Just so we're not confused the aesthetic of Dragon Age is basically "Canada."
I'm not saying that's good or bad, or what they should do, but this is silly to discuss it in a "lore" context. Dragon Age characters basically generally just look like an average (i.e. in the norm) "Canadian" (whatever that term even means)
Just so we're not confused the aesthetic of Dragon Age is basically "Canada."
I'm not saying that's good or bad, or what they should do, but this is silly to discuss it in a "lore" context. Dragon Age characters basically generally just look like an average (i.e. in the norm) "Canadian" (whatever that term even means)
I'm Canadian and we're multicultural. So the word you were looking for was multicultural.
I hope they make a race of dark skinned baddies. Let's see people squirm, not knowing whether to praise BW for muh representation or call them racists.
I hope they make a race of dark skinned baddies. Let's see people squirm, not knowing whether to praise BW for muh representation or call them racists.
Praise? No way! Someone will always find something to huffed. If nothing else, then I ... 
I hope they make a race of dark skinned baddies. Let's see people squirm, not knowing whether to praise BW for muh representation or call them racists.
Don't encourage bigotry.
I do wonder if in Origins and DA2 they meant to have different skin colors for NPCs but couldn't. It did feel kind of strange having so many dark-skinned people coming out of nowhere in Inquisition. I mean, i think i read somewhere that the only people, in lore, who are are supposed to have dark skin are the Rivainis? Or did they simply mean they are tanned?
The qunari have a similiar issue, i think, but about the hair. Since DA2 literally every qunari had white hair (and i think in the comics too) while in Trespasser the viddasala has red-hair (which kind of goes against Bull's "you have read-heads" comment now that i think about it
)
Both DAO and DA2 are known for having game engine issues with regard to dark skin tones and it was a limiting factor, yes.
However, there are times when the developers just sit back and say, "Look at some of these crowd shots. Why are all the faces white?" and then make adjustments. This happened in DAI as well with female characters. In this case, DAI was also aided because the Frostbite engine was just better at making dark skin tones.
Both DAO and DA2 are known for having game engine issues with regard to dark skin tones and it was a limiting factor, yes.
However, there are times when the developers just sit back and say, "Look at some of these crowd shots. Why are all the faces white?" and then make adjustments. This happened in DAI as well with female characters. In this case, DAI was also aided because the Frostbite engine was just better at making dark skin tones.
oh really 
http://vignette4.wik...=20100405005711
and they have no problem in Kotor and Neverwinter too
let be honest they does not have those and never think as never have explanation to add darkskinned humans, rivaini as antivans and some tevinters humans was tanned and thats all, every tanned human was from a north or corcari for those who live in south lands, they never have darkskinned ones and it was by the lore that all human race was arrive in Thedas from a single source and later they spreads in Thedas
the only darkskinned race was a kossiths/qunari
it is not a matter of engine, they never have those in art and concepts as lore, and yeah bioware just add something for a presentation and "fill a quota" thing
they add them only after some peoples start to complain that they does not show them so we have them in DAI and only Vivienne(who originally was a blonde pale evil mage with poisons and politic assasination) at least have a official rivain origin, with others it was just "change someone so they would have a darkskin and do not care about some lore, biology, logic and sense...all what is matter that we do not hear about that we do not have darkskinned humans in game"
Of course, you could do dark skintone character, but you could not see well the character's facial features. Just put near your linked screensot a light skin tone character's screenshot: you will see, what i said.
they add them only after some peoples start to complain that they does not show them so we have them in DAI and only Vivienne(who originally was a blonde pale evil mage with poisons and politic assasination) at least have a official rivain origin,
First of all; The only instance I know of Vivienne as "a blonde pale" was from a fake screenshot that was edited to make her appear as such and her concept art seem to suggest a non-caucasian design so I do question this claim. Could you provide evidence of it?
oh really
http://vignette4.wik...=20100405005711
and they have no problem in Kotor and Neverwinter too
let be honest they does not have those and never think as never have explanation to add darkskinned humans, rivaini as antivans and some tevinters humans was tanned and thats all, every tanned human was from a north or corcari for those who live in south lands, they never have darkskinned ones and it was by the lore that all human race was arrive in Thedas from a single source and later they spreads in Thedas
the only darkskinned race was a kossiths/qunari
it is not a matter of engine, they never have those in art and concepts as lore, and yeah bioware just add something for a presentation and "fill a quota" thing
they add them only after some peoples start to complain that they does not show them so we have them in DAI and only Vivienne(who originally was a blonde pale evil mage with poisons and politic assasination) at least have a official rivain origin, with others it was just "change someone so they would have a darkskin and do not care about some lore, biology, logic and sense...all what is matter that we do not hear about that we do not have darkskinned humans in game"
Second of all; In Origins, Duncan and Isabela were not tanned, they had dark skin;
Here's an image comparison between Zevran and Isabela; http://static.giantb...evranbetter.png (Zevran) & http://i52.tinypic.com/10dth8h.jpg (Isabela)
Here's an image comparison between Zevran and Duncan; http://static.giantb...evranbetter.png (Zevran) & https://staticdelive...-1259253143.jpg (Duncan)
The non-horned Qunari were not the only dark-skinned people to be found in the first game.
Third of all; I do not believe we have confirmation that humans came from a single source, only that some scholars in-universe believe that they came from the rainforests of Par Volen. While I do not remember the science of it, I also think that coming from the same place would not mean that different skin tones could not develop.
Neverwinter 1 (Aurora engine) and Kotor (Odyssey engine which is an updated modified Aurora engine ) used a different game engine from DAO (Eclipse engine) and DA2 (Lycium engine with is an updated heavily modified Eclipse engine).
The Eclipse engine had problems with dark skin tones even after being heavily modified for DA2 Bioware still could not produce dark skin tones well for character creation in DAO, DA2 was better.
The Frostbite engine works much better with dark skin tones..
First of all; The only instance I know of Vivienne as "a blonde pale" was from a fake screenshot that was edited to make her appear as such and her concept art seem to suggest a non-caucasian design so I do question this claim. Could you provide evidence of it?
I don't agree with the quoted poster's premise, but they ARE right about that; Vivienne was originally a pale, blonde ice queen type of character. But it doesn't really mean anything. Iron Bull was once female. Dorian was also more Caucasian looking. ALL of the characters go through numerous designs and iterations before artists and writers are all happy with the end result; it's very much a collaborative effort during the character creation process. So it's simply not "let's just make Vivienne black because we have to fulfill a quota."
In the end, that the initial design was a pale, blonde ice queen doesn't mean anything. They settled on something else and we have the Vivienne we have today.
It's been mentioned elsewhere, but David Gaider talks about it in a presentation about creating diverse characters at a game dev conference (the video is about halfway down).
[...].
It's been mentioned elsewhere, but David Gaider talks about it in a presentation about creating diverse characters at a game dev conference (the video is about halfway down).
(I have not seen this video, it was interesting, thanks.)
ALL of the characters go through numerous designs and iterations before artists and writers are all happy with the end result; it's very much a collaborative effort during the character creation process.
See also: Sera concept art with a much darker skin tone, Merrill's ever-changing hair and Fenris looking like about twenty completely different people.
I don't agree with the quoted poster's premise, but they ARE right about that; Vivienne was originally a pale, blonde ice queen type of character. But it doesn't really mean anything. Iron Bull was once female. Dorian was also more Caucasian looking. ALL of the characters go through numerous designs and iterations before artists and writers are all happy with the end result; it's very much a collaborative effort during the character creation process. So it's simply not "let's just make Vivienne black because we have to fulfill a quota."
In the end, that the initial design was a pale, blonde ice queen doesn't mean anything. They settled on something else and we have the Vivienne we have today.
It's been mentioned elsewhere, but David Gaider talks about it in a presentation about creating diverse characters at a game dev conference (the video is about halfway down).
Often the communication between the art team and the writers is not quite lined up. See that drawing of Merrill as this super dark type of character, that's just so patently ridiculous knowing what we know about her character. But with a description of e.g. "renegade Dalish blood mage", you might well get:
I don't agree with the quoted poster's premise, but they ARE right about that; Vivienne was originally a pale, blonde ice queen type of character. But it doesn't really mean anything. Iron Bull was once female. Dorian was also more Caucasian looking. ALL of the characters go through numerous designs and iterations before artists and writers are all happy with the end result; it's very much a collaborative effort during the character creation process. So it's simply not "let's just make Vivienne black because we have to fulfill a quota."
In the end, that the initial design was a pale, blonde ice queen doesn't mean anything. They settled on something else and we have the Vivienne we have today.
It's been mentioned elsewhere, but David Gaider talks about it in a presentation about creating diverse characters at a game dev conference (the video is about halfway down).
WAT
WAT
Often the communication between the art team and the writers is not quite lined up. See that drawing of Merrill as this super dark type of character, that's just so patently ridiculous knowing what we know about her character. But with a description of e.g. "renegade Dalish blood mage", you might well get:
Spoiler
I hope they make a race of dark skinned baddies. Let's see people squirm, not knowing whether to praise BW for muh representation or call them racists.
No one will squirm. This is not exactly uncommon in media, and you don't see people lining up praising those movies for their pro-social message. You're doing to have go get more sophisticated in your trolling wishes.
I don't know much about Forgotten Realms lore outside of BG, but I'm really surprised that the Drow were allowed as a thing. Really? We have the only evil elf race as dark skinned? I'm sure there was justification that they're not analogous to RL, what with their white hair and being elves, not humans. But if we're speaking biologically, shouldn't the cave dwelling races actually be pale white due to lack of sun? It's like saying when the Drow split off, they were marked as evil by having dark skin.
I'm actually more opposed to the idea of entire races being evil or matching a specific alignment, but that's an issue I have with FR as a whole. It's extremely simplified and unrealistic. I guess we need that in a setting where the gods directly grant spells and we can visit the planes where the dead reside. Makes me glad for the more mature DA setting.
I can't make out whatever that picture is.
It's Tamlen, all ghouled up and pretty.
Here is a clearer picture of him, on the left.
I don't know much about Forgotten Realms lore outside of BG, but I'm really surprised that the Drow were allowed as a thing. Really? We have the only evil elf race as dark skinned? I'm sure there was justification that they're not analogous to RL, what with their white hair and being elves, not humans. But if we're speaking biologically, shouldn't the cave dwelling races actually be pale white due to lack of sun? It's like saying when the Drow split off, they were marked as evil by having dark skin.
I'm actually more opposed to the idea of entire races being evil or matching a specific alignment, but that's an issue I have with FR as a whole. It's extremely simplified and unrealistic. I guess we need that in a setting where the gods directly grant spells and we can visit the planes where the dead reside. Makes me glad for the more mature DA setting.
Well actually The Drow's skin is black due to a curse from Corellon. His consort Araushnee (aka Lolth) rebelled against him along with their son Vhaeraun and lead her followers in a civil war so she could become the major power of the Elven Pantheon instead of Corellon, even tricking their daughter Eilistraee into attacking him with a bow. Sehanine saved Corellon, Araushnee and her followers (including Vhaeraun) were defeated and as a punishment Corellon cursed the all of them, turning their hair white and their skin black before banishing them from the surface world. Eilistraee begged to be punished as well despite Corellon's protests, arguing someone had to counterbalance her mother's and brother's evilness and offer a spot of hope for all non-evil Drow. Anyway the Drow's skin has nothing to do with biology - it's the result of a curse from a Greater Deity. Other races from the Underdark have more pale/grayish skins, as far as I remember.
I don't know much about Forgotten Realms lore outside of BG, but I'm really surprised that the Drow were allowed as a thing. Really? We have the only evil elf race as dark skinned? I'm sure there was justification that they're not analogous to RL, what with their white hair and being elves, not humans. But if we're speaking biologically, shouldn't the cave dwelling races actually be pale white due to lack of sun? It's like saying when the Drow split off, they were marked as evil by having dark skin.
I'm actually more opposed to the idea of entire races being evil or matching a specific alignment, but that's an issue I have with FR as a whole. It's extremely simplified and unrealistic. I guess we need that in a setting where the gods directly grant spells and we can visit the planes where the dead reside. Makes me glad for the more mature DA setting.
The drow were black skinned before they were ever exiled into the Underdark. And they are not an inheritantly evil race actually. There are those in the Underdark that are evil of course, but there is an entirely different offshoot of them that follow the Goddess Eillistrae that are actually more good natured. Then there are a few examples of drow that are actually from the Underdark that rebelled against their evil natured society. Drizzt Do'Urden, Zaknafein Do'Urden, Liriel Baenrae, even Jarlaxle. That last though is not so much a rebellion though as just a dude that loves to play.
I never once saw the drow and thought that they in any way represented black people in real life, personally. It actually surprised me when I first heard that parallel being made. I thought it was silly at the time personally. They are not just dark skinned, their skin is a pure black.
Sorry, a bit off topic but the fantasy nerd in me reared it's head when I heard someone talking about the drow.
Well actually The Drow's skin is black due to a curse from Corellon. His consort Araushnee (aka Lolth) rebelled against him along with their son Vhaeraun and lead her followers in a civil war so she could become the major power of the Elven Pantheon instead of Corellon, even tricking their daughter Eilistraee into attacking him with a bow. Sehanine saved Corellon, Araushnee and her followers (including Vhaeraun) were defeated and as a punishment Corellon cursed the all of them, turning their hair white and their skin black before banishing them from the surface world. Eilistraee begged to be punished as well despite Corellon's protests, arguing someone had to counterbalance her mother's and brother's evilness and offer a spot of hope for all non-evil Drow. Anyway the Drow's skin has nothing to do with biology - it's the result of a curse from a Greater Deity. Other races from the Underdark have more pale/grayish skins, as far as I remember.
Thanks for the background. I feel it's still strange because while black is often used to represent evil in many pieces of work, it becomes more complicated when involving skin color. I can see if they're going with "black represents evil so this race was cursed to be black to show their fall from grace" but...that is still indicating that someone with black skin is an indication that they're evil. I don't think the creators of the drow meant to allude to this, but I think it demonstrates the lack of diversity in the writers that this didn't even cross their minds. It feels similar to how game developers would genuinely be surprised that players would ask for LGBT romances, because they just thought their audience was straight and didn't even consider that there is another audience.
The drow were black skinned before they were ever exiled into the Underdark. And they are not an inheritantly evil race actually. There are those in the Underdark that are evil of course, but there is an entirely different offshoot of them that follow the Goddess Eillistrae that are actually more good natured. Then there are a few examples of drow that are actually from the Underdark that rebelled against their evil natured society. Drizzt Do'Urden, Zaknafein Do'Urden, Liriel Baenrae, even Jarlaxle. That last though is not so much a rebellion though as just a dude that loves to play.
I never once saw the drow and thought that they in any way represented black people in real life, personally. It actually surprised me when I first heard that parallel being made. I thought it was silly at the time personally. They are not just dark skinned, their skin is a pure black.
Sorry, a bit off topic but the fantasy nerd in me reared it's head when I heard someone talking about the drow.
Again, I am not big on FR lore, but I thought the original idea of Drizzt was that he was the only good drow, and that was what made him such a hero and unique in the realms. I don't know if there were later lore retcons or Drizzt just didn't know about Ellistrae or what. When were other good drow introduced to canon?
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