What I REALLY want is a [Quarian who is] a bit of a scoundrel with, ultimately, a heart of gold. A bit cheeky and rough around the edges. Isn't entirely goody-goody and isn't rigid in the Quarian way of life.
You are describing the character of Han Solo, no?
Edit:
Han to Leia: "You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There are no scoundrels in your life." Then, their first kiss.
Quarians are a resource starved culture. They have developed an entire coming of age ritual because of this crisis of being strapped for resources, the pilgrimage. The idea that they could "afford" to sink even more resources into a suit that they have to wear even inside their own ships seems fanciful. Sure if they had the resources of an entire planet with the infrastructure to support the extraction, transportation and processing of resources on a planetary scale then more robust suits make sense but they need most of their resources just to keep their centuries old ships 'flying.'
It is even a stretch that after hundreds of years with no permanent drydock they could keep the fleet going let alone do so without abundant resources which they don't have. How would they able to afford these "super suits?"
True, the Quarians are a resource-starved people so I wasn't suggesting everyone should be running around in Quarian Mjolnir armour,
But you'd think soldiers like Kal'Reegar would have been issued some kind of special suit for combat situations that was bulkier and offered more protection from enemy fire? Not something they'd necessarily use often or even wear everyday, but more a "smash glass in case of emergency" type deal.
The reason I suggested a Quarian engineer is that it makes sense they might have a specialised suit, to deal with the various hazards that can come with performing maintenance work or should they be required to spend extended time in EVA, such as fixing hull breaches or external repairs to the various ships in the flotilla. The Liveships alone must be a nightmare and take ages to perform routine maintenance for.
Perhaps they further customised it themselves (something we know Tali and most other Quarians do) so we can handwave the atypical upgrades as parts they scrounged and patchworked together, that aren't how the suit comes as standard.
So... less like Master Chief's Mjolnir armour and more like Isaac Clarke's engineer armour in Dead Space?
How about a Quarian Engineer, who cobbled together themselves a tricked out Iron Man suit?
Because am I the only one who hasn't wondered why they've never made the enviro-suits far more sturdier and have far more means of protection, especially when it comes to the troops they deploy into combat zones? Only one of Tali's alternate outfits had a type of blast-shield for the helmet, which - as a secondary means of protection in case the faceplate were compromised - should be a standard feature.
(It's the same with the Volus, when a torn suit can cause you to explode, shouldn't that suit be built like a frigging tank?)
The suits are already very sturdy. Tali's is classed as light armor even though it seems to be fairly standard (the heavier variants with hard plates in ME2 and 3 are obviously armor). Reegar, his marines and the ME3MP quarian soldiers also wear the same suits as everyone else. You can engineer very strong, even bullet resistant materials that are also reasonably flexible (i.e. kevlar) even in the modern day, and the quarians are supposed to be one of if not the most technologically advanced societies in the MEverse.
There's a couple other little indications that the suits are overengineered. Grunt says that his tank imprints indicated that quarians were physically more resilient than humans, asari or salarians, which can be most easily explained by the suits being sturdy (because there's nothing else about quarians biology that would indicate this except maybe their wider use of cybernetics). Joker mentions the suits being heavy (though his comment was really more about jokingly pointing out Tali's feminine figure). There could possibly be hard armor that we don't see. Talimancing Shepard seems to indicate this with a comment on the formal wear suit at the Casino feeling lighter and softer than the normal one.
Oh, there is at least one notable similarity between quarian suits and Iron Man.
True, the Quarians are a resource-starved people so I wasn't suggesting everyone should be running around in Quarian Mjolnir armour,
But you'd think soldiers like Kal'Reegar would have been issued some kind of special suit for combat situations that was bulkier and offered more protection from enemy fire? Not something they'd necessarily use often or even wear everyday, but more a "smash glass in case of emergency" type deal.
The reason I suggested a Quarian engineer is that it makes sense they might have a specialised suit, to deal with the various hazards that can come with performing maintenance work or should they be required to spend extended time in EVA, such as fixing hull breaches or external repairs to the various ships in the flotilla. The Liveships alone must be a nightmare and take ages to perform routine maintenance for.
Perhaps they further customised it themselves (something we know Tali and most other Quarians do) so we can handwave the atypical upgrades as parts they scrounged and patchworked together, that aren't how the suit comes as standard.
So... less like Master Chief's Mjolnir armour and more like Isaac Clarke's engineer armour in Dead Space?
In human culture there is always a conflict between the interests of the individual and the interests of the collective, ideology forms to resolve this conflict, such as the belief that through competitive individualism the whole is made stronger by the natural growth of a meritocracy, more competitive individuals having greater sway, resources and so forth, and thus using it more productively.
Interesting in extreme situations this may not apply, such as the case of American prisoners of war in World War Two, where cigarettes were used as currency, interest was paid through food rations etc and as such there was an associated greater mortality. Allied cultures that emphasized various forms of collectivism, such as the "mateship" values of the Australians, where taking a prisoners rations for the purpose of paying interest was perceived as unethical, had a significantly decreased mortality.
So it is possible for individualism to occur in the context of limited resources and be understood as contributing to the greater good, especially in areas that are perceived to involve personhood. My understanding that the Quarians are said to use their suits to represent their personhood, express forms of individuality and belief, so the idea that the suits are focal aesthetic media in their culture is not unreasonable and if this means that some individuals can customize their suits in extreme ways, the argument that some would have armoured suits, especially when facing danger does not appear unreasonable.
Also think of resource poor cultures, hunter gatherers etc, aesthetic designs using natural pigments and clay occur. Because the suits are the most visible aspect of an individual in Quarian culture I would expect their suits to be highly customizable and show aspects of individual expression. Of course my argument is based on interpreting human culture, but again, this is science fiction, with aliens showing particular themes of human experience.
In a society like the quarians, which emphasizes collectivism, you'll see things more like the geth, just not on a serious scale. Quarians would place less emphasis on their own personal decisions unless they are asked for, and will tend to follow the group.
It might make for an interesting sub-plot. What I'd like to see is a quarian biotic, who consumes a lot in a resource-poor environment. Could lead to some serious bravado issues of a personal desperate to prove himself.
I want a renegade Quarian companion.
I want a renegade Quarian companion.
Why are Quarians unlikely? Bringing Quarians along makes a lot more sense than bringing Krogans.
I guess it's the weak immune system? 'Cause outside of that, I'd say they make more sense than pretty much any other non-Council species. They've more experience than anyone when it comes to keeping ships running with limited resources and no permanent support structure - no bases, colony worlds or whatever else - and that's exactly what you need for an expedition to Andromeda.
I guess it's the weak immune system? 'Cause outside of that, I'd say they make more sense than pretty much any other non-Council species. They've more experience than anyone when it comes to keeping ships running with limited resources and no permanent support structure - no bases, colony worlds or whatever else - and that's exactly what you need for an expedition to Andromeda.
Yeah. Other than perhaps the Geth, the Quarians would be the best choice for the ship-based part of this mission.
Why are Quarians unlikely? Bringing Quarians along makes a lot more sense than bringing Krogans.
Partly it's because of the in-lore possibilities. Events in ME3 might unfold so that Quarians are arguably even closer to extinction than Krogans.
Also, Quarians have the poor immune system and a seriously bad rep with the council races. At least Krogans are frequently hired as mercenaries.
FInally, I remember watching a talk about their plans for ME:A before it was called ME:A where they said they were looking into what races the fans would would be least interested in having featured in future ME games. I think there was even a picture of a Quarian next to a Volus and a Vorcha.
Quarians aren't particularly popular with the majority of the fanbase + lore challenges with including them = I'm tentative about their future in the franchise.
FInally, I remember watching a talk about their plans for ME:A before it was called ME:A where they said they were looking into what races the fans would would be least interested in having featured in future ME games. I think there was even a picture of a Quarian next to a Volus and a Vorcha.
I don't hold that vote to have much weight now. The other race the people there voted they would be least interested in coming back was the Krogan, and we see how that went.
I don't hold that vote to have much weight now. The other race the people there voted they would be least interested in coming back was the Krogan, and we see how that went.
I didn't know that, and I'm kind of shocked to learn it. I thought Krogan were really popular.
Partly it's because of the in-lore possibilities. Events in ME3 might unfold so that Quarians are arguably even closer to extinction than Krogans.
Also, Quarians have the poor immune system and a seriously bad rep with the council races. At least Krogans are frequently hired as mercenaries.
You think the Council races like the Krogan more than the Quarians? The Council races created the Genophage to stop the Krogans from destroying them. The Quarians are just space-gypsies that steal stuff sometimes.
And the Quarian immune system is a non-issue that was minimized to irrelevance throughout the trilogy.
It's not about who I think they like more, it's about who I think they perceive as more useful. Even after they created the Genophage they kept using the Krogan as enforcers in large numbers. Krogan are valuable muscle. Quarians might have the tech savvy, but for all their ingenuity, they don't have a reputation for having impressive warships or exploration vessels. Any feats of engineering they accomplish can be waved away by prejudiced people as just them being thieves and scavengers.
Besides, Krogan are just better at muscling in.
It's not about who I think they like more, it's about who I think they perceive as more useful. Even after they created the Genophage they kept using the Krogan as enforcers in large numbers. Krogan are valuable muscle. Quarians might have the tech savvy, but for all their ingenuity, they don't have a reputation for having impressive warships or exploration vessels.
Besides, Krogan are just better at muscling in.
Who used the Krogan as enforcers? Certainly not the Council or related organizations. Unless you're asserting that the Ark is run by mercenaries you're not making any sense.
All I'm asserting is that I've seen more evidence in universe that Krogan "talents" are perceived by and large as more valuable than Quarian ones on a galaxy wide scale, by sheer virtue of how much more frequently they're employed as hired muscle.
Killroy, I know you like to lock horns, but I kind of don't. These are the reasons for my concern. If you think they don't make sense, then okay. If I'm wrong, then yay. That's really all I've got.
All I'm asserting is that I've seen more evidence in universe that Krogan "talents" are perceived by and large as more valuable than Quarian ones on a galaxy wide scale, by sheer virtue of how much more frequently they're employed as hired muscle.
Killroy, I know you like to lock horns, but I kind of don't. These are the reasons for my concern. If you think they don't make sense, then okay. If I'm wrong, then yay. That's really all I've got.
You are wrong. The Krogan, as a race, have become mercenaries/guns for hire. Of course there are more of them than Quarian mercenaries. Quarians have a reclusive society that values staying together. The only ways for Quarians to become mercenaries are by quitting their pilgrimage or being exiled from the Flotilla.
I know all of that. And I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with authority aboard the arc might continue to hire those mercenaries in case they need muscle in a completely unknown environment.
I know all of that. And I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with authority aboard the arc might continue to hire those mercenaries in case they need muscle in a completely unknown environment.
Because N7 marines and Krogan mercenaries always go hand in hand?
No? But neither do N7 marines and Quarians, so I don't know how that influences a comparison between the two. I don't even understand what we're arguing about anymore. There is a Krogan character confirmed in this game. There isn't a confirmed Quarian character, but I'd like there to be.
I didn't know that, and I'm kind of shocked to learn it. I thought Krogan were really popular.
I think that's sort of the problem with focus groups. Lock any random 30 people into a room and the answers you get aren't necessarily going to be representative of the majority of people. It is way too small a sample size.
Why are Quarians unlikely? Bringing Quarians along makes a lot more sense than bringing Krogans.
Exactly.
Partly it's because of the in-lore possibilities.
Quarians aren't particularly popular with the majority of the fanbase + lore challenges with including them = I'm tentative about their future in the franchise.
Perhaps the fan base isn't too hot for the quarians because their lore has been so limited by the writers. I mean, here's what we mostly know about them: Tali is an adorable character and a fan favorite; the quarian's egg-heads gave their geth slaves an AI, in turn the geth (synthetics) rebelled against their masters (a demo of the reaper's reasoning: "The created always rebel against their creators" (like Adam did to his spirit father)); a whole slew of the geth went renegade and worshiped the reapers, and also worked for the collectors; and depending on player choices the quarians either helped Shepard in the final conflict or they were destroyed by the geth near Rannoch in ME-3. I'm sure I've missed other tidbits about them.
My point being that quarians could be better developed in Andromeda and this could change our view of them into a better light. Certainly there's more to them than being tech-wizard vagabond migrants whose kids venture out on a pilgrimage and return. Not all quarians who leave for their rite of passage return to the fleet; some decide to make a new and different life elsewhere. "For many it is their only opportunity to leave." Certainly there are some quarians who eschewed the nomadic lifestyle to go do more with their lives. I would. There is room within the lore that makes a quarian, or a group of quarians, grow beyond the limitations of their current mindset and communal needs.
I say, let a new quarian character go to Andromeda and show more than we've seen so far. Q. Why wouldn't a quarian use the trip to Andromeda as a pilgrimage and discover there's more to life than returning to the migrant fleet? Perhaps this quarian is all thumbs when it comes to tech know-how, but has other interesting talents. Perhaps it is a quarian scientist who cracked the immunology hurdle to live without a protective closed environment suit. After all, the romanced Tali adapted to Shepard's germs once she got over that disgusting sinus infection. How hard can it be to change one's life and blossom beyond one's dreams? It's not a difficult leap to make.
It's not about who I think they like more, it's about who I think they perceive as more useful. Even after they created the Genophage they kept using the Krogan as enforcers in large numbers. Krogan are valuable muscle. Quarians might have the tech savvy, but for all their ingenuity, they don't have a reputation for having impressive warships or exploration vessels. Any feats of engineering they accomplish can be waved away by prejudiced people as just them being thieves and scavengers.
Besides, Krogan are just better at muscling in.
http://masseffect.wi...arians:_Economy
Quarians are frequently hired in Citadel space for mining, engineering and programming jobs. Part of the hatred for them is because they will work skilled labor positions for lower pay and "take" jobs. Propaganda campaigns and lobbyists portraying them as criminals, and paid for by mining corporations who rival them for resources don't help this perception. They've even gone so far as to try to use false flag attacks to frame the quarians.
http://masseffect.wi...#11.2F27.2F2010
It is notable that there was an asari diplomat who dissented, so the racism seemingly isn't universal. I'd imagine that it wouldn't be widespread among the intelligentsia of Citadel space (because smart/ well educated people tend to be less inclined towards racism), and would be more of a populist opinion among the middle and lower classes, maybe with a few political demagogues stirring the pot when it suits them.
Examples of quarians hired by Citadel species include Tali (hired by Udina to work as an engineer on the Normandy SR-1 regardless of Shepard's opinion on the matter), the quarians who worked on the asteroid station in BDTS (if you take the quarian armor as your reward from Atwell after defeating Balak, he mentions that it is from one among several that they hired to work on the station, along with a compliment that they "knew their stuff"), and the one that the asari forced into debt slavery as an AI programmer on Illium that you can get contracted to Synthetic Insights. Further, every single adult quarian has experience working in either Citadel or Terminus space on their Pilgrimage. That there is racism doesn't seem to mean that finding work is impossible.
By contrast, I never really got the impression that krogan were used as anything other than mercenaries, which really isn't the most useful profession unless you just don't have a standing army or private security contractors. Another stepping block to this project is that they had no diplomatic relations with the Council (partially due to lacking a central government). The quarians at least had that (there are treaties between the Admiralty/Conclave and the Council, even if they are not allies), so there is at least an official mechanism to include quarians if both parties saw it as desirable. I don't see how one could suddenly start hiring krogan mercs without notice, and that's before you consider the fact that krogan have both much higher nutritional requirements and need to be sedated to be transported if there are many of them (mentioned by EDI that otherwise they tend fight each other in enclosed spaces like starships).
However, krogan are in the game, so I doubt that there are any practical considerations at play that would trump their popularity. Whether or not quarians or any other non-Council species are included will be down to a popularity contest, and by that logic I don't think quarians will be included. As said, the general fanbase not only doesn't like them, but actively dislikes them. Only around 1/4 of players chose the quarians at Rannoch, and it was the least popular of the 3 choices by a significant margin. For comparison 92% of players cured the krogan's genophage, showcasing their popularity. Along with the asari, they're the one species that is pretty much synonymous with Mass Effect in the public eye. The quarians aren't. The geth sort of are, so there's a chance they'll be around, which would require mentioning the quarians, but I doubt they'll be there either with Biower wanting to wash their hands of the setting they wrecked in ME3. Both can be deleted with little protest, which would conveniently get rid of their.......uncomfortable "organics v synthetics" subplot too, so that's the most likely scenario IMO.
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