769 réponses à ce sujet

[Silvershroud]

Please, no.  I really prefer having a voiced character.

 

That said, isn't there a very simple solution to this argument?  Add an option to mute the player's character.  Then everyone can be happy.

[SKAR]

Please, no. I really prefer having a voiced character.

That said, isn't there a very simple solution to this argument? Add an option to mute the player's character. Then everyone can be happy.

Its almost like saying I'll take stick and stones into battle instead of taking something far superior.

[KirkyX]

Please, no.  I really prefer having a voiced character.

 

That said, isn't there a very simple solution to this argument?  Add an option to mute the player's character.  Then everyone can be happy.

Nah, the reason why people would want a silent protagonist - or, well, why I would, anyway - is so we could go back to having dialogue options like this, rather than the wheel system:

 

Just muting the protagonist wouldn't really do much good--I mean, you could do whatever line reads you wanted, but it wouldn't be anything like having an actual old-school silent protagonist.

 

Like I said, I don't think it'd really suit Mass Effect, but a big part of the reason why I'm so excited about Torment: Tides of Numenara is that it's going all-in on this style of dialogue/storytelling, and I do miss it in Dragon Age, much as I came to love snarky Hawke.

[Shinobu]

I love the Warden as much as the next person, but no.

[correctamundo]

What

 

Nah, the reason why people would want a silent protagonist - or, well, why I would, anyway - is so we could go back to having dialogue options like this, rather than the wheel system:

 

Just muting the protagonist wouldn't really do much good--I mean, you could do whatever line reads you wanted, but it wouldn't be anything like having an actual old-school silent protagonist.

 

Like I said, I don't think it'd really suit Mass Effect, but a big part of the reason why I'm so excited about Torment: Tides of Numenara is that it's going all-in on this style of dialogue/storytelling, and I do miss it in Dragon Age, much as I came to love snarky Hawke.

 

So you get six choices as a list instead of six choices in a ring? It is superior in what way? And what does voice have to do with it?

[KirkyX]

Hey man, it's just something I enjoy. Honestly never really put much thought into why.

 

I suppose the lack of a voice means I can just have my character read the lines - in my head - in whichever tone I want, which helps. And I like that you're reading exactly what you're saying, rather than having little snippets that your character then interprets into longer sentences.

 

Beyond that, I dunno, it just feels like there's generally more variety--or, at least, like I'm not just choosing between three different, clearly delineated 'tones' of response, with some questions on the side?

 

Eh, I like dialogue wheels too - I wouldn't want Mass Effect to change - but there's something special to me about a silent protagonist and a list of dialogue options. I think it's more than just nostalgia, too, though like I said, I've never really thought about why l like it. It might just feel more natural to me.

[correctamundo]

Ok, fair enough. =) I can do silent but prefer voiced by far.

[Sifr]

Dead Space at least justified why it had a silent protagonist in the first game, because Isaac was completely on his own and we only got to know his rather sardonic sense of humour from the way his journal entries were written. When it came to the second and third games where he was now interacting with other people, having him remain a Heroic Mine like Gordon Freeman just wasn't feasible.

[Sanunes]

Please, no.  I really prefer having a voiced character.

 

That said, isn't there a very simple solution to this argument?  Add an option to mute the player's character.  Then everyone can be happy.

 

I can't remember which writer, but one of them said that writing between a voiced and silent protagonist is different and in many ways it was liking writing their dialogue twice.

[Mr_Corbeau]

The whole silent protagonist thing is just another in a loooooong line of examples that RPG players are completely and wholly unable to to accept any sort of progress in their industry.

It isn't like those seven dialogue options for a non- voiced protagonist usually net you anymore that two or three different responses, so I'm all for cutting the bullshit and having three dialogue options with three unique responses.

And I personally think those who go "But now I can't ROLEPLAY!!!!" are full of ****.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I couldn't agree more. If nothing else, let us mute the protagonist so we don't have to hear the voice.

And I don’t just mean let us mute all the voices (because we can already do that). I want to mute just the protagonist and then disable the subtitles so that I no longer have to deal with how bad the paraphrases are. I can just treat the paraphrases like they are full-text options (that's how I select them, anyway, and I can't see any other way to do it) and never know what the actual line says.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The whole silent protagonist thing is just another in a loooooong line of examples that RPG players are completely and wholly unable to to accept any sort of progress in their industry.

It isn't like those seven dialogue options for a non- voiced protagonist usually net you anymore that two or three different responses, so I'm all for cutting the bullshit and having three dialogue options with three unique responses.

And I personally think those who go "But now I can't ROLEPLAY!!!!" are full of ****.

It's not about the NPC reaction. The NPC reaction is irrelevant.

What matters is what we can get our character to say, and how (with the silent protagonist we have full control over that), and why.

With the voice+paraphrase, we can't tell what we're choosing, we can't decide how it's delivered, and any mental state we think the character mught have can be undone by the resulting scene.

The voiced protagonist is a failure. I will accept it only when it allows exactly as much control over our characters as the silent protagonist did.

[Sylvius the Mad]

What


So you get six choices as a list instead of six choices in a ring? It is superior in what way? And what does voice have to do with it?

It matters whether we can see the full text, and it matters that we get to decide how the line is said.

[Ascari]

That would be very awkward if you're romancing someone.

[78stonewobble]

I couldn't agree more. If nothing else, let us mute the protagonist so we don't have to hear the voice.

And I don’t just mean let us mute all the voices (because we can already do that). I want to mute just the protagonist and then disable the subtitles so that I no longer have to deal with how bad the paraphrases are. I can just treat the paraphrases like they are full-text options (that's how I select them, anyway, and I can't see any other way to do it) and never know what the actual line says.

 

I'm not opposed to that option, but you can do that allready... Just ignore what the protagonist says. 

 

 

It's not about the NPC reaction. The NPC reaction is irrelevant.

What matters is what we can get our character to say, and how (with the silent protagonist we have full control over that), and why.

With the voice+paraphrase, we can't tell what we're choosing, we can't decide how it's delivered, and any mental state we think the character mught have can be undone by the resulting scene.

The voiced protagonist is a failure. I will accept it only when it allows exactly as much control over our characters as the silent protagonist did.

 

You don't get that even with full text options and that control is an illusion. 

 

What you're asking for is a system that lets us type or say things directly as the protagonist and have the game react dynamically to it and that's far in the future still. 

[Wynterdust]

Why are people so insistant on wanting to remain in dark ages and so against progress? We've moved on from silent protagonists. And as many have pointed out, what difference did all those options actually make compared to the dialogue wheel? None.

The argument about being able to select the line and the tone in which it is said in in your head is flawed. No matter how you do it in your head, the NPC's response will dictate the tone in each choice. AND you're still limited to what the protagonist actually says. The only thing that a silent protagonist brings these days is awkwardness in warm scenes and kills the atmosphere in epic scenes. Imagine if Shepard was silent during the action sequences...And remember how awkward the DA:O romance scenes were.

Silent protagonists only work if the entire cast is silent like in the old FF games.

Sorry but I'd rather take three choices/three responses with some actual emotion in their voice over a couple more choices/still only three at most responses with absolutely zero emotion from the protagonist.

[Eelectrica]

What

 

 

So you get six choices as a list instead of six choices in a ring? It is superior in what way? And what does voice have to do with it?

More dialogue choices. Voiced protag severely limits the word count. Torment:TON has now hit 1.2 million words.

 

Look at all the stat based dialogue choices in games such as Pillars of Eternity. More chance to role play a character. My Bleak Walker Paladin play through was different than my Ranger play through due to the different choices presented and varied ways to resolve conflict. Many conflicts could be resolved peacefully. 

[Eelectrica]

Why are people so insistant on wanting to remain in dark ages and so against progress? We've moved on from silent protagonists. And as many have pointed out, what difference did all those options actually make compared to the dialogue wheel? None.

The argument about being able to select the line and the tone in which it is said in in your head is flawed. No matter how you do it in your head, the NPC's response will dictate the tone in each choice. AND you're still limited to what the protagonist actually says. The only thing that a silent protagonist brings these days is awkwardness in warm scenes and kills the atmosphere in epic scenes. Imagine if Shepard was silent during the action sequences...And remember how awkward the DA:O romance scenes were.

Silent protagonists only work if the entire cast is silent like in the old FF games.

Sorry but I'd rather take three choices/three responses with some actual emotion in their voice over a couple more choices/still only three at most responses with absolutely zero emotion from the protagonist.

Because it's not 'dark ages' it's about choice. Silent protags if done right give the player more dialogue choices.

Granted I've seen the silent protag done horribly as well such as the recent Shadows of Dragonspear where quite often we were given several 'choices' all of them pretty much saying the same thing only worded slightly different. But the writers at Beamdog are terrible, so there's that.

[Eelectrica]

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No voice = not a Mass Effect game. It's that simple.

At the end of the day it is what it is. ME has always had the voiced protag and this thread ain't changing that. Especially as the story has been written already, and quite possibly VA's cast already, and perhaps even recorded.

[Eelectrica]

-Remove voiced protagonist

-Remove cinematics

-Make Mass Effect Turn based.

 

Would probably have more reactive gameplay and vastly better decision trees. Would be a tradeoff I am willing to make

So X-Com 2 as an RPG then. Sign me up.

[Vortex13]

So X-Com 2 as an RPG then. Sign me up.

 

 

Everything's better with X-COM 2

[Ahriman]

Such requests for some isometric RPGs are totally viable, but for ME? It's diamond clear troll thread. And it has 5 pages. BSN, please.

[Eleonora]

I wouldn't be happy with a mute protagonist. I could live with a mute pc in the next DA, but in ME? No thanks.

 

Such requests for some isometric RPGs are totally viable, but for ME? It's diamond clear troll thread. And it has 5 pages. BSN, please.

 

Thankfully, those 5 pages are mostly filled by people saying no.

[AlanC9]

Beyond that, I dunno, it just feels like there's generally more variety--or, at least, like I'm not just choosing between three different, clearly delineated 'tones' of response, with some questions on the side?

Note that the writers never thought of the lines this way. They've always written with an implicit tone for the PC's lines in mind, which is what the NPCs respond to. And really, how else could it work?

[AtreiyaN7]

No, because this idea is completely stupid after we've had multiple voiced protagonists. Gee, why don't we go back to the days of steam locomotives or horse-drawn carriages while we're at it? *rolleyes + massive sarcasm*