So, you don't think there is a huge issue with complexity by allowing the player so many choices and also establishing canon? I am just guessing here as I've never had to write an epic spanning three huge games that flows with the choices we have been offered.
Personally, I don't think it's a huge issue. It would be difficult to implement, to be sure, but a lot of that can be reduced down to tying various branches into a shared outcome. One quick example. You may have let Sten die in Origins, or never found his sword, or found it and destroyed it. Yet most people probably gave his sword back to him, which means he will become Arishok. So hire Mark Hildreth to play the role of that character again, and simply transpose his voice onto a new character for those who didn't help Sten. So, different characters, same voice. And they could even make them diverge for certain scenarios if they wanted.
A more complex example, Avernus's fate. Assuming we visit Weisshaupt in DA4, then if Avernus is alive and researching ethically, then have the First Warden be somewhat knowledgeable about certain plots in DA4. If Avernus is researching unethically, then the First Warden is even more knowledgeable and sure of what the Wardens must do, but also he is more burdened with keeping the Wardens loyal after reports from Ferelden about the Wardens practicing abominable blood magic. Or maybe the research results are the same either way, but unethical research adds the element of further dissension in the ranks. Maybe it makes it more difficult for the Hero of Ferelden to convince the Wardens on the best course of action when the Hero returns. Combine this with the Hero's choice of having someone slay the Archdemon, or if the Dark Ritual was performed. Also, is the Hero King/Queen? If so, how can they argue against the Wardens being political? Or if the Hero doesn't consider him or her self as being part of the Wardens, then what gives them the right to interfere now?
And what about the Architect, and whether he was allied with or slain? What news from him? And do the Wardens trust him now that it was seen what Corypheus could do?
Add to this Hawke's choice of siding with Larius or Jenaka, and what Corypheus was able to do through either one of them when he escaped. Maybe as Larius Cory was only able to work with Bianca on where to find the red lyrium, but as Jenaka he was able to use her position and magic to influence more Wardens. It was stated somewhere that the Wardens who were with Jenaka were never heard from again. Is Hawke's sibling a Grey Warden? Was Anders spared? So this might affect Hawke's influence with the Weisshaupt Wardens. That's if Hawke is even the one who survives. It could be Alistair, Stroud, or Loghain, who each have their own levels of influence and their own flaws. We also can't forget that the Orlesian Warden could be in this if the Hero made the Ultimate Sacrifice.
Also add the Inquisitor's choice of either welcoming the Wardens' help or exiling them from Orlais, and if those Wardens died on those Chore Table operations or not. If they helped, then the (Ex)Inquisitor's voice may be more influential. If not, the (x)In might be rejected and shunned.
Let's also not forget Thom Rainier, and if he became a Warden or not, and if so, if he personally fought Corypheus or not. All this could play a part in how influential he is.
So tally this all up and what you get is one big storyline about the Wardens and if they should be practicing bloodmagic, or if they should be able to conscript whoever they want, or if they should be political, or if they should disband, or if the senior leadership has been lying to them, or their various operating practices, their dishonorable actions at various points in history, their vulnerability to any possible magisters or even mages who can mimic their powers, etc. And what way each character or faction of the Wardens tip will depend on all of these facts being accounted for.
I could even see a scene where the Grey Wardens are all gathered together in a great hall, arguing over these issues through their chosen figureheads while the First Warden sits on a throne trying to rub the tension from his brow.
It would be like the Circles of Magi when they rebelled. The DA4 character, along with the (x)In, would try to get the Wardens to cooperate, while Hawkalistrogain argues for reforms or disbandment. Handling the situation the wrong way would cause a massive battle in the many halls of Weisshaupt, and the end result would be a minimal and less effective group of Wardens.
Now, is this doable? I think so. You just have to find variables that are similar enough and tie them into a common outcome. Then have multiple outcomes to account for all the variables. Like...
The Hero is a Cousland;
The Hero is King;
Loghain spared;
Loghain slayed the Archdemon;
Avernus is doing ethical research;
The Hero saved Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep;
Established the Silver Order;
Protected the people;
Killed the Architect;
Hawke sided with Larius to kill Corypheus;
Encouraged Varric to toss red lyrium;
Hawke's sibling not a Grey Warden;
Anders was executed;
Hawke was Viscount/ess;
Inquisitor sided with templars;
Used Warden treaties;
Convinced Wardens to back down;
Stroud stayed behind;
Allied with Grey Wardens;
Commanded Wardens to successfully protect Orlais on Chore Table;
Collected Warden artifacts;
Listened to Bianca's findings on red lyrium;
Rainier fought Corypheus;
Sent Rainier to Grey Wardens;
Plus the alternate options to these choices, and anything else I may have missed. Then you assign positives or negatives to each action on a variety of categories, such as Trustworthiness of the Grey Warden Order, Knowledge obtained by the Order, Power and Influence the Order wields, whether the Order should be Political or not, or whether the Order should be researching the taint and other magical things. Then you also assign credibility to the Hero, Champion, or (ex)Inquisitor. The credibility of each would affect how compelling each is to each cause.
In the end you calculate it all out, as well as what dialogue options you picked to sway things in either direction, and you have your outcomes. The Order disbands or remains, researches dangerous magics or leaves it up to others, is political or serves only the people, seeks only noble recruits or continues allowing criminals to join, adopts oversight or remains independent, etc.
These separate issues would then combine to form unique outcomes for various players, and these states would carry over in DA5 and beyond. It would just be a matter of worldstate origins. The Keep would organize all of it.
Is it confusing and difficult? Sure. Will BioWare put in the effort to make it work? I doubt it. More likely they will reduce it to two choices; Disband the Wardens or Reform the Wardens. Then no matter what you pick, the Wardens who disagree will just form a new order of Wardens, so it's like you picked the Reform option either way.
I think they'll do this with the Inquisition as well. If you disbanded, those who liked the Inquisition will go to the Chantry. If you merged back into the Chantry, then most people left except those who want to serve the Chantry. The only difference is what that group of people is called. The (ex)Inquisitor is going off with his own small group to Tevinter regardless.
I know that repeatedly fans of Bioware have railed against Bioware for giving simply the illusion of choice but it makes sense to a degree that they do this given how difficult it would be to write completely different endings for each game to the degree that carrying over characters to another game would be almost impossible with people being dead, people born or not born, people romanced or not or broken up with you name it.
Yes, but BioWare should at least strive for more choice and more customization. Otherwise they have no business making RPGs. Should every choice have its own unique outcome? Of course not. There would be too many variations to account for. But each choice could influence the outcome into one of several different possibilities. For example...
28 choices -> affect the outcomes of -> 7 scenarios, with roughly 4 choices affecting 1 scenario each. Then of those 7 scenarios, only 4 will actually be referenced in the next game with the other three not being relevant.
Like if the Wardens decided to recruit only the most noble of people, this means a future game refers to the Order having less recruits, but of higher skill and caliber.
Or if the Order chooses to conduct its own magical research or not, it makes no difference since the task is left to the Circles otherwise. So this wouldn't really matter. But perhaps in the next game or game after that, if the Wardens are left to conduct their own research you get an extra storyline with a benefit to the player character. If not, then the story takes you to a Circle tower where a lesser benefit is bestowed.
How hard is it to write a "moving" story that flexes and breathes with a persons choices SO MUCH that an entire universe shift as each change is made or not made. Just food for thought. I'm certainly no expert but I read a lot of fiction and non fiction and have been an avid reader of books my entire life and I would deem this a sufficient challenge for any good writer.
I understand what you mean. Any of the variables proposed would not shift the main storyline into something different. It would just mean that a past element would show up differently in a new game. Like if in DA4 you decide the fate of the Warden Order, then it just means in DA5 they either are around to led assistance in the fight against the Qunari or they aren't. And if not, then the casualties are higher on your side. It won't be something like, the Wardens no longer exist, and so now the Sixth Blight will consume the world, game over. No, in that case the Joining ritual will be known, perhaps even the Dark Ritual, and those will be used by the various nations to defeat the Blight instead of the Wardens being present to do this for those nations.
I do not require my video game plots to be amazingly original but I just want satisfaction- of course we all want that amazing immersion and character development and plot development but I think they've done a fairly good job with the choices+ circumstances later down the line to the best of their ability.
I was satisfied with Inquisition, but Trespasser was awful, and if that is any indication of Weekes' writing ability now that he's in the driver's seat then I have to tell you I'm not confident about DA4.
Its funny after I posted this, I was reading your Thread about the inconsistencies/Error on Bioware use of the title Prince-Consort and King-Consort for a Warden King. And I gotta say I agree with you 100%, a MWarden is a King not a consort. Its a real shame DA Devs aren't engage in the Forums like say for the Forums for Crusader Kings 2...SMH, At the very least they could clearfiy something up
Thank you, and I agree, the devs should be reading these things and communicating with their fanbase.
I've notice in some peoples post they mention that it seemed that Cailan or if Alistair becomes King, they seem to be the last Theirin Kings. I know in real life dynasty's rise and fall, but is Bioware trying to give hints that Ferelden Kingship is gonna be past on to a new dynasty, and that the Theirins are done?
Also was King Arland, the King who kick the Wardens outta Ferelden 400yrs ago, a Theirin and has Ferelden elected any other Kings besides a Theirin?? I ask because I remember Sophia Dryden wasn't a Theirin, and yet the people wanted her over Arland, but yet he got the Throne??
(I didn't mention Meghren because he wasn't elected, obviously, he was put there when the Orlais invaded)
I ask these question because like I said in my OP, I was reReading The Stolen Throne, and I feel like if I don't put Alistair on the Throne all with Maric and his friend and allys did was for nothing. I guess im just trying to get some justfication on my Warden choosing to be King.I thought by the time DAI came out he and Anora would have had a child and the succession woud be ok(My Warden romanced Morrigan, but didn't go with her in WH)
Side Question: If a HMWarden King doesn't go with Morrigan throught the Eluvian in Witch Hunt, when does he leave Anora to go look for the Calling??
It looks like the Therin bloodline is done, yes. Kieran might not even exist depending on player choice. So BioWare can't even use him as a last chance to save the bloodline.
Arland was a Therin, but of a side branch. He was favored mainly because of his name, and also because the banns thought they could easily control him. I figured this once for the King Cousland debate. I think the Therin who died had no heirs, so the candidates for succession were sought in the King's siblings' children. So maybe his brother had Arland, and they were Therins because they were males, and his sister had Sophia who were Drydens because the sister married a Dryden, which changed her name from Therin to Dryden. Arland and Sophia's respective Therin parent was likely dead, which is why the banns did not consider either of them to rule.
As for when the Hero King left his Queen, I estimate about 9:38 or so. Hawke finds a letter from the Hero passing on Avernus' research notes to the First Warden. I don't remember what act this was though. But the Hero is gone a few years before Inquisition starts. There's a codex (on the Fifth Blight I think) stating that Anora is visibly troubled by the Hero's absence, and I think it dates it as being a few years. The Hero's codex will also state that he disappeared
several years ago, which is between 3 and 9. The year was 9:41, so that is anywhere between 9:32 and 9:38. Origins ends in 9:31. Awakening takes place at least six months after Origins. Witch Hunt I thought took place in 9:34, as I seem to remember reading that it was 2 years after Awakening. Golems of Amgarrack was before Witch Hunt.
No, he's not. Let me help you there. MCousland is a Prince-consort (or King-consort, if you will) because he gained his crown through marriage to Anora, not the other way around. The Landsmeet voted Anora to be queen to rule in her own right (or queen regnant), and MCousland gained the throne through marriage to her.
This isn't the place for that discussion, but you're wrong. Anora was elected at the same instant as the Cousland was, in the same declaration, by the one person who was trusted to make that call, the Cousland himself. He declared joint rule, and so that is the canon.
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