn't want a silent protagonist.

I wouldn't mind rolling with a non-voiced protagonist in MEU. I don't expect it'll ever happen, but I think it could be a great experience.

[JoltDealer]

Or, ME could just give us mod tools like Fallout did and then each of us could play the game however we want.
Yes, FO4 added a voice and some more cinematic conversations, but we can turn those off, so there's no cost to the player.

There's a good number of players who don't use mods, even on PC, but I see your point. Still, that's not what OP is asking for. Like I said, for Fallout, I'm open to things moving back to its old dialogue system, but Mass Effect isn't like that. Even Dragon Age, at this point, has had more games with a voiced protagonist than without and shouldn't be changed.

[Sylvius the Mad]

There's a good number of players who don't use mods, even on PC, but I see your point. Still, that's not what OP is asking for. Like I said, for Fallout, I'm open to things moving back to its old dialogue system, but Mass Effect isn't like that. Even Dragon Age, at this point, has had more games with a voiced protagonist than without and shouldn't be changed.

We should be given a silent option in every game.

I find ME more enjoyable to play if I just turn off the voices completely, but I would rather be able to hear the NPCs.

[JoltDealer]

We should be given a silent option in every game.
I find ME more enjoyable to play if I just turn off the voices completely, but I would rather be able to hear the NPCs.

Except, from a financial standpoint, that wouldn't make sense. You don't make the 60% of your recorded dialogue optional. Having the option of both is not viable. It has to be one or the other otherwise you are potentially wasting half of your voice over budget when someone chooses a silent protagonist.

[Cyonan]

Except, from a financial standpoint, that wouldn't make sense. You don't make the 60% of your recorded dialogue optional. Having the option of both is not viable. It has to be one or the other otherwise you are potentially wasting half of your voice over budget when someone chooses a silent protagonist.

 

It's almost the same as any other "give us a toggle for <insert desired feature here>". It's not an issue of the content not being experienced, but rather that the feature really just isn't worth the time to implement for what is believed a very small portion of the fanbase would actually use.

 

Anybody wanting to dispute the claim of "very small potion of the fanbase" would need to provide solid evidence that there are enough people who want said feature(and who would otherwise not be buying the game) for it to be worth BioWare's time and effort to include it.

 

Although in this case because they also use auto dialogue at times, it would mean needing to alter the way the game's cutscenes play out in order to support a silent protagonist option. The way they're currently making the game doesn't actually support it.

 

but I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to tell me about how cutscenes and auto dialogue are literally worse than Satan and probably kicked their dog or something.

[AlanC9]

Agreed. Whether voice content is heard by the player or not is irrelevant; the transaction has already happened. Bio doesn't care if you listen since they get paid anyway.

In a universe where games were modular, you could sell the voice pack separately. But there's no way to get there from here. Imagine the whining if Bio moved to that model.

[prosthetic soul]

We should definitely use a loud protagonist.

[Cyonan]

In a universe where games were modular, you could sell the voice pack separately. But there's no way to get there from here. Imagine the whining if Bio moved to that model.

 

This would be an interesting idea for selling a game, provided you could still buy the whole package for $60.

 

Although all of that assumes EA wouldn't just corrupt the whole system to try and exploit it for more money.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Except, from a financial standpoint, that wouldn't make sense. You don't make the 60% of your recorded dialogue optional. Having the option of both is not viable. It has to be one or the other otherwise you are potentially wasting half of your voice over budget when someone chooses a silent protagonist.

Once they've recorded the VO, it's a sunk cost. Whether it gets used is immaterial.

It doesn't benefit them to force me to experience something I dislike.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Agreed. Whether voice content is heard by the player or not is irrelevant; the transaction has already happened. Bio doesn't care if you listen since they get paid anyway.

In a universe where games were modular, you could sell the voice pack separately. But there's no way to get there from here. Imagine the whining if Bio moved to that model.

I'd happily pay extra for the silent option.

[Beerfish]

This topic fits nicely into the 'That ship has sailed' category for high profile games.  It has now become and expectation for the vast majority of customers.  Smaller games which can be just as good rpg wise will not have the voice protag I would guess but the A grade titles such as mass effect, DA, new IP will 100% for have it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's almost the same as any other "give us a toggle for <insert desired feature here>". It's not an issue of the content not being experienced, but rather that the feature really just isn't worth the time to implement for what is believed a very small portion of the fanbase would actually use.

Anybody wanting to dispute the claim of "very small potion of the fanbase" would need to provide solid evidence that there are enough people who want said feature(and who would otherwise not be buying the game) for it to be worth BioWare's time and effort to include it.

Although in this case because they also use auto dialogue at times, it would mean needing to alter the way the game's cutscenes play out in order to support a silent protagonist option. The way they're currently making the game doesn't actually support it.

but I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to tell me about how cutscenes and auto dialogue are literally worse than Satan and probably kicked their dog or something.

Regardless of the evils of cutscenes, I would rather experience them with the PC voice muted.

Would that be as good as having the game built around not having them? No. Would I prefer a full silent protagonist game with the dialogue written for that? Yes. But that's beside the point. The question here is, given that the game is written for the voices protagonist and riddled with non-interactive cutscenes, would I like that game more if I could mute the PC?

And the answer is yes.

If I do play MEA, and it doesn't have a mute PC option, I'm just going to turn off all of the voices.

[Sylvius the Mad]

This topic fits nicely into the 'That ship has sailed' category for high profile games. It has now become and expectation for the vast majority of customers. Smaller games which can be just as good rpg wise will not have the voice protag I would guess but the A grade titles such as mass effect, DA, new IP will 100% for have it.

And hopefully we'll be able to disable it.

[JoltDealer]

It's almost the same as any other "give us a toggle for <insert desired feature here>". It's not an issue of the content not being experienced, but rather that the feature really just isn't worth the time to implement for what is believed a very small portion of the fanbase would actually use.
 
Anybody wanting to dispute the claim of "very small potion of the fanbase" would need to provide solid evidence that there are enough people who want said feature(and who would otherwise not be buying the game) for it to be worth BioWare's time and effort to include it.

You're absolutely right, but the topic of making a voice protagonist optional is even more complicated. Player character dialogue takes up half of every conversation -- I'm aware I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm doing it in the interest of time. If Andromeda follows in Inquisition's footsteps, that's four voices, but let's be generous and just stick with the tradition two voices (one for each gender). If a silent protagonist option is available, that means that we don't hear 2/3 of the total amount of dialogue that's in the game. That's a huge waste of a games budget to even risk it, excluding the resources it would take to even make a toggle.