54 réponses à ce sujet

[Lezio]

I was thinking about this yesterday, as i went through the Frostback Basin. Obviously with the veil teared open demons just need to cross the breach..... but, from what we see in gameplay, there aren't really all that many demons who actually get through, plus with the veil as weak as it is and with the mages left to fend for themselves, wouldn't it make sense for the "smarter" demons, like, for example, the desire ones, to live the most stupid/brutish ones (rage, possibly pride) to fight over the Breach while they possess the living and "infiltrate" the waking world?

 

It would be kind of cool, in my opinion, if in DA4 it turns out that some demons actually did just this, so there are many "secret" abominations walking around

[The Ascendant]

The Veil has been so shattered that demons don't need hosts to possess. Not to mention most of the demons we fought were brought to Thedas against their will.

[thats1evildude]

Ironically, there is an abomination in Frostback Basin. Scout Grandin, who is a mage, has been possessed by a rage demon.

 

But there are a couple of places throughout the game where you encounter abominations; they just don't use the "abomination" model.

[AlanC9]

There's at least one other abomination in JoH. However, "abomination" is a culturally-specific term which isn't meaningful in Avvar society.

[thats1evildude]

For the sake of ease, I choose to define "abomination" as "evil, insane entity created by demonic possession." Uldred was an abomination; Wynne was not.

[Knight of Dane]

Ironically, there is an abomination in Frostback Basin. Scout Grandin, who is a mage, has been possessed by a rage demon.

 

But there are a couple of places throughout the game where you encounter abominations; they just don't use the "abomination" model.

To be honest that thing was kinda dumb too. I get that Demons have "evuhl" sprites for the world, but it always struck me as odd that all the "gross abominations" deformed in the same way regardless of gender, race, clothing etc.

 

At least Bioware didn't mess up like they did in 2. I still facepalm every time I run into Cullen and Wilmod the first time and Wilmod turns into a Shade and Abominations randomly spawn around him, rather than the other way around.

[thats1evildude]

The likelihood of an abomination appearing as its demon self corresponds to their power level, methinks.

 

There is value in abominations having a unique model, though, since you can give them unique attacks and abilities.

[In Exile]

To be honest that thing was kinda dumb too. I get that Demons have "evuhl" sprites for the world, but it always struck me as odd that all the "gross abominations" deformed in the same way regardless of gender, race, clothing etc.

At least Bioware didn't mess up like they did in 2. I still facepalm every time I run into Cullen and Wilmod the first time and Wilmod turns into a Shade and Abominations randomly spawn around him, rather than the other way around.

The DAO models had a specific reason - the mages were tortured and the possession was so violent that they mutated in this way. We see from Uldred (and Wynne, and Anders) that possession need not lead to physical mutation.

DA2 recycled them in lore breaking ways.

[Medhia_Nox]

@thats1evildude:  Sadly, they also don't use the abomination "creed".  They established a great mentality for abominations in The Broken Circle... then just ignored it for "reasons".  

[AlanC9]

@thats1evildude:  Sadly, they also don't use the abomination "creed".  They established a great mentality for abominations in The Broken Circle... then just ignored it for "reasons".

Well, the reason is that the Circle is full of it, but we knew that anyway in DA:O.

[thats1evildude]

@thats1evildude: Sadly, they also don't use the abomination "creed". They established a great mentality for abominations in The Broken Circle... then just ignored it for "reasons".

What do you mean by "creed"? I don't follow.

[GoldenGail3]

Because Bioware didn't put any models for Abominations in DAI.... 

[straykat]

The Veil has been so shattered that demons don't need hosts to possess. Not to mention most of the demons we fought were brought to Thedas against their will.

 

That's a good explanation, but you gotta admit.. it's pretty strange to not see them... in a game that is practically nothing but demon fighting.

 

It's also Cullen's excuse to be mad if you ally with the mages. And Vivienne's. But it amounts to nothing.

[Xerrai]

That's a good explanation, but you gotta admit.. it's pretty strange to not see them... in a game that is practically nothing but demon fighting.

 

It's also Cullen's excuse to be mad if you ally with the mages. And Vivienne's. But it amounts to nothing.

Yeah, and Cassandra also says something about abominations for her personal quest (alongside demons and renegade Templars/apostates), yet I do not think I even encountered one of these rampant abominations in the game.

 

In theory, it is because the breach is such 'easy access' to the waking world that forcefully taking bodies to experience the waking world has become obsolete as far as most demons are concerned. Yet with the drawbacks of the rifts including a limited wandering range, forceful twisting of its nature and so on, you would think there would be at least some demons who would view possession as the more palatable option.

 

But this seems to not be the case, as we literally never have a case of mage/person becoming possessed--not even in war table missions.

[Big I]

If you recruit the mages as allies both Vivienne and Cullen freak out because they think it likely that some of them will become possessed. Guess they're wrong though, since outside of one or two conversations before closing the Breach it never comes up. Then there was that Arcane Horror in the haunted mansion in the Emerald Graves; if you read the notes scattered around the house you learn that the whole situation was caused by one little girl being possessed, presumably by Pride or Desire.

 

It makes sense to me that there aren't any abominations in DA:I. Demons possess the living to get access to the physical world; why bother with that when you can enter it freely and unbound through a rift? Although most of the demons you kill in Inquisition are spirits that became demons because of the trauma of crossing the Veil.

[straykat]

This should cause a reassessment on the whole posession thing in general.

 

The problem exists, but the rampant nature of it? Sounds like b.s. Or something unique to Kirkwall's perfect storm of vile conditions.

 

That and the devs themselves probably just got sick of making mages so extreme.

[fhs33721]

There are some abominations. They just don't have the(if you ask me) stupid looking abominatoin-model used anymore.

 

In the Hissing wastes you can read a diary of a Venatori mage, who turns into an abomination after trying to summon demons way out of his league. The resulting abomination you fight looks like a Pride demon.

The haunted manison in the Emerald graves was also caused by a Demon (most likely a Desire demon since described as she by the girl) posessing a little mage girl. The model used for said abomination however is a Arcane horror.

Then in Jaws of Hakkon there is Gradin, who stays in human form afer becoming an abomination and then transforms into a classic Rage demon when battling him.

Plus the Leader of the Jaws of Hakkon becomes a abomination during the main Storyline of the DLC but uses the Revenant model.

Lastly Hakkon himsef is a Dragon-abomination and therefore uses a Dragon model.

 

That's at least all the evil abominations, I think. There are some more bening ones as well though. And since, they don't have any easily discernable model anymore, we of course can't know if some of the random demon mobs that are not close to a rift, aren't abominations either.

[straykat]

Arcane Horrors are supposed to be a type of abomination to begin with. Or at least, some are.

 

I agree that they exist.. they just don't seem to be an important problem anymore. When before, mages were fragile little flowers, who freaked out at a moment's notice from stress.

[fhs33721]

Arcane Horrors are supposed to be a type of abomination to begin with. Or at least, some are.

I think Arcane Horrors are posessed mage Corpses usually. Could remember that wong though.

[thats1evildude]

An arcane horror is a mage's corpse possessed by a powerful demon.

 

Nonetheless, the point stands: there are abominations in DAI, they just don't use the abomination model. I suspect it's because they look similar to Red Templar Horrors.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

[straykat]

OK, gotcha. I was half remembering the codex, about someone recognizing the previous mage when they saw an Arcane Horror. I forgot they were already dead.

 

What a strange choice though...

[Xerrai]

There are some abominations. They just don't have the(if you ask me) stupid looking abominatoin-model used anymore.

 

In the Hissing wastes you can read a diary of a Venatori mage, who turns into an abomination after trying to summon demons way out of his league. The resulting abomination you fight looks like a Pride demon.

The haunted manison in the Emerald graves was also caused by a Demon (most likely a Desire demon since described as she by the girl) posessing a little mage girl. The model used for said abomination however is a Arcane horror.

Then in Jaws of Hakkon there is Gradin, who stays in human form afer becoming an abomination and then transforms into a classic Rage demon when battling him.

Plus the Leader of the Jaws of Hakkon becomes a abomination during the main Storyline of the DLC but uses the Revenant model.

Lastly Hakkon himsef is a Dragon-abomination and therefore uses a Dragon model.

 

That's at least all the evil abominations, I think. There are some more bening ones as well though. And since, they don't have any easily discernable model anymore, we of course can't know if some of the random demon mobs that are not close to a rift, aren't abominations either.

 

Ok those last three I can understand, but I wasn't aware of the first ones. Not gonna lie, I always thought they were legit demons who utilized their connection to the world (via mages) to come out in the flesh, or the mages were killed and their resulting corpses were what was possessed (particularly in the case or arcane horrors).

 

So when we say "abominations" should we be looking for possessed beings that literally look like demons in and of themselves? Because I always thought that while abominations were connected with demons (you know that whole host-body relationship), the bodies themselves do not become demons even though a demon may be controlling the vessel.

[thats1evildude]

Technically, any living mortal possessed by a spirit could be classified as an "abomination." Lord Woolsey from the Hinterlands — a possessed goat — is an "abomination."

 

It's just that the term is generally used to refer to possessed mages that look like this. ie. Abomination Classic.

 

 

Spoiler

[straykat]

Technically, any mortal possessed by a spirit could be termed as an "abomination."

 

Nug abomination.

 

Assuming some spirits are just stupid enough to try it.

[Andromelek]

What about Sir Woolsey? He may be a goat, but he counts right?