84 réponses à ce sujet

[Rugaru]

Jinadan wrote...

I find it interesting that Connor also refers to the main character as "it" when possessed by the desire demon in Redcliff Castle - inferring that shale could be a possessed golem, though I doubt it, was just an amusing observation.

Umm technically golems are possessed....a soul in a body that is not its own is possession.

[Jinadan]

Couldar wrote...

Jinadan wrote...

I find it interesting that Connor also refers to the main character as "it" when possessed by the desire demon in Redcliff Castle - inferring that shale could be a possessed golem, though I doubt it, was just an amusing observation.

Umm technically golems are possessed....a soul in a body that is not its own is possession.

I was inferring that a demon was possessing the possessed golem. Hence the "it" references I gave.

[Rugaru]

Yes but Shale's reason for calling you it is just because of her lumping all fleshies together and not wanting to differentiate between people.

[Suron]

Averna Bagenholt wrote...

gsmithcat wrote...

I found this on the Dragon Age Wiki:

If Shale is a party member when the Warden arrives at the Anvil of the Void it is revealed that Shale was once a female dwarf known as Shayle and she belonged to the House of Cadash. She was one of the first volunteers to become a golem. After becoming a golem, she stayed with Caridin until she was sent away out of mercy.

It's a wiki page so it holds no weight to the debate.

even though..in this case..it's exactly right..as CONFIRMED by PLAYING THE GAME...as in..it's spoken..and explained..EXACTLY THUS..IN THE GAME

there IS no debate...Shale..was a female Dwarf named Shayle Cadash.....Caridan says so...Shale eventually remembers bits and pieces to confirm it...the wall of writings in the anvil area SHOWS her....her personal quest confirms it...

"debating" whether or not shale is a woman comes down to exactly what I said...as a GOLEM..Shale technically has no "sex"..HOWEVER "it's" SPIRIT/SOUL are female..and "it" was in FACT a FEMALE dwarf before becoming a Golem

idiot.

Modifié par Suron, 26 novembre 2009 - 03:10 .

[Rugaru]

Well considering in one of the epilogues, Shale is reverted to flesh and is STILL a female dwarf I would say that while the stone has no gender Shale herself is female.

[Rugaru]

Epilogue as in ending. She was a female dwarf before being a golem and she is a female dwarf after being a golem.

[ExistsAlready]

Shale is female. The lust for shinies transcends such fleshy nonsense as "organs" and "genitals". She's also very catty, for a statue.

[Count Viceroy]

Do these crystals make me look wide? I think I'm wide enough as it is.

[Drake Sigar]

Averna Bagenholt wrote...

Couldar wrote...

Yes but Shale's reason for calling you it is just because of her lumping all fleshies together and not wanting to differentiate between people.

In all it's glory a golem/homonculi is a doll. You can make the doll look like a man but it isn't a man. You can make it look and feel like a woman but if you have sex with it you wouldn't call it a woman now would you? or atleast I think you should see someone if you would.

Also regarding the whole thing of 'It was a female before being made a  golem' well when I went to the toilet this morning that used to be food but I wouldn't still call it food.

It sounds to me like you simply don't want to admit that Shale is or was a woman. We're sticking to what we know here. As far as I'm aware, the argument that constructs cannot have a gender lacks any real substance and is down to your personal interpretation. In other words, the in-game evidence is solid, your personal interpretation is not.
Use your incredibly flawed bodily function and sexual analogies all you want, it won't change a thing.

[Count Viceroy]

The fact that Caridin, the master of golems and being one himself refers to shale as a woman should settle any doubt.

[Rovay]

Well now, who would've thought that golem's gender would turn into such a heated debate...

[Rugaru]

@Rovay, especially since it is so conclusively answered in the game.

[Count Viceroy]

You can turn anything into one with enough 'fuel' as it were.

[Neil Decurio]

I see Shale as a female, but I often refer to it as him. (Who wants to say, "I see what you did there!"?)

[Rugaru]

She was a SHE before she was a golem, she was a SHE after she was a golem. So try as you want but, she remained a she throughout the whole thing. In this game souls are not intangible they are "real" they can go into and out of the fade and still retain who they are. They can transfer mediums and still they are who they are.

[Drake Sigar]

Exterior appearances are largely irrelevant. I have to believe there is more to being female than sexual organs. On it's own Shale is nothing more than a construct, an object built for a purpose. Imbued with a living soul it becomes a living thing. Like Couldar said, souls retain who they are in this game.

[Rivie]

Couldar wrote...

@Rovay, especially since it is so conclusively answered in the game.

You'd think so, but people are surprisingly antagonistic about the sex/gender of characters sometimes.

To give an off-topic example, there are still people who deny that Zelda and Sheik are the same person, even though it is blatantly revealed to be so in Ocarina of Time.

I don't get it either, but there ya go.

Just makes it even messier that we now get to discuss how gender has nothing to do with sexual organs.  I believe it doesn't, but some folks are pretty adamant about it having everything to do with it.

Modifié par Rivie, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:08 .