67 replies to this topic

[Ithurael]

I will weigh in on this too I suppose, but I LOVE the concept of Reaper indoctrination.

 

For me - as a lover of Lovecraftian stories - this was a practical representation of Cosmicism. Or Cosmic beings that would drive you crazy just looking at a fraction of them. Don't get me wrong, I love the part in Mts of Madness when the man looks back and sees "something" that turns his hair white and drives him insane. What that something is, what it does, and why is never really practically explained other than - it just does.

 

Reaper indoctrination was a great spin on psychological horror that - sadly IMO - became a catchall for why ppl where shooting at you in ME3. I am still a bit upset and angry over Udina and TIM, but the past is the past.

 

As for IT...lol that ship has sailed, sunk, been resurrected, then shot into the great undying lands of headcanon where it will troll eternal - shiny and chrome.

[dorktainian]

When you start to take actions that you think will help everyone but actually only work in the Reaper's favor.

such as choosing control or synthesis....

[gothpunkboy89]

such as choosing control or synthesis....

 

Nah neither of those help the Reapers save in the most round about way.

[dorktainian]

Nah neither of those help the Reapers save in the most round about way.

 

they help the reapers in every way, by resulting in them being allowed to complete the cycle.  Destroy completes the cycle on our terms.  I call that a win.

[gothpunkboy89]

they help the reapers in every way, by resulting in them being allowed to complete the cycle.  Destroy completes the cycle on our terms.  I call that a win.

 

Completing the cycle means harvesting all advanced organic and synthetic life. Las I checked no ending save the refuse ending has that result.

[Ithurael]

Lol, Alan. They aren't THAT bad.

[rossler]

Destroying the Reapers, breaks the cycle.

[gothpunkboy89]

Destroying the Reapers, breaks the cycle.

So do all the other choices including the refuse ending. Though the cycle isn't broken till some time in the future.

[rossler]

How does control or synthesis break the cycle?

[gothpunkboy89]

How does control or synthesis break the cycle?

 

By putting another consciousness in control of the Reapers that doesn't find harvesting life as the only alternative to destruction. A new solution to be used.

 

Advancing Organics to their next logical step though integrating synthetic into their organic bodies removes the need for Reapers to exist and harvest them because the issues between Organic and Synthetic no longer exist.

[iM3GTR]

Space magic.

[Iakus]

By putting another consciousness in control of the Reapers that doesn't find harvesting life as the only alternative to destruction. A new solution to be used.

 

Advancing Organics to their next logical step though integrating synthetic into their organic bodies removes the need for Reapers to exist and harvest them because the issues between Organic and Synthetic no longer exist.

In other words, we change ourselves to fit the Reapers' definition of a superior race and they won't genocide us 

[rossler]

By putting another consciousness in control of the Reapers that doesn't find harvesting life as the only alternative to destruction. A new solution to be used.

 

Advancing Organics to their next logical step though integrating synthetic into their organic bodies removes the need for Reapers to exist and harvest them because the issues between Organic and Synthetic no longer exist.

 

Remember this?

[gothpunkboy89]

In other words, we change ourselves to fit the Reapers' definition of a superior race and they won't genocide us 

 

Actually it is everyone's definition of superiority.

 

Fastest, smarter, stronger, longer lived. Pretty much defines superiority over current set up. Even if all it did was prevent neural issues that can lead to senility in older people that would make them superiority to our current forms who can and do suffer various degrees of memory loss as we get older.

 

In fact even due to the external technological advancements we have made and integrated with our lives we are superior to our grandparent's generation. And the further we go back the more and more superiority we gain on each generation. Scientist even now are working on creating artificial limbs that act just like real limbs. Responding to nerve impulses to cause movement.

 

You can claim you prefer one over the other but you can't claim it is superior. You can pull out sword and claim it is best. How ever when I pull out a M240 machine gun you can't claim the sword is a superior weapon as I fire 12  7.62x 51mm NATO rounds per second at you. There is a reason we shifted away from  swords to guns as weapon of choice for war and protection.

[gothpunkboy89]

Remember this?

 

Doesn't actually matter the control ending shows Shepard controlling the Reapers.

 

It was once thought that the atomic bomb might ignite the oxygen in the air on fire and burn the planet. After they tested it how ever that was shown to be not true. So the possibility of it might happening is no longer valid.

[Monica21]

Doesn't actually matter the control ending shows Shepard controlling the Reapers.
 
It was once thought that the atomic bomb might ignite the oxygen in the air on fire and burn the planet. After they tested it how ever that was shown to be not true. So the possibility of it might happening is no longer valid.

Yeah, great point. Because no one worries about the consequences of having nuclear warheads sitting around. And no one ever ever worries about rogue states developing nuclear technology. The long term effects of creating nuclear technology, as opposed to the immediate consequences of setting the atmosphere on fire, is not something anyone ever worries about ever. Nuclear weapons are totally safe and there's no reason not to trust nations with that kind of power. Any argument to the contrary is just silly.

[Monica21]

That it really not at all even close to the same logic, but keep on spouting worthless analogies.

[gothpunkboy89]

That it really not at all even close to the same logic, but keep on spouting worthless analogies.

 

I can take a kitchen knife into an area and kill multiple people. They are sharp enough to cut a steak they are sharp enough to cut a human body. Every year thousands of people will die to gun accidents from a kid shooting their sibling to people not knowing the gun wasn't properly taken care of or that they safety wasn't on. If we get into purposeful killing with guns the number grows a staggering amount. People shooting other people for the money in their wallet, shooting each other because they belong to a different gang, because they don't like the color of your skin, your political affiliations, your nationality or your religion.

 

You really don't think that understanding how virus can mutate over time couldn't be used to create a super virus immune to all known cures? The very knowledge of how mixing chemicals is how stuff like sarin gas came into existence.

 

Everything created has room to be used for evil. The item it selves or the technology behind it's development. I seem to remember a couple of airplanes that crashed into some towers killing a couple thousand people. Before that they were the only thing that could be used to transport the bombs dropped on Japan. Hey wasn't that Apollo space plan cool how we managed to get people on the moon showing what humanity is capable of? That same technology is what allows nukes to be launched from any place around the world.

 

Maybe you should be less angry at nukes and more angry at the fact we developed aviation, rockets and boats.  The true evils that allows nukes to be a threat. Other wise they are nothing more then an overly fancy weapons of mass suicide weapons. Only useful for blowing yourself up then anyone else.

[iM3GTR]

Remember this?

Wow. That was like a cheap chinese knock-off of the Saren confrontation.

[iM3GTR]

I can take a kitchen knife into an area and kill multiple people. They are sharp enough to cut a steak they are sharp enough to cut a human body. Every year thousands of people will die to gun accidents from a kid shooting their sibling to people not knowing the gun wasn't properly taken care of or that they safety wasn't on. If we get into purposeful killing with guns the number grows a staggering amount. People shooting other people for the money in their wallet, shooting each other because they belong to a different gang, because they don't like the color of your skin, your political affiliations, your nationality or your religion.

You really don't think that understanding how virus can mutate over time couldn't be used to create a super virus immune to all known cures? The very knowledge of how mixing chemicals is how stuff like sarin gas came into existence.

Everything created has room to be used for evil. The item it selves or the technology behind it's development. I seem to remember a couple of airplanes that crashed into some towers killing a couple thousand people. Before that they were the only thing that could be used to transport the bombs dropped on Japan. Hey wasn't that Apollo space plan cool how we managed to get people on the moon showing what humanity is capable of? That same technology is what allows nukes to be launched from any place around the world.

Maybe you should be less angry at nukes and more angry at the fact we developed aviation, rockets and boats. The true evils that allows nukes to be a threat. Other wise they are nothing more then an overly fancy weapons of mass suicide weapons. Only useful for blowing yourself up then anyone else.

What a cheery thread this turned out to be.

[Monica21]

*snip*

You just had to keep going didn't you? I don't hate nukes. Well, I do but not because I think nuclear weapons are like guns and knives.

And you're pretty far off the reservation, sport. So go back to arguing with someone else and I'll put you back on ignore.

[gothpunkboy89]

You just had to keep going didn't you? I don't hate nukes. Well, I do but not because I think nuclear weapons are like guns and knives.

And you're pretty far off the reservation, sport. So go back to arguing with someone else and I'll put you back on ignore.

 

No actually I'm right on the target. But I'm sorry I didn't realize you were trying to troll me and failed.

 

Technology has no morality of it's own. The same technology that can be used to help can be used to hurt. The Reapers can be tools of destruction or tools to keep the peace. Just like nukes can be tools of destruction or tools that keep the peace. It was the threat of mutually ensured destruction that kept the Soviet and US from open hostility. Either side I'm sure would have loved to have nuked the other. But the effect of launching would result in the other side returning the favor causing as much destruction as they do.

 

chemical bombs are the ones you really have to watch out for. They can be set off any were and can be compact enough to smuggle in or create in city and would spread enough to cause serious loss of life.

[gothpunkboy89]

What a cheery thread this turned out to be.

 

Well that happens when someone attempts to make a poor comparison between Reapers and Nukes. just about everything can kill the question is scale.

[rossler]

Doesn't actually matter the control ending shows Shepard controlling the Reapers.

 

Illusive Man was trying to control the Reapers, then he gets controlled by the Reapers (indoctrinated).

 

Shepard attempts to control the Reapers, and takes control of them?

 

Something is missing here. Shepard should not be able to control the Reapers if the Illusive Man tried and failed to do the exact same thing.

[Eryri]

Illusive Man was trying to control the Reapers, then he gets controlled by the Reapers (indoctrinated).
 
Shepard attempts to control the Reapers, and takes control of them?
 
Something is missing here. Shepard should not be able to control the Reapers if the Illusive Man tried and failed to do the exact same thing.

Indeed. It's a huge thematic about-face. Prior to that moment the game has gone on extensively about the hubris of trying to control the Reapers, and the historical examples of attempts to control the Geth and Krogan didn't turn out so well either. But now, because the hero of the story wants to do it, it's suddenly OK.

But, of course, it isn't really 'Shepard' in control of the Reapers. It's a newly created AI that has some implanted memories of what it was like to be 'Shepard'. It is no more Shepard than EDI would still be EDI if she were copied to a different Blue Box.