61 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I always find that the final battle makes more sense done solo, especially when Cassandra will call out asking if you're alive, even though she should have been right there next to you. 

[Sifr]

They could have done the same thing with the Meredith boss battle at the end of DA2, where you can get various other characters show up to lend in a hand... would have been nice to have our non-used companions engage the enemy, just not under our control.

[vbibbi]

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head here I think the fact they were trying to support the older consoles as wel  as the new ones is what held DAI back from it being a moer epic game than it could have been. I think and hope Bioware has learned from the mistake though and won't repeat it.

 

There were ways to get around hardware limitations, though, and that's what Bioware should have done if they committed to using all five systems. They could have had separate scenes like the battle at the gates of Denerim. I don't think they should be excused for not going through with their original plans if they turned out to be more than some systems could handle. They should have worked around the issues rather than just drop everything.

 

 
Maybe they were all clearing the tunnels on the way to the temple! Er, wait... 
 
 

When I think of the Inner Circle concept, I think of an NPC banter you can hear at Griffon Wing Keep. As the Inquisitor runs by with their crew, Guy A says, "How can I be part of that team?" and I think Guy B remarks on the Inquisitor's badassery, or something. To me, the Inner Circle is not about the Inquisition as an organization, but the people the Inquisitor has chosen to surround himself with, and can be seen as "the best" of the Inquisition in terms of ability. Whether they are friends, or not, or your LI, is incidental. I suppose the fact that the Inquisitor personally recruited all of these people also makes them feel more significant, as if he saw something exceptional in them and wanted that person specifically. And some of them, like Dorian, wouldn't be there at all if you didn't vouch for him; he directly states this if you refuse recruitment (after IHW, I don't know about the CotJ path).

 

Thank the Maker the others weren't clearing the tunnels, or I would rage over how Tessa and Marius ended up doing the exact same job as the companions, only better

 

As to the Inner Circle, I agree that your view is what Bioware was going with, it's just not one that works strongly for me. It's the same issue I have with the premise that until Skyhold we're just a figurehead who happens to be making important decisions. The gameplay-story separation didn't explain well enough why the Herald gets to make the final decision in large choices (whether to side with mages or templars, whether to ally or conscript, especially if Cassandra is in the party with us). So really, why does the Herald have the authority to recruit Bull or Sera or Vivienne and automatically have them join the Inner Circle? Blackwall makes sense because Leliana specifically asks us to find him, and Dorian and Cole work because by the time we decide whether they can stay or not, we've been named the Inquisitor. Plus apart from low approval, we can only kick Sera out of the Inquisition at any time once she's recruited. So once someone gets into the Inner Circle, they have tenure forever.

 

I see it like someone being promoted to a new position within an organization. And that person is like, cool cool let's do this. Oh, and all of my friends are going to get cushy cabinet positions, that's cool right?

 

I mean yeah, that's politics. But I don't have to like it!

 

I always find that the final battle makes more sense done solo, especially when Cassandra will call out asking if you're alive, even though she should have been right there next to you. 

 

I do think that Bio always planned for the final battle to be a group thing. For one, that's how all of their final battles go, and normally it's one of the touching moments where we speak to the companions and they tell us how great we are one last time. Secondly, there was the cut content of Cole being forced to Cory's will if we hadn't completed his personal quest. Potentially there were other interactions cut as well, as the entire thing feels rushed, so there could have been plans for a much more complex quest with companion involvement.

 

But it is strange when Cassandra calls out to us if she was in the party. I guess after Cory died the temple crashed down and everyone was separated, but that's not shown.

[nightscrawl]

It's the same issue I have with the premise that until Skyhold we're just a figurehead who happens to be making important decisions. The gameplay-story separation didn't explain well enough why the Herald gets to make the final decision in large choices (whether to side with mages or templars, whether to ally or conscript, especially if Cassandra is in the party with us).

Yeah, I do agree with you, there. I've always felt that the circumstance was a bit odd. It's one thing for the masses to be looking on our PC with awe, but another for these leaders in the Inquisition to go along with these decisions, especially the mage/templar one, which is accepted, even if grudgingly by some people.

 

... and Dorian and Cole work because by the time we decide whether they can stay or not, we've been named the Inquisitor.

This is a bit nitpicky, I realize... but this only applies to one of these in any given play. Whether you do IHW or CotJ, you recruit Dorian (or Cole) after that mission while you are still only the Herald. The left over fellow gets recruited at Skyhold by the Inquisitor.

BUT, some of that recruitment stuff can be mitigated if you metagame (not ideal, I know) and do most of the recruiting after you arrive at Skyhold. I'm pretty sure you can hold off on recruiting Sera, Vivienne, and Blackwall, and I know you can with Iron Bull. If you do that, then the only person you will have actually recruited as the Herald will be either Dorian or Cole after their respective mission.

But again, that requires metagaming. Also, there is a strong argument to be made for doing those quests when you get them and in the earlier context because of the way everything plays out.

 

Plus apart from low approval, we can only kick Sera out of the Inquisition at any time once she's recruited. So once someone gets into the Inner Circle, they have tenure forever.

Yeah, I think this is a problem as well. Also, not that I would ever do it, but I don't like the option to punch Solas and Dorian, and only those two, but that's probably another topic.

 

Secondly, there was the cut content of Cole being forced to Cory's will if we hadn't completed his personal quest. Potentially there were other interactions cut as well, as the entire thing feels rushed, so there could have been plans for a much more complex quest with companion involvement.

Corypheus does have words for everyone you bring along, and they respond, so at least that's something. However, I've noticed that on casual I basically have to hang out and do nothing while waiting for the lines to play; it takes a bit for everyone.

 

But it is strange when Cassandra calls out to us if she was in the party. I guess after Cory died the temple crashed down and everyone was separated, but that's not shown.

Does she do this even if not in a romance? I can't recall. I do find the final battle cinematic a bit odd for its lack of party members.

In DAO, after the Warden rushes and stabs the Archdemon with the Convenient Cinematic Sword, there is a good bit of two of the party members (I just recall Alistair and Wynne at the moment) looking at each other as the light shoots up from the dragon corpse like, "Wtf? Holy sh*t!" It would have been great if there were a similar moment with party members after the scene right after the Inquisitor says, "You wanted into the Fade?" and does his thing.

[Lezio]

Does she do this even if not in a romance? I can't recall. I do find the final battle cinematic a bit odd for its lack of party members.

In DAO, after the Warden rushes and stabs the Archdemon with the Convenient Cinematic Sword, there is a good bit of two of the party members (I just recall Alistair and Wynne at the moment) looking at each other as the light shoots up from the dragon corpse like, "Wtf? Holy sh*t!" It would have been great if there were a similar moment with party members after the scene right after the Inquisitor says, "You wanted into the Fade?" and does his thing.

 

I think something like ME1 and ME2 would have fit even better, since the last fight with Cory is more akin to the last fight with Saren/Collectors.

 

Then again, i really don't know if an epic finale with an epic music would have saved the lackluster final mission. Probably i straight up stopped considering Corypheus a threat after Haven, but that whole last fight just felt like "Yeah, taking care of business" instead of, y'know, finally taking down the bastard.

 

Also, talking about allies, i think it's kind of cheap and unrewarding that we never actually get to see the power of Inquisition in action. Hell, gaining allies to take down the bad guy was the whole point of Origins too, but at least in that game we got a whole (awesome) cutscene of seeing that army, the troops we had gathered, in action AND a whole gameplay mechanic about it in the Siege of Denerim.

Inquisition is all about the power, and yet that power is just a number. Much like ME3, really

[Donk]

They were having a dance party behind the scenes where our systems wouldn't have to provide RAM, AI, or rendering for them.

Dying.

[Knight of Dane]

I actually was just having a conversation where I mentioned that I headcanon Bull as not part of my Inquisitor's Inner Circle since she's a little wary of allowing a unrepentant Qunari spy into the details of her organization's workings.

As I see it, the Inner Circle should really be the advisors and Cassandra, plus possibly Vivienne/Solas as "arcane advisor" depending if RPing as a Chantry faithful or not. Everyone else are specialized agents (Cole, Bull and the Chargers), network contacts (Sera, Blackwall was supposed to be but had no idea where the Wardens were, Varric to an extent) or sources of knowledge (Dorian's Tevinter lore against magisters, Varric's knowledge of red lyrium and Hawke, Solas' knowledge of the Fade).

They can be friends of the IQ depending on how you RP, but few of them I would consider "Inner Circle" candidates from an organizational standpoint.

 

My hope during development was that they'd (the companions) act in more roles than just tag-along. For example, I remember talking about a "chancelor of the hall" of sorts, which would have been any companion you'd pick when becoming Inquisitor and they would appear with you during trials to offer advice. That would have been a simple and amazing way of introducing something professional to the inner circle and replayability.

 

Another would have been a "special" slot or two for he war table where on some occasions you could defer to a companions advice over the main advisors. This would mainly be in their own war table missions.

 

Then lastly, mostly as fluff, there should really have been sections where you ordered your companions into specific positions during a important mission, similar to the GTA V heists I suppose.

Take the Warden fortress for example. Some companions is put on the walls, some for escorting you and the Champion and some to defend choke points. How many wardens could be turned or how few soldiers you would lose would depend on what companions did what.

 

Obviously the game would have needed a proper troop system then, but that is just wishful thinking.

[vbibbi]

Yeah, I do agree with you, there. I've always felt that the circumstance was a bit odd. It's one thing for the masses to be looking on our PC with awe, but another for these leaders in the Inquisition to go along with these decisions, especially the mage/templar one, which is accepted, even if grudgingly by some people.

 

 Yeah, I would have at least liked for Cassandra to have more lines in reaction to the PC making decisions independently. I know that she and the advisors do discuss how we made the decision in the heat of the moment because there was no time to deliberate and wait for the advisors to come and make their opinions known. But then it also addresses the greater issue that the Inquisition is just acting without solid leadership until Skyhold, since Cassandra's role is never actually explained. I guess it's just the advisors and her acting as a committee and making decisions by consensus? The "Dawn Will Come" scene shows that they're not very effective together, so it's a surprise that they were able to function as the leadership up until that point. I really wish Cassandra had been better explained as per the leadership of the Inquisition.
 

This is a bit nitpicky, I realize... but this only applies to one of these in any given play. Whether you do IHW or CotJ, you recruit Dorian (or Cole) after that mission while you are still only the Herald. The left over fellow gets recruited at Skyhold by the Inquisitor.

Um, actually *pushes up glasses* I was referring to how both Dorian and Cole have a secondary recruitment conversation once in Skyhold. Neither are technically considered as companions until after we talk to them, at which point we can opt to keep them or kick them out. We have that conversation with Solas, Vivienne and Cassandra on Cole, and then we have the conversation with Dorian in the library (he threatens to leave if we did the templar path because that nets serious disapproval with him, and we have to assure him that we want him there).  /nerdism
 

BUT, some of that recruitment stuff can be mitigated if you metagame (not ideal, I know) and do most of the recruiting after you arrive at Skyhold. I'm pretty sure you can hold off on recruiting Sera, Vivienne, and Blackwall, and I know you can with Iron Bull. If you do that, then the only person you will have actually recruited as the Herald will be either Dorian or Cole after their respective mission.

But again, that requires metagaming. Also, there is a strong argument to be made for doing those quests when you get them and in the earlier context because of the way everything plays out.

 
I have never recruited any of them after Skyhold because I was afraid that they might no longer be available. It would make more sense that we have the authority to recruit them then. Still, it could have been relevant to say that we're trying to increase the Inquisition's forces and reputation. Heck, have Cullen ask for more mercenaries (Bull), Leliana wanting more spies on the ground (Sera) and Josephine asking for a connection to Imperial politics (Vivienne). Blackwall remains as is, as I mentioned above how he fits.

 

Yeah, I think this is a problem as well. Also, not that I would ever do it, but I don't like the option to punch Solas and Dorian, and only those two, but that's probably another topic.

 
It's strange how uneven the gameplay mechanics are regarding companions. Vivienne will never leave despite low approval (it makes sense from a Divine election perspective, but since we can opt not to recruit her at all, it would be no different from having the two mandatory nominees). Sera always has the dialogue option to ask her to leave (which, should it be in the primary dialogue wheel? I'm always afraid I'll click it by accident when exploring other options). We can punch certain companions. Why can't we kick Bull out after Qunari assassins infiltrate Skyhold? Why can't we ask Varric to leave after revealing he leaked the source of red lyrium?

 

Corypheus does have words for everyone you bring along, and they respond, so at least that's something. However, I've noticed that on casual I basically have to hang out and do nothing while waiting for the lines to play; it takes a bit for everyone.

 

Oh really? I knew he had different dialogue for the Inquisitor backgrounds, but I don't think I've heard him speak directly to most of the companions. I know some of the companions still had dialogue about the whole situation, but not responding to Cory's lines to them. I don't know if I just plowed through the fight too fast or if it was bugged out like banter.
 

Does she do this even if not in a romance? I can't recall. I do find the final battle cinematic a bit odd for its lack of party members.

In DAO, after the Warden rushes and stabs the Archdemon with the Convenient Cinematic Sword, there is a good bit of two of the party members (I just recall Alistair and Wynne at the moment) looking at each other as the light shoots up from the dragon corpse like, "Wtf? Holy sh*t!" It would have been great if there were a similar moment with party members after the scene right after the Inquisitor says, "You wanted into the Fade?" and does his thing.

 
AFAIK she says that every time. The scene is jarring for me because the PC is the only person in the temple ruins while everyone else, companions we brought to the fight or not, is clear of the rubble and walking up to us. Did everyone else get thrown clear of the battle and only the Inquisitor was left there? I agree that the companions we had with us should have had something like the scene in killing the archdemon, and have the companions we didn't bring to battle walk up to us with Morrigan.

 

I think something like ME1 and ME2 would have fit even better, since the last fight with Cory is more akin to the last fight with Saren/Collectors.
 
Then again, i really don't know if an epic finale with an epic music would have saved the lackluster final mission. Probably i straight up stopped considering Corypheus a threat after Haven, but that whole last fight just felt like "Yeah, taking care of business" instead of, y'know, finally taking down the bastard.
 
Also, talking about allies, i think it's kind of cheap and unrewarding that we never actually get to see the power of Inquisition in action. Hell, gaining allies to take down the bad guy was the whole point of Origins too, but at least in that game we got a whole (awesome) cutscene of seeing that army, the troops we had gathered, in action AND a whole gameplay mechanic about it in the Siege of Denerim.
Inquisition is all about the power, and yet that power is just a number. Much like ME3, really

 
I view the Arbor Wilds as the "final battle" where we see our forces amassed and it changes based on our choices (which ruler of Orlais is in camp, we have Barris if sides with templars). But it's not a wonderful display of this, since those are the only two examples I can think of off the top of my head. And then the power of that large scale fight is watered down by the lengthy temple sequence that goes into the Final Piece Quest, which goes to the final battle. The momentum of that battle dies pretty quickly and the fact that we're not locked into the final sequence by entering the Arbor Wilds doesn't help.

[vbibbi]

My hope during development was that they'd (the companions) act in more roles than just tag-along. For example, I remember talking about a "chancelor of the hall" of sorts, which would have been any companion you'd pick when becoming Inquisitor and they would appear with you during trials to offer advice. That would have been a simple and amazing way of introducing something professional to the inner circle and replayability.

 

Another would have been a "special" slot or two for he war table where on some occasions you could defer to a companions advice over the main advisors. This would mainly be in their own war table missions.

 

Then lastly, mostly as fluff, there should really have been sections where you ordered your companions into specific positions during a important mission, similar to the GTA V heists I suppose.

Take the Warden fortress for example. Some companions is put on the walls, some for escorting you and the Champion and some to defend choke points. How many wardens could be turned or how few soldiers you would lose would depend on what companions did what.

 

Obviously the game would have needed a proper troop system then, but that is just wishful thinking.

 

Yeah this would have been cool. It would require the entire game be more strategic and overhaul the war table and power points system. Instead of picking the correct advisor to complete a mission, have there be a point system, where each advisor provides a base number, then we can add on to that. Have Bull go with the Chargers to investigate Therinfall? Add two points. Want him in the field with us? The Chargers might not be as successful in their mission. Built the Chantry garden upgrade? Add one point to all Chantry-related missions and subtract one from mage rebellion missions.

 

Maybe even have some companions give negative points if they're assigned poorly. Have Sera participate in any diplomacy mission and take two points away.

 

Since we can only do three missions at one time, even if we had three companions locked into those missions, we would still have six others to use in the field. And if a player doesn't want to recruit everyone, they just have fewer options available. Have the game prevent assigning a companion to a mission if there are only three unassigned companions available.

[Lezio]

My hope during development was that they'd (the companions) act in more roles than just tag-along. For example, I remember talking about a "chancelor of the hall" of sorts, which would have been any companion you'd pick when becoming Inquisitor and they would appear with you during trials to offer advice. That would have been a simple and amazing way of introducing something professional to the inner circle and replayability.
 
Another would have been a "special" slot or two for he war table where on some occasions you could defer to a companions advice over the main advisors. This would mainly be in their own war table missions.
 
Then lastly, mostly as fluff, there should really have been sections where you ordered your companions into specific positions during a important mission, similar to the GTA V heists I suppose.
Take the Warden fortress for example. Some companions is put on the walls, some for escorting you and the Champion and some to defend choke points. How many wardens could be turned or how few soldiers you would lose would depend on what companions did what.
 
Obviously the game would have needed a proper troop system then, but that is just wishful thinking.

 
That would have been awesome
 
Personally, i also wish, since i played the awesomeness that is ME2, that it was possible for companions to die during the main plot based on the party selection and where the quest is taking place. Like, for example, Cole could have lost himself in the fade at Adamant if he was in the party and if he didn't have the anti-possession amulet. They did something similiar with Bull in Trespasser, but if such things were also in the main game it would give a whole new depth to every party selection for each mission instead of just "pick always the same 3 favorites and go"
 

I view the Arbor Wilds as the "final battle" where we see our forces amassed and it changes based on our choices (which ruler of Orlais is in camp, we have Barris if sides with templars). But it's not a wonderful display of this, since those are the only two examples I can think of off the top of my head. And then the power of that large scale fight is watered down by the lengthy temple sequence that goes into the Final Piece Quest, which goes to the final battle. The momentum of that battle dies pretty quickly and the fact that we're not locked into the final sequence by entering the Arbor Wilds doesn't help.

I believe 100% there were supposed to be many more things happening there. In the first 1/3 of the "outside the temple" area there is literally only Celene/Gaspard and Josephine to talk and at the very first camp there is a supply container, even though there's no one to fight and no way to lose potions. It's, basically, the same old "run through the area while killing the wolves/demons/whatever". It's just too big of an area for it to be so void (which is the main theme of the game, but still)

[Knight of Dane]

Since we can only do three missions at one time, even if we had three companions locked into those missions, we would still have six others to use in the field. And if a player doesn't want to recruit everyone, they just have fewer options available. Have the game prevent assigning a companion to a mission if there are only three unassigned companions available.

 

Tbh the whole war table was more of a chore than a choice. Take the annoying timers away and make them depend on story progression and interaction instead would have been good. That way they could unlock quests similar to how some already do with the various Elven ruins you can go to.

 

It would have suited the game well to have more of those smaller areas as spice to the big boring ones.

[Gervaise]

I think certain things may have been dropped through lack of time or some other reason.   We know the option to customize the various Keeps didn't make it to the final game.  There were also still scenes shown at one time that seemed to have all the Inner Circle at the War Table, so it may have originally been the intention to have the option to consult with them.    The customization of Skyhold was merely cosmetic but I wonder if originally it may have been intended to be more significant.   I know I was envisaging it being like with Vigil's Keep or ME2, so if certain upgrades hadn't taken place then it would affect the outcome at the end but sadly that didn't happen and the only upgrade that seemed worth pursuing was the garden, keeping it as such and then planting the extra pots with whatever resource you were short of. 

 

The fact that the whole squad was able to play a part at the end in both DAO and DA2, plus additional people you had helped along the way in the latter, makes me think that originally they intended to have a split sequence (like DAO), with your unused companions fighting demons on the ground (which we know they were doing) somewhere between the other fights on the floating temple.    Incidentally, the reason you don't get all the comments by Corypheus is when you are too highly powered on reaching the final battle so you reduce his hit points too quickly.   At level 23/24, which is what you are if you have done most of the game (and dragons) I found if I wanted to hear what he had to say, I had to just stand around and let him hit me but even then my stalwart companions might finish him off too quick.

 

As for the Haven Battle, I think you have to assume that when you tell the others to run, a lot of debris gets between you and them.   While they are trying to get back to you, you have your conversation with Corypheus.   Then you bring down the last of the mountain on Haven (having seen the signal that everyone is safe) and your companions only just get out alive, assuming that you have been killed.

[vbibbi]

I think certain things may have been dropped through lack of time or some other reason.   We know the option to customize the various Keeps didn't make it to the final game.  There were also still scenes shown at one time that seemed to have all the Inner Circle at the War Table, so it may have originally been the intention to have the option to consult with them.

 

I think the Inner Circle picture was just promotional material. It resembled the Last Supper and had Solas in Judas' spot. I don't think it was a reference to any intended use of each companion in the war room.

 

As for the Haven Battle, I think you have to assume that when you tell the others to run, a lot of debris gets between you and them.   While they are trying to get back to you, you have your conversation with Corypheus.   Then you bring down the last of the mountain on Haven (having seen the signal that everyone is safe) and your companions only just get out alive, assuming that you have been killed.

 

Yeah, I can see this being the likely rationale behind the scene. I think it could have been better explained in the game, though. Too much of the game seems to have been designed with the mentality "eh, we'll let the player fill in the blanks, they'll get it." Yes, we can, but we shouldn't need to headcanon so many things.

 

Even if there was a mention from Mother Giselle when we wake up that our companions were cut off from us and unable to search for us before the avalanche hit, that would help. I think there was some odd phrasing when she told us the people had seen us fall and rise again. That makes it sound like someone actually saw us fall into the mining tunnels, when in fact everyone just saw us run to face Cory and then an avalanche fell on us. So people assumed we had fallen, but no one saw it. She could have said "your companions saw you fall to the ground just as they started to come back for you and thought you lost" or something to that effect.

[Gervaise]

No, I don't mean the "Last Supper" shot but other screen shots that showed Solas and others standing around the war table, not ranged along the back of it.    They seemed to be looking at it as if being consulted about what to do.  It had to be an early concept shot because the war table wasn't as developed as it later became but it looked like it was taking place in Haven rather than Skyhold.   The figures present were Inquisitor, Cassandra, Varric, Vivienne and Solas near the table and Iron Bull lurking in the background.

[vbibbi]

No, I don't mean the "Last Supper" shot but other screen shots that showed Solas and others standing around the war table, not ranged along the back of it. They seemed to be looking at it as if being consulted about what to do. It had to be an early concept shot because the war table wasn't as developed as it later became but it looked like it was taking place in Haven rather than Skyhold. The figures present were Inquisitor, Cassandra, Varric, Vivienne and Solas near the table and Iron Bull lurking in the background.

Ohh when Dorian was dubbed dramatic hands mustache guy or whatever.

[BansheeOwnage]

They could have done the same thing with the Meredith boss battle at the end of DA2, where you can get various other characters show up to lend in a hand... would have been nice to have our non-used companions engage the enemy, just not under our control.

Either that, or they have a second group that you could switch to and control one or more times, like DA:O.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Gervaise: You mean this concept art?

 

[BansheeOwnage]

There were ways to get around hardware limitations, though, and that's what Bioware should have done if they committed to using all five systems. They could have had separate scenes like the battle at the gates of Denerim. I don't think they should be excused for not going through with their original plans if they turned out to be more than some systems could handle. They should have worked around the issues rather than just drop everything.

That's wishful thinking when it comes to Bioware!

 

 

Yeah, I think this is a problem as well. Also, not that I would ever do it, but I don't like the option to punch Solas and Dorian, and only those two, but that's probably another topic.

I don't understand that either. Like, why can we kick Sera out anytime, but not anyone else, ever? Why can we punch Dorian and Solas with low approval, but again, no one else ever? In some ways it feels like Bioware is making some RP choices for us in advance, because of how they predict we'll see the characters.

 

 

Corypheus does have words for everyone you bring along, and they respond, so at least that's something. However, I've noticed that on casual I basically have to hang out and do nothing while waiting for the lines to play; it takes a bit for everyone.

Like Vbibbi, I have never heard any comments about companions from Corypheus, only about the Inquisitor      If it is based on how long it takes to kill him, Bioware seriously overestimated his menace. With a good party, I don't even think it would be terribly hard at the appropriate level, but didn't Bioware realize most would be over-leveled? Well, obviously not I suppose, or they'd have made the "recommended" levels and difficulty higher.

 

I think the Inner Circle picture was just promotional material. It resembled the Last Supper and had Solas in Judas' spot. I don't think it was a reference to any intended use of each companion in the war room.

It makes me really sad that the only scene with every companion in it in the entire base game was the one in the last mission, which is very brief and they don't even say anything. We're supposed to be a team! And were definitely marketed as one, similar to ME2. There are actually more shots of everyone together made specifically for trailers than not (walking down the Skyhold stairs and the War Table one).

 

The only other one is at the end of Trespasser (minus Solas of course) and again, they don't interact. At least the advisors were there...

[BansheeOwnage]

You mean this concept art?

Geez Inquisitor, what did the Waking Sea ever do to you?    And nice job soiling the map, though I suppose you ruined it anyway

 

Random thoughts:

Spoiler

- The Inquisition is almost as bad as Shield when it comes to plastering their logo on everything. Like, enough banners?

- Inquisitor's crown is weird.

- Cassandra has a cool outfit.

-EVERYONE'S AAAANGRY

- Dorian's mustache is so much bigger!

- Cullen looks so different, but more like his DA2 version I suppose. He's wearing Templar light armour, but that makes no sense in a couple of ways.

- Wait, Solas, is that... hair? Get it away!

- Josephine is prettier here than she turned out to be in my humble opinion.

- Obviously this concept art is a lie! Solas is still there when the map is stabbed!

[Lezio]

That's wishful thinking when it comes to Bioware!

 

I don't understand that either. Like, why can we kick Sera out anytime, but not anyone else, ever? Why can we punch Dorian and Solas with low approval, but again, no one else ever? In some ways it feels like Bioware is making some RP choices for us in advance, because of how they predict we'll see the characters.

 

Like Vbibbi, I have never heard any comments about companions from Corypheus, only to the Inquisitor      If it is based on how long it takes to kill him, Bioware seriously overestimated his menace. With a good party, I don't even think it would be terrible hard at the appropriate level, but didn't Bioware realize most would be over-leveled? Well, obviously not I suppose, or they'd have made the "recommended" levels and difficulty higher.

 

It makes me really sad that the only scene with every companion in it in the entire base game was the one in the last mission, which is very brief and they don't even say anything. We're supposed to be a team! And were definitely marketed as one, similar to ME2. There are actually more shots of everyone together made specifically for trailers than not (walking down the Skyhold stairs and the War Table one).

 

The only other one is at the end of Trespasser (minus Solas of course) and again, they don't interact. At least the advisors were there...

 

Yeah, don't get me wrong i liked many of the companions but it never felt to me like the party was "family", y'know? DA2, with all its flaws, really has that feeling of "we have each others back no matter what cuz we're family" (apart from Act 2/3 Anders, i really can't think of one party member who wouldn't die to save another of the team).

Origins too, in my opinion, has the same feeling, only born out of "camaraderie" rather than "we've spent years together"

 

One thing they should have done is having the companions move around Skyhold. Like, seriously, why to unlock Dorian and Bull's romance do i have stand around for hours waiting for the right banters to trigger? Just have 2-3 dialogues trigger around Skyhold every time The Inquisitor comes back from an area, the place could have used more life anyway (and, going by this idea, in there they could also have fit a couple of banters for Morrigan and Leliana, possibly Alistair too. How awesome would it have been coming back to Skyhold, walking into the garden and hearing Morrigan belittling Alistair like in the old days?)

[Addictress]

Geez Inquisitor, what did the Waking Sea ever do to you?    And nice job soiling the map, though I suppose you ruined it anyway

 

Random thoughts:

Spoiler

- The Inquisition is almost as bad as Shield when it comes to plastering their logo on everything. Like, enough banners?

- Inquisitor's crown is weird.

- Cassandra has a cool outfit.

-EVERYONE'S AAAANGRY

- Dorian's mustache is so much bigger!

- Cullen looks so different, but more like his DA2 version I suppose. He's wearing Templar light armour, but that makes no sense in a couple of ways.

- Wait, Solas, is that... hair? Get it away!

- Josephine is prettier here than she turned out to be in my humble opinion.

- Obviously this concept art is a lie! Solas is still there when the map is stabbed!

*laughing*

 

*still laughing*

 

The way he stabs the map. Such violent intent.

[Addictress]

Yeah, don't get me wrong i liked many of the companions but it never felt to me like the party was "family", y'know? DA2, with all its flaws, really has that feeling of "we have each others back no matter what cuz we're family" (apart from Act 2/3 Anders, i really can't think of one party member who wouldn't die to save another of the team).

Origins too, in my opinion, has the same feeling, only born out of "camaraderie" rather than "we've spent years together"

 

One thing they should have done is having the companions move around Skyhold. Like, seriously, why to unlock Dorian and Bull's romance do i have stand around for hours waiting for the right banters to trigger? Just have 2-3 dialogues trigger around Skyhold every time The Inquisitor comes back from an area, the place could have used more life anyway (and, going by this idea, in there they could also have fit a couple of banters for Morrigan and Leliana, possibly Alistair too. How awesome would it have been coming back to Skyhold, walking into the garden and hearing Morrigan belittling Alistair like in the old days?)

*punching imaginary THIS button repeatedly*

[nightscrawl]

But then it also addresses the greater issue that the Inquisition is just acting without solid leadership until Skyhold, since Cassandra's role is never actually explained. I guess it's just the advisors and her acting as a committee and making decisions by consensus? The "Dawn Will Come" scene shows that they're not very effective together, so it's a surprise that they were able to function as the leadership up until that point. I really wish Cassandra had been better explained as per the leadership of the Inquisition.

Iron Bull has an interesting bit of dialogue regarding this if you recruit him at Haven. He doesn't come right out and say it, but I think the implication is there that, "Hey, I'm looking at a good candidate for leadership right now." It's a shame really, because I think that the content of the conversation would be good for my Inquisitor's headcanon.

 

Um, actually *pushes up glasses* I was referring to how both Dorian and Cole have a secondary recruitment conversation once in Skyhold. Neither are technically considered as companions until after we talk to them, at which point we can opt to keep them or kick them out. We have that conversation with Solas, Vivienne and Cassandra on Cole, and then we have the conversation with Dorian in the library (he threatens to leave if we did the templar path because that nets serious disapproval with him, and we have to assure him that we want him there).  /nerdism

I think I'm not being clear about the period of the game I'm referring to. Or perhaps we're talking past each other, I'm not sure XD. Let's just take Dorian. You do IHW, and afterward in the chantry there is a recruitment dialogue during the conversation with the advisors. At that point, you recruit him into the Inquisition and he is a full member. In that same IHW path, you meet Cole during In Your Heart Shall burn at the Haven gates, and then once at Skyhold, as Inquisitor, you have the opportunity to recruit him.

For the CotJ path, the opposite is true: you recruit Cole into the Inquisition at Haven, and then have the option with Dorian at Skyhold.

Regardless of which path you take, you recruit (or refuse) one of those two after their mission in Haven, and the other at Skyhold. So it's not "both" in a single play. But yes, unlike all the rest, these two have alternate recruitment conversations, depending on when you recruit them.

 

Oh really? I knew he had different dialogue for the Inquisitor backgrounds, but I don't think I've heard him speak directly to most of the companions. I know some of the companions still had dialogue about the whole situation, but not responding to Cory's lines to them. I don't know if I just plowed through the fight too fast or if it was bugged out like banter.

Like Vbibbi, I have never heard any comments about companions from Corypheus, only to the Inquisitor If it is based on how long it takes to kill him, Bioware seriously overestimated his menace. With a good party, I don't even think it would be terrible hard at the appropriate level, but didn't Bioware realize most would be over-leveled? Well, obviously not I suppose, or they'd have made the "recommended" levels and difficulty higher.

I can only recall Cole and Dorian's at the moment. For a Cole who has been made more human, Corypheus orally attempts some manipulation, and Cole refuses. If you heard this dialogue, Cole will reference it at the party and be like, "Did you see?! He wasn't able to control me!" (It's pretty adorable, actually.) For Dorian, Corypheus basically accuses him of being a traitor to Tevinter and Dorian responds that Corypheus's Tevinter isn't his Tevinter.

 

It is dependent on time. In one play, my Inquisitor didn't really do anything while the rest of the party pew-pew'd Corypheus, and I only got one of the dialogues to fire before he was dead; they were still too powerful, even without me helping.

 

AFAIK she says that every time. The scene is jarring for me because the PC is the only person in the temple ruins while everyone else, companions we brought to the fight or not, is clear of the rubble and walking up to us. Did everyone else get thrown clear of the battle and only the Inquisitor was left there? I agree that the companions we had with us should have had something like the scene in killing the archdemon, and have the companions we didn't bring to battle walk up to us with Morrigan.

The whole scene is done oddly. We're there with Solas and the broken orb, and then we leave to join everyone else. Where were they? Why isn't the Inquisitor's boy/girlfriend glomping onto them, saying, "WE'RE ALIVE!"?

 

I view the Arbor Wilds as the "final battle" where we see our forces amassed and it changes based on our choices (which ruler of Orlais is in camp, we have Barris if sides with templars). But it's not a wonderful display of this, since those are the only two examples I can think of off the top of my head. And then the power of that large scale fight is watered down by the lengthy temple sequence that goes into the Final Piece Quest, which goes to the final battle. The momentum of that battle dies pretty quickly and the fact that we're not locked into the final sequence by entering the Arbor Wilds doesn't help.

I agree. Because of the pacing, the final fight with Corypheus just feels anti-climactic. It also doesn't help that several people have bits of dialogue, Josephine in particular, that act as if the end is nigh, when you could still go traipsing around the Hissing Wastes, or whatever other map you need to finish. This is the reason why I finish everything before going to the Arbor Wilds, so it flows better story-wise (I even wrote a guide!). But I think this is one of those game design decisions so there is a clear delineation for the player of when the ending is so they can feel free to wrap up whatever other content. And of course we get all of the unique follower dialogue post-mission, as we do for all of the missions.

[vbibbi]

Geez Inquisitor, what did the Waking Sea ever do to you?    And nice job soiling the map, though I suppose you ruined it anyway

 

Random thoughts:

Spoiler

- The Inquisition is almost as bad as Shield when it comes to plastering their logo on everything. Like, enough banners?

- Inquisitor's crown is weird.

- Cassandra has a cool outfit.

-EVERYONE'S AAAANGRY

- Dorian's mustache is so much bigger!

- Cullen looks so different, but more like his DA2 version I suppose. He's wearing Templar light armour, but that makes no sense in a couple of ways.

- Wait, Solas, is that... hair? Get it away!

- Josephine is prettier here than she turned out to be in my humble opinion.

- Obviously this concept art is a lie! Solas is still there when the map is stabbed!

 

The Inquisitor probably took decorating advice from Josephine, the woman who wears a dress of shiny gold lamé. I bet the IQ has patterned underwear with the logo. One of my favorite banters was Sera mistaking the eye for Andraste's...holiness.

 

Yeah, don't get me wrong i liked many of the companions but it never felt to me like the party was "family", y'know? DA2, with all its flaws, really has that feeling of "we have each others back no matter what cuz we're family" (apart from Act 2/3 Anders, i really can't think of one party member who wouldn't die to save another of the team).

Origins too, in my opinion, has the same feeling, only born out of "camaraderie" rather than "we've spent years together"

 

One thing they should have done is having the companions move around Skyhold. Like, seriously, why to unlock Dorian and Bull's romance do i have stand around for hours waiting for the right banters to trigger? Just have 2-3 dialogues trigger around Skyhold every time The Inquisitor comes back from an area, the place could have used more life anyway (and, going by this idea, in there they could also have fit a couple of banters for Morrigan and Leliana, possibly Alistair too. How awesome would it have been coming back to Skyhold, walking into the garden and hearing Morrigan belittling Alistair like in the old days?)

 

Yeah I've said before that the dynamic between all of the companions and advisors feels like coworkers rather than friends or family. The IQ might be friends or lovers with the NPCs, but to me, the overall group feeling is more formal and distant than previous games. It makes sense, since DAO was people scrapping by together over a year and DA2 was more of a slice of life over the course of many years. While DAI is a group of people who work for the same organization. But I do think maybe having more of the companion relationships fleshed out through cutscenes rather than banter could have helped. More Dorian and Cullen chess, less standing around the Hissing Wastes for hours hoping to trigger a Bull/Dorian romance.

 

Iron Bull has an interesting bit of dialogue regarding this if you recruit him at Haven. He doesn't come right out and say it, but I think the implication is there that, "Hey, I'm looking at a good candidate for leadership right now." It's a shame really, because I think that the content of the conversation would be good for my Inquisitor's headcanon.
 

I think I'm not being clear about the period of the game I'm referring to. Or perhaps we're talking past each other, I'm not sure XD. Let's just take Dorian. You do IHW, and afterward in the chantry there is a recruitment dialogue during the conversation with the advisors. At that point, you recruit him into the Inquisition and he is a full member. In that same IHW path, you meet Cole during In Your Heart Shall burn at the Haven gates, and then once at Skyhold, as Inquisitor, you have the opportunity to recruit him.

For the CotJ path, the opposite is true: you recruit Cole into the Inquisition at Haven, and then have the option with Dorian at Skyhold.

Regardless of which path you take, you recruit (or refuse) one of those two after their mission in Haven, and the other at Skyhold. So it's not "both" in a single play. But yes, unlike all the rest, these two have alternate recruitment conversations, depending on when you recruit them.
 

I can only recall Cole and Dorian's at the moment. For a Cole who has been made more human, Corypheus orally attempts some manipulation, and Cole refuses. If you heard this dialogue, Cole will reference it at the party and be like, "Did you see?! He wasn't able to control me!" (It's pretty adorable, actually.) For Dorian, Corypheus basically accuses him of being a traitor to Tevinter and Dorian responds that Corypheus's Tevinter isn't his Tevinter.

 

It is dependent on time. In one play, my Inquisitor didn't really do anything while the rest of the party pew-pew'd Corypheus, and I only got one of the dialogues to fire before he was dead; they were still too powerful, even without me helping.
 

The whole scene is done oddly. We're there with Solas and the broken orb, and then we leave to join everyone else. Where were they? Why isn't the Inquisitor's boy/girlfriend glomping onto them, saying, "WE'RE ALIVE!"?
 

I agree. Because of the pacing, the final fight with Corypheus just feels anti-climactic. It also doesn't help that several people have bits of dialogue, Josephine in particular, that act as if the end is nigh, when you could still go traipsing around the Hissing Wastes, or whatever other map you need to finish. This is the reason why I finish everything before going to the Arbor Wilds, so it flows better story-wise (I even wrote a guide!). But I think this is one of those game design decisions so there is a clear delineation for the player of when the ending is so they can feel free to wrap up whatever other content. And of course we get all of the unique follower dialogue post-mission, as we do for all of the missions.

 

Another example of Bull Knows Best   I guess it is good that someone addressed the Herald's possible leadership ability prior to reaching Skyhold. But did it have to be Super Spy Bull?

 

I might be misremembering the sequence, as I've played CotJ more than IHW and that's what I think of. But I'm fairly certain on that pathway, even though Cole appears to the Inquisition in Haven, he still has to be accepted into the Inquisition at Skyhold. I don't think the conversation about whether he's a demon or a spirit between Solas, Cass and Viv changes if we did IHW or CotJ. I saw it as "we can let the weird kid stay for now, we have to worry about evacuating Haven" rather than that we had recruited him.

 

So maybe doing IHW we don't have a secondary conversation with Dorian at Skyhold where we officially welcome him to the group.

 

 

I may have gotten Cole's dialogue in the final battle about Cory trying to bind him and it didn't work. It was hard to tell because the voices were muffled under the music and sound effects and I don't know that there were subtitles. But I consciously tried not to have the party attack Cory so that banter would trigger and I didn't get much apart from him dissing the IQ.

 

 

 

The whole end game sequence is just poorly paced. I do feel for Bioware, as they wouldn't want to devote too many resources to the ending if a significant portion of customers don't even finish the game. It's not the best business decision. But if they are going to continue to be named as the leader of narrative and character focused cRPGs, they need to realize that a rushed/poorly implemented ending is going to harm their overall reputation. I would think they learned that after ME3. I have the lingering feeling that they just don't have good project management and need to complete the main story segments before tackling side content.

[nightscrawl]

The Inquisitor probably took decorating advice from Josephine, the woman who wears a dress of shiny gold lamé. I bet the IQ has patterned underwear with the logo. One of my favorite banters was Sera mistaking the eye for Andraste's...holiness.

So is this a good time to promote my Skyhold attire mod where I actually added the eye to the jacket?

 

Spoiler