54 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

What about Sir Woolsey? He may be a goat, but he counts right?

 

Ah that's right.

 

I killed that bastard on accident... then the rage demon came out.

[Xerrai]

Ah that's right.

 

I killed that bastard on accident... then the rage demon came out.

You know, I've always been curious about that.

 

Supposedly, anything can be possessed, but there must at least some fade connection in place for a possession to be viable. The veil can be thin, a ritual can be in place, the possession can happen via dream....

 

But then there's Woolsly. A ram that has been in a family's service for (presumably) years and pre-dates the breach. So that implies either the veil in redcliffe was thin enough for a demon's influence to be felt on a ram (of all things), or that rams have some connection to fade (via dreaming).

 

And that is fascinating. Because if a ram can dream, does that mean they have emotions complex enough to be of interest to demons?

[AutumnWitch]

You know, I've always been curious about that.

 

Supposedly, anything can be possessed, but there must at least some fade connection in place for a possession to be viable. The veil can be thin, a ritual can be in place, the possession can happen via dream....

 

But then there's Woolsly. A ram that has been in a family's service for (presumably) years and pre-dates the breach. So that implies either the veil in redcliffe was thin enough for a demon's influence to be felt on a ram (of all things), or that rams have some connection to fade (via dreaming).

 

And that is fascinating. Because if a ram can dream, does that mean they have emotions complex enough to be of interest to demons?

 

Don't forget a desire demon in DAO took the form of a cat, so we don't know if Woolsly was ever an actual ram or not.

[Swaggerjking]

I think abominations should really only be the mages that are fighting it or were more forcefully possessed so with no need to really trick so they need not be abominations then there is the bit with the nightmare demon that could apparently control demons but since the demons are in full control I would say they're abominations either

[Andromelek]

You know, I've always been curious about that.
 
Supposedly, anything can be possessed, but there must at least some fade connection in place for a possession to be viable. The veil can be thin, a ritual can be in place, the possession can happen via dream....
 
But then there's Woolsly. A ram that has been in a family's service for (presumably) years and pre-dates the breach. So that implies either the veil in redcliffe was thin enough for a demon's influence to be felt on a ram (of all things), or that rams have some connection to fade (via dreaming).
 
And that is fascinating. Because if a ram can dream, does that mean they have emotions complex enough to be of interest to demons?

As far as I know, only carnivores can dream while sleeping, herbivores often keep one hemisphere awake to be on guard....so is more likely that the demon is assuming the form of a ram or possessed one, it was a rage demon, they are known of possessing trees and becoming sylvans.

[Reznore57]

You've got all the dead in Crestwood and in the Fallow Mires.

They aren't abominations , because it's corpses who are posessed but hey they are spirits who crossed the veil and wore a dead meat suit.

[thats1evildude]

The Veil prevents spirits from affecting the mortal world; they can view the dreams of mortals but that's it. However, mages have a connection to the Fade, and are thus back doors that demons can use to enter the world. When a mage sends their conscious mind into the Fade, they can be possessed, but mages can also allow it to happen if they drop their guard.

 

Of course, demons and spirits can press on certain places in the Veil where much death has occurred and slip through. Once in this world, though, they're disoriented and tend to grab whatever vessel they can find: trees, corpses, animals, etc.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Veil has been so shattered that demons don't need hosts to possess. Not to mention most of the demons we fought were brought to Thedas against their will.

Except that still wouldn't stop demons from possessing others as they want experience human life, second reason would be that possessing mage increase their power.

 

Truth is that, in Inquistion realistically speaking we would see more abomnations than ever.Being in war would take it's tool on mages and fact they weren't supervised would lead to significant increase of blood mages as mages would be attracted to to very convenient now power and lack of lawful consequences of it. Sadly devs turned this whole copmplex conflict into very simplistic one.

[Lord Raijin]

I'm surprise to see that nobody has mention Cole. Sure hes the spirit of compassion, but the fact reminds is this. There was a human mage by the name of Cole in the white Spire who died in the dungeons from starvation due to neglect from the Templar's. The cries from this dying mage attracted the spirit and therefor that spirit started posing as him after the mage was deceased.... potentially taking on the physical form of the dead mage corpse.

 

Doesn't Cole's story remind you of someone?

[Medhia_Nox]

What do you mean by "creed"? I don't follow.

 

The abominations in "the Broken Circle" believed they were a master race. They believed they were something more than "demon" or "mage" - they were the evolution of both (at least according to them).  

 

Anyway - I didn't take that as Uldred's personal philosophy (since he didn't intend to become an abomination).

 

It was something I enjoyed - it was the standard they began the series with - but clearly it seems that is far more generic than that.  

[AlanC9]

No, it's more diverse than that. Different spirit results in a different abomination. Some aren't even abominable.

That was always the standard.

[German Soldier]

Technically, any living mortal possessed by a spirit could be classified as an "abomination."

 

 

 

Except the SW whom nobody know how powers work.

[Xerrai]

The abominations in "the Broken Circle" believed they were a master race. They believed they were something more than "demon" or "mage" - they were the evolution of both (at least according to them).  

 

Anyway - I didn't take that as Uldred's personal philosophy (since he didn't intend to become an abomination).

 

It was something I enjoyed - it was the standard they began the series with - but clearly it seems that is far more generic than that.  

Is it though?

Despite the lack of crazy abominations, the game does pose questions as to the nature of abominations. We have seen dragons, corpses and so on get possessed. There have even been codex entries that imply instances of possession. You know, typical enemies. 

But the focus (narrative wise, at least) seems to be more on what we don't know about abominations as opposed to showing stuff we already know.

 

Jaws of Hakkon in particular introduced something about abominations that we could never even conceive of previously: the notion of abominations being of value to particular cultures as a way to teach and manage their mages. As spirit communities that help their respective tribe(s). Then we had to fight a dragon abomination (essentially) who had powers that were unprecedented in comparison to prior abominations.

 

Instead of abominations becoming generic "they are people who became evil things", they have successfully broadened that definition to include stable and even helpful spirits who reside in a host body. Then they effectively opened up the potential further dangers of abominations with Hakkon Wintersbreath.

 

There is good with the bad. There are benefits with the costs. That is far from generic in my opinion.

[Andromelek]

This talk makes me wonder, people possessed by the soul of a dead being count as abominations? Or how we should categorize Flemeth and OGB Kieran?

[Xerrai]

This talk makes me wonder, people possessed by the soul of a dead being count as abominations? Or how we should categorize Flemeth and OGB Kieran?

They're kinda weird though. Typically when we think of abominations, we think of spirits (aka. fade denizens) as taking possession of a living person.

 

Despite essentially being possessed n one form of another, what they were possessed by are far from being considered spirits in the typical sense. One was possessed by a small part of an ancient evanuris, and OGB Kieran was possessed by the soul of a dragon (dragonborn!). None of these entities could really be considered fade spirits under typical circumstances, though.

 

So I think it is safe to say they are not 'true' abominations.

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm surprise to see that nobody has mention Cole. Sure hes the spirit of compassion, but the fact reminds is this. There was a human mage by the name of Cole in the white Spire who died in the dungeons from starvation due to neglect from the Templar's. The cries from this dying mage attracted the spirit and therefor that spirit started posing as him after the mage was deceased.... potentially taking on the physical form of the dead mage corpse.

 

Doesn't Cole's story remind you of someone?

Yeah, no one mentioned Cole... because the game hammers the fact that he's not any kind of abomination into your head multiple times.

 

Is it though?

Despite the lack of crazy abominations, the game does pose questions as to the nature of abominations. We have seen dragons, corpses and so on get possessed. There have even been codex entries that imply instances of possession. You know, typical enemies. 

But the focus (narrative wise, at least) seems to be more on what we don't know about abominations as opposed to showing stuff we already know.

 

Jaws of Hakkon in particular introduced something about abominations that we could never even conceive of previously: the notion of abominations being of value to particular cultures as a way to teach and manage their mages. As spirit communities that help their respective tribe(s). Then we had to fight a dragon abomination (essentially) who had powers that were unprecedented in comparison to prior abominations.

 

Instead of abominations becoming generic "they are people who became evil things", they have successfully broadened that definition to include stable and even helpful spirits who reside in a host body. Then they effectively opened up the potential further dangers of abominations with Hakkon Wintersbreath.

 

There is good with the bad. There are benefits with the costs. That is far from generic in my opinion.

They didn't actually broaden the definition, since that was the case since DA:O. Wynne and the Spirit of Hope.

[Xerrai]

They didn't actually broaden the definition, since that was the case since DA:O. Wynne and the Spirit of Hope.

That is true.

But with cases like Wynne and pre-corruption Anders, it was safely assumed that these were exceptionally rare cases that could almost never be replicated reliably. Exceptions to the rule, basically. They demonstrated the possibility, but never confirmed if it could be more than just a super rare occurrence.

 

It was only later that it was seemingly established that "benevolent" abominations could be fairly common under certain circumstances. Or at least that is how I saw it.

[Lezio]

They kind of explained, through Solas, just why the Avvar spirit+human combo mostly works. The Avvar think of spirit as beneficial beings, so they stay just even when they "merge" with them. "Expect a spirit to be a demon and it'll turn just into that" Wynne had that mentality too, i think

 

This also kind of "validated" my personal theory on what went wrong with Justice and Anders. The theory being that when a spirit decides to enter into the body of a human, or is otherwise "corrupted" by the waking world (like Justice was because of the whole Kristoff debacle) it starts to turn into a demon. Even Cole risked such a thing, and i would argue he resisted only because he's awesome he genuinely thought to be the real "Cole", and when he discovered the truth someone helped him deal with it. Plus compassion, i imagine, is much less complicated than, say, justice, which is an absolute concept ideally but a much more grey one realistically

[Medhia_Nox]

Is it though?

Despite the lack of crazy abominations, the game does pose questions as to the nature of abominations. We have seen dragons, corpses and so on get possessed. There have even been codex entries that imply instances of possession. You know, typical enemies. 

But the focus (narrative wise, at least) seems to be more on what we don't know about abominations as opposed to showing stuff we already know.

 

Jaws of Hakkon in particular introduced something about abominations that we could never even conceive of previously: the notion of abominations being of value to particular cultures as a way to teach and manage their mages. As spirit communities that help their respective tribe(s). Then we had to fight a dragon abomination (essentially) who had powers that were unprecedented in comparison to prior abominations.

 

Instead of abominations becoming generic "they are people who became evil things", they have successfully broadened that definition to include stable and even helpful spirits who reside in a host body. Then they effectively opened up the potential further dangers of abominations with Hakkon Wintersbreath.

 

There is good with the bad. There are benefits with the costs. That is far from generic in my opinion.

 

I don't mind the things they added at all.  The Avvar are a fascinating culture.  

 

But for me... nothing ever gets developed in Dragon Age.  Nothing really gets fully explored before we're not to "new new new!"  

 

I found the idea of Abominations being an evolution of Spirit/Mage an interesting concept.  I was actually hoping to see an entire faction of "Master Race" Abominations grabbing up mages during DA:I.  

 

I understand people's feeling of exploration of Thedas in these games... but I feel it grossly undermines the actual world in favor for the player.  People of Thedas should have explored and understood these concepts ages ago.  

 

That not one, or ten, but dozens of concepts from DA:O have been upturned in three games is not, for me, discovery... but lack of commitment to any concept.  

 

Less is more for me.  I feel there is a glut of "stuff" now just trying to be packed into appear complex.  

 

But, I admitted that the Broken Circle abominations were just another idea shuffled to the side for... whatever... and moved on.  I don't commit to Dragon Age concepts now... I just go with what's shown and deal with it and then move on knowing that in the next game they're just going to chance everything all over again.

[AresKeith]

The likelihood of an abomination appearing as its demon self corresponds to their power level, methinks.

 

There is value in abominations having a unique model, though, since you can give them unique attacks and abilities.

 

Would be cool to see each abomination have their own form

[straykat]

You know, I've always been curious about that.

 

Supposedly, anything can be possessed, but there must at least some fade connection in place for a possession to be viable. The veil can be thin, a ritual can be in place, the possession can happen via dream....

 

But then there's Woolsly. A ram that has been in a family's service for (presumably) years and pre-dates the breach. So that implies either the veil in redcliffe was thin enough for a demon's influence to be felt on a ram (of all things), or that rams have some connection to fade (via dreaming).

 

And that is fascinating. Because if a ram can dream, does that mean they have emotions complex enough to be of interest to demons?

 

That whole area is a little funky maybe. The Valor spirit has that sword in the lake, near where Lord Woolsey is trotting about.. he might be the same dude from the Circle origin story. Maybe the fall of the circle caused a lot of trauma in the area before.

[thats1evildude]

I think you put too much stock in the ravings of a lunatic, Medhia Nox. Uldred was insane. There was nothing "better" about him, he was just more evil.

[The Ascendant]

While it is a nice idea to have peaceful coexistence between a spirit and a Mage when one is possessed. A Mage gets power and a unique perspective of the Fade, a Spirit gets a physical form and experiences Thedas, we just don't know enough to make it feasible. Wynne is perhaps the best example, her Spirit of Faith helping her and extending her life, even saving Evangeline's as well, but then you have Anders whose anger changed the Spirit of Justice into a Demon of Vengeance. In short we don't know enough to make it work.

[In Exile]

The abominations in "the Broken Circle" believed they were a master race. They believed they were something more than "demon" or "mage" - they were the evolution of both (at least according to them).

Anyway - I didn't take that as Uldred's personal philosophy (since he didn't intend to become an abomination).

It was something I enjoyed - it was the standard they began the series with - but clearly it seems that is far more generic than that.

That was just the pride demon being proud of what it became. It wasn't a creed. It was just vanity. DAO didn't intend to portray that as a viewpoint.

[BansheeOwnage]

While it is a nice idea to have peaceful coexistence between a spirit and a Mage when one is possessed. A Mage gets power and a unique perspective of the Fade, a Spirit gets a physical form and experiences Thedas, we just don't know enough to make it feasible. Wynne is perhaps the best example, her Spirit of Faith helping her and extending her life, even saving Evangeline's as well, but then you have Anders whose anger changed the Spirit of Justice into a Demon of Vengeance. In a we don't know enough to make it work.

The Avvar can make it work most of time, so that's something.