52 réponses à ce sujet

[PiKey]

May be the situation with the Reapers and the endings is easier? May be the Reapers cannot be defeated at all? They reaped many civilizations in other cycles. More advanced civilizations, than in our cycle. But the reaping can be stopped. The key to understanding the Reapers (and how to stop the reaping) may be in DLC Leviathan.

Authors (in DLC Leviathan) said that the purpose of the Reapers is the preservation and evolution of life in the galaxy. The Reapers (according to Leviathans) doing their job very well. The motivation of the Reapers is considerably more complex than the resolution of the conflict of organics and synthetics. Leviathans think that the Reapers conduct an experiment in the area of the evolution of civilizations in the galaxy. Global objective of the Reapers cannot understand even the Leviathans.

The Reapers control and accelerate the technological component of the evolution of civilizations. With the help of mass relays and the Citadel they bring races together and watching the result of their communication.

The games of the series tells the story of some cycles. Leviathans were the dominant race at the start of cycles. Other races - in fact slaves. At the time of Protheans situation was very similar. (And the creation of synthetics was completely prohibited.) In the cycle before Protheans also dominated only one race. The Reapers stopped all that cycles. May be the way of evolution in that cycles did not corresponded to their criteria of proper evolution?

Do you want to live as a slave of Leviathans? Alternatively, in subordination of Protean? This is not happening thanks to the Reapers. Perhaps without them the civilization of the Leviathans finally degenerated and died. (The creation of Catalist shows that the Leviathans have lost contact with reality). Their slaves could die with them. Alternatively, slave races could reproduce wrong development model, and would have died anyway. Maybe that is why the Reapers started the cycles?

Our cycle… No one race dominates. Main developed races cooperate with each other. Moreover, main races solve problems together, prevent or solve conflicts between other races. Representatives of different races working successfully as a team in order to protect life in the galaxy. Shepard is a symbol of this desire. Leviathans noted that our cycle is different from previous ones. Maybe thanks that? The evolution of life in the galaxy during our cycle goes in another way than in the past.

If the activity of the Reapers - an experiment in evolution, there is only one real way to stop the cycle. It is necessary to achieve the parameters of evolution, which the Reapers seek in the experiment, begun many cycles ago.

Even the construction of Crucible may be just a test of the ability of all races of the Galaxy to work together. Maybe one race cannot build the device. Independently of the level of development. Crucible technology is closely linked with technology of the Reapers. So maybe the scheme of Crucible is their work? Something like puzzles, test...

In the Leviathan DLC the authors showed, that the Leviathans can perforate into the mind of human, and build into it another reality (plans of rooms and images of people). Reapers should also have such abilities. And the scenes on the Citadel (dialogs with Illusive Man and Catalyst) can be just another test. The Reapers wanted to make sure that the results of evolution satisfy to their criteria of proper evolution (the preservation of life and evolution in the right direction). Using Shepard as a symbol of the cycle. If everything is correct, the Reapers stop reaping.

From this point of view:

"Control" - the human gets control of the greatest power in the galaxy. He should solve the problem, which is above his understanding. It is unreal. Rather, this is a test of human (as a representative of the cycle) on the desire to obtain unlimited power, if possible... And to repeat the fate of Leviathan, Protean, and other dominant races of previous cycles. Choosing “Control” the player chooses to continue the reaping.

"Synthesis" – refusal of one’s own way of evolution. Moreover, "Synthesis" is the denial of the life in the usual sense (Protection of organic life is main purpose of the Reapers). The desire to get everything from the evolution at once. It is not consistent the goals of the Reapers. The reaping is continue.

"Refusal" – refusal of testing the legal capacity. No comments. The reaping is continue.

"Destruction" - Shepard (and the player) choose the preservation of life of all organics, and the preservation of the way of evolution, different from other cycles. The Reapers have same goals. If Shepard has collected enough resources and have joined efforts of all races - he passed the test.

All the other stories about the wonderful consequences of any choice - just beautiful pictures. Especially for time, when the Reapers prepare from the bodies of Shepard, the Normandy team, people and other races a nutritious mass for the next Reapers.

Only with a breath of Shepard at the end of the "Destruction" ending (in the ruins of London) the reaping is stopping. Otherwise, this fragment is makes no sense.

[AlanC9]

Just what we needed.... another flavor of IT.

[PiKey]

I think that Indoctrination Theory is not correct. The Reapers were not trying to control Shepard. They were interested in him as in individual.

Shepard was captured by the Reapers (in DLC Arrival) after the destruction of the Collectors Base. The Reapers knew him very good at that moment. Shepard was deprived of senses for 2 days. He was not indoctrinated or killed. What was done with him all this time? Most likely, nothing. The reapers could keep him insensible as long as necessary. Could turn his brain to jelly. But they didn't. Then Shepard just woke up. Reapers returned him weapons and equipment. And then Reapers watched as Shepard decides to sacrifice 300 thousand living beings for the salvation of billions.

Indoctrination Theory does not answer the question about the possible "correct" ending of the game. It says BioWare: take a theory and do the normal final magical battle. And the final kiss on a rainbow background with lots of blue kids. The whole story of the game says that this is impossible. You can defeat one Reaper. But not the whole Armada. Crucible? How can you defeat the Reapers with a weapon, which can use only the Reapers?

From whole IT I take into consideration only the ability to create in the mind of Shepard another reality to facilitate communication. And it's not my imagination. This capability has been confirmed in the DLC Leviathan.

I think that Shepard was chosen by the Reapers for testing legal capacity of our cycle. This is not Indoctrination Theory. It is rather Evolutionary test theory, or just Test theory.

What are its advantages? If it is correct, the game is won only in the ending with a breath. And that is right. Any choice cannot be as good, as other (with the difference in several details). Not in the case with the Reapers.

Magical combat is not required. Shepard, the Normandy team, EDI, Geth, all other races (and may be even Anderson) are alive. And The Reapers. They just stop the reaping and continue to supervise our cycle, promising to return if something goes wrong. Or just be back after one thousand years. To see how things were going.

This ending is perfectly explains why humanity and other races want to colonize Andromeda (new house for humanity). Life in the Galaxy, that is actually the Reapers laboratory for the study of the evolution is not very nice. But only if Reapers exist after Mass Effect 3.

Blue kids Test Theory also does not exclude...

[rossler]

There is no correct ending to the game.

[PiKey]

There is no correct ending to the game.

I think, that it exists. But we can see only the first 15 seconds of it.

[rossler]

The thing about Mass Effect is that it has never told the player what they did was right or wrong.

[PiKey]

I hope BioWare just keep the intrigue . Perhaps, the correct ending is a prologue of a new game...

[rossler]

They've said multiple times that there is no canon ending, there is no optimal ending, etc, etc. For some reason people keep asking them to declare one.

 

The player, not Bioware decides what is canon. They've said that too.

[themikefest]

Shepard was captured by the Reapers (in DLC Arrival) after the destruction of the Collectors Base.

The dlc can be completed before the suicide mission
 

Shepard was deprived of senses for several days.

Shepard was unconscious for only 48 hours. 2 days not several unless you mean 2 is several

[PiKey]

They've said multiple times that there is no canon ending, there is no optimal ending, etc, etc. For some reason people keep asking them to declare one.

 

The player, not Bioware decides what is canon. They've said that too.

 

They just don't want to set any limits.

They will have to choose the state of the galaxy at the start of the next game. And it's part of the Canon.

[PiKey]

The dlc can be completed before the suicide mission
 

Shepard was unconscious for only 48 hours. 2 days not several unless you mean 2 is several

 

It doesn't change anything. He was known to the Reapers.

 

It doesn't change anything. He was not indoctrinated or killed.

[themikefest]

It doesn't change anything. He was known to the Reapers.

So why say Shepard is captured after the base is destroyed when Shepard can be captured before the base is destroyed as well?
 

It doesn't change anything. He was not indoctrinated or killed.

Was Shepard suppose to be indoctrinated or killed?

[Iakus]

There is no correct ending to the game.

The only winning move is not to play.

[PiKey]

So why say Shepard is captured after the base is destroyed when Shepard can be captured before the base is destroyed as well?
 

Was Shepard suppose to be indoctrinated or killed?

 

Yes, it is possible both scenarios. How does this change the fact that Shepard was known to the Reapers?

 

Only if Indocrination Theory is correct.

According to it, the Reapers wanted to do something like this with Shepard. I don't think so. I think, that they were interested in him as in individual.

[Eryri]

An interesting take on the ending OP. I quite like it. It still retains what I consider the most attractive feature of IT - relegating that awful synthesis nonsense to a febrile hallucination.

[themikefest]

 

Yes, it is possible both scenarios. How does this change the fact that Shepard was known to the Reapers?

Never said it would change anything. Right?

[PiKey]

Never said it would change anything. Right?

 

Right.

[PiKey]

An interesting take on the ending OP. I quite like it. It still retains what I consider the most attractive feature of IT - relegating that awful synthesis nonsense to a febrile hallucination.

All the endings are very strange, if we consider them comprehensively. But the fate of Shepard is same everywhere. He should die in all cases. Shepard chooses the path of development not for himself, but for all races in the Galaxy. And pay for it all that he has.

If the Catalyst is telling the truth.

But Shepard may not die. So, the Catalyst is lying. And all content that are logically associated with the words of the Catalyst is a lie.

The catalyst and the Reapers just needed to know the solution of Shepard. The only thing to discuss - why they need it.

In fact, the game is not over. It is interrupted at the most interesting place.

[ZipZap2000]

The only winning move is not to play.

 

Yep, the only way to win a game is not to play it at all and never win it. That would be losing, winning that is, because let's face it; if we let the reapers win, we lose and that's what you'd be doing if you were to play this game and try to win beat the reapers. Even trying is a form of defeat, siding with Saren is not an option here people, he's dead and tribute does not flow from a dead game, least not one that nobody ever lost by winning.

 

In short never play this game, it's really good but you won't like it.

[rossler]

They just don't want to set any limits.

They will have to choose the state of the galaxy at the start of the next game. And it's part of the Canon.

 

Mmmm, no they don't. See, since the original three games were part of a trilogy, Andromeda is not part of that trilogy. It's a clean state. Don't worry, your choices still mattered.

[PiKey]

Mmmm, no they don't. See, since the original three games were part of a trilogy, Andromeda is not part of that trilogy. It's a clean state. Don't worry, your choices still mattered.

Control or synthesis could change the galaxy very much. So they have had to choose something.

[fraggle]

So they have had to choose something.

 

Yes, they chose to go to a different galaxy so they can avoid having to choose a canon ending

[PiKey]

Yes, they chose to go to a different galaxy so they can avoid having to choose a canon ending

Green eyes and skin with microchips would have been visible even in another galaxy.

[PiKey]

by the way... If the catalyst always lived in the Citadel, the game would have been over in the first part.

[PiKey]

One thing is also very strange. The reapers moved the Citadel to Earth when TIM told them that it is part of the Crucible, and Shepard will try to reach it. Then the Reapers closed the Citadel, and linked it with the Earth by a strange ray. (The ray could be a simple simulation). After that, they have only to wait for Shepard. The Harbinger appeared near the ray simultaneously with Shepard. Maybe all it was a personal trap for Shepard?