75 réponses à ce sujet

[IllustriousT]

I choose the removal of the Veil - a rebirth of the world into its natural state. 

[Gervaise]

I'm not saying I would choose the Qun personally.    I'm too inclined to challenge the status quo and so would end up being forcibly re-educated, probably regarded as a hopeless case and fed qamek just like a mage.   My mundane character would probably do just as well under the magical regime because they would make themselves useful despite their lack of magic.    Since I generally play elves for all I know they would recover their magic on dropping the Veil, even if it wasn't as strong as those who had always been mages.    Whether I had magic or not, I'd be happy enough under a benign mageocracy and find a way to survive under tyrants.

 

I just feel that Dorian is probably right when he asks just how much freedom does a person in abject poverty actually have?   Invariably, whatever the system, you will have those who are natural leaders who take charge  and the majority who are happy to follow and to a large extent be told what to do, so long as they are comfortable, well fed and not subject to abuse.     The lower orders who have grown up under the Qun are generally better treated than those in the rest of Thedas and at least the law applies equally to all.   However, anyone born outside the Qun is not going to see it that way, particularly if they are from higher up the social scale because they will have enjoyed the greatest freedoms and will have the most to lose.    On the other hand, a downtrodden peasant might well prefer the restrictions of the Qun to a life lived under mage lords in a world of magic.  

[The Baconer]

Spite is one of the most powerful and beautiful forces in the universe.

Better to destroy the world than let them have it.

[Almostfaceman]

Crap, I'm just not going to have enough likes for this thread. Will run out way too fast. 

[LightningPoodle]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Qun. Isn't real life somewhat like the Qun? You don't "really" get a choice in what you do in life. They say you do, but you don't really. You start life and immediately you are shaped into someone that fits society - just like the Qunari do. You go to school, you take your exams, you get your grades and these determine exactly what you do for the rest of your life. You can't become an astronaut if you don't get the right grades. You can't become a doctor if you don't get the right qualifications. Again, they say you have choices, but you don't really. Only luck will give you something more than what you deserve. That sounds rather Qunari to me. Not the luck bit. The, the education determines your place in society. (I'm talking real folk. Not the celebrities and billionaires that are born into wealth and power).

 

Going further, you choose to obey the laws that your country has placed upon you. If you do not obey the laws, you go to jail or you get punished in some way. That again sounds very Qunari to me.

 

To me, living under the Qun would be no different to living as I do now. I'd just have fewer opportunities to disagree with who is giving the orders. And anyway, why would I disagree? Because of morality? Morality is nothing more than a construct built and implanted from the moment we are born. Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But who determines what is good and bad in the first place?

[dawnstone]

I just can't reconcile how the Qunari do love and sex with how I was raised.

 

Sorry, I don't want to have to make an appointment with the doctor(Tamarassan) any time I need to get off. And I'd rather not be a brood mare if they decide that is my lot in life, because I have good genes and a sturdy body, and then have the Qun take my kid away to be raised by the Tamrassans.

 

And let's not think about what would happen if I was born a mage.

 

Thank you, but no thank you.

[Catilina]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Qun. Isn't real life somewhat like the Qun? You don't "really" get a choice in what you do in life. They say you do, but you don't really. You start life and immediately you are shaped into someone that fits society - just like the Qunari do. You go to school, you take your exams, you get your grades and these determine exactly what you do for the rest of your life. You can't become an astronaut if you don't get the right grades. You can't become a doctor if you don't get the right qualifications. Again, they say you have choices, but you don't really. Only luck will give you something more than what you deserve. That sounds rather Qunari to me. Not the luck bit. The, the education determines your place in society. (I'm talking real folk. Not the celebrities and billionaires that are born into wealth and power).

 

Going further, you choose to obey the laws that your country has placed upon you. If you do not obey the laws, you go to jail or you get punished in some way. That again sounds very Qunari to me.

 

To me, living under the Qun would be no different to living as I do now. I'd just have fewer opportunities to disagree with who is giving the orders. And anyway, why would I disagree? Because of morality? Morality is nothing more than a construct built and implanted from the moment we are born. Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But who determines what is good and bad in the first place?

 

This is a very cynical viewpoint. I like it...

 

But, seriously:

You have a real, or at least an apparent choice. If that chance anyone take away from you, you feel bad. Very bad. Not the most important thing is that you actually do what you want, but to feel this possibility. The option is important.

 

Man has free will. Can't be accepted if there deprived from.

[Shechinah]

I will take the reboot. The Qun seems too much North Korea for me.

 

Nah, not even the Qun is that bad.

[Almostfaceman]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Qun. Isn't real life somewhat like the Qun? You don't "really" get a choice in what you do in life. They say you do, but you don't really. You start life and immediately you are shaped into someone that fits society - just like the Qunari do. You go to school, you take your exams, you get your grades and these determine exactly what you do for the rest of your life. You can't become an astronaut if you don't get the right grades. You can't become a doctor if you don't get the right qualifications. Again, they say you have choices, but you don't really. Only luck will give you something more than what you deserve. That sounds rather Qunari to me. Not the luck bit. The, the education determines your place in society. (I'm talking real folk. Not the celebrities and billionaires that are born into wealth and power).

 

Going further, you choose to obey the laws that your country has placed upon you. If you do not obey the laws, you go to jail or you get punished in some way. That again sounds very Qunari to me.

 

To me, living under the Qun would be no different to living as I do now. I'd just have fewer opportunities to disagree with who is giving the orders. And anyway, why would I disagree? Because of morality? Morality is nothing more than a construct built and implanted from the moment we are born. Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But who determines what is good and bad in the first place?

 

Well since you can't determine what is good and bad, I can't see any reason you'd be able to pick between the Solas or Qun choice. 

[Almostfaceman]

This is a very cynical viewpoint. I like it...

 

But, seriously:

You have a real, or at least an apparent choice. If that chance anyone take away from you, you feel bad. Very bad. Not the most important thing is that you actually do what you want, but to feel this possibility. The option is important.

 

Man has free will. Can't be accepted if there deprived from.

 

 

Free guys get the cool face paint. 

[Medhia_Nox]

So, if you had to pick between the Qunari conquering the world, or Solas getting rid of the Veil which would you pick? 

 

We don't know everything about Solas's plan to lower the Veil, so this is just based on what we know. 

 

I for one would prefer to see the world reboot without the Veil rather than see it under the heel of the Qunari. 

 

With the Veil gone, all surviving creatures regain their natural conscious connection to the Fade, if applicable. Magical wonders like the Crossroads could again be created and utilized. New magical tools against the Blight could be made possible. Surviving races could get a chance to learn from past mistakes and take different paths moving forward. 

 

With the Qun, everyone's a number. A worker ant in an ant hive. That's no way to live. 

 

 

 

This is purely hypothetical, I'm not implying this is a choice we may have to make later on in the Dragon Age story. 

 

Because the Qunari struggle can have some analogues to real life experiences - I will take that. 

 

The Veil thing is just - for me - magic glut. 

[Iakus]

So, if you had to pick between the Qunari conquering the world, or Solas getting rid of the Veil which would you pick? 

 

We don't know everything about Solas's plan to lower the Veil, so this is just based on what we know. 

 

I for one would prefer to see the world reboot without the Veil rather than see it under the heel of the Qunari. 

 

With the Veil gone, all surviving creatures regain their natural conscious connection to the Fade, if applicable. Magical wonders like the Crossroads could again be created and utilized. New magical tools against the Blight could be made possible. Surviving races could get a chance to learn from past mistakes and take different paths moving forward. 

 

With the Qun, everyone's a number. A worker ant in an ant hive. That's no way to live. 

 

 

 

This is purely hypothetical, I'm not implying this is a choice we may have to make later on in the Dragon Age story. 

Given the facts we have right now, so it is subject to change, I'd choose domination by the Qun.

 

Why?  Because the Qun is a mortal threat.  Far better chance of being able to throw it off later.  Heck, Tal-Vashoth exist now.  

 

With the Veil down, it's entirely possible that all of Thedas dies.  No coming back from that.

[Catilina]

[...]

 

With the Veil down, it's entirely possible that all of Thedas dies.  No coming back from that.

Possible. Not sure.

[Andromelek]

Not all Thedas, there was life even before the veil.

[Iakus]

Not all Thedas, there was life even before the veil.

There was.  But Solas admitted that removing the Veil could kill everyone, and that it was a chance he was willing to take.

 

But it's not one I'm willing to.

[Andromelek]

There was.  But Solas admitted that removing the Veil could kill everyone, and that it was a chance he was willing to take.
 
But it's not one I'm willing to.

I think that "everyone" only includes the current nations (and even that way I think that powerful mages and dreamers might be able to resist), otherwise would be a sucide for Solas and any remaining Ancient elf, I also doubt that Dragons, Titans and stuff would be killed if they used to live without the Veil.

[LightningPoodle]

Well since you can't determine what is good and bad, I can't see any reason you'd be able to pick between the Solas or Qun choice. 

 

I am not saying I cannot determine what is good and bad, right and wrong. I am saying that it is society that has told me what is good and bad and right and wrong. I have had no choice in the matter, and yet those outlines are what determine my moral compass.

 

Tell me, growing up, did your parent or teacher ever tell you "you should take things that don't belong to you" or, "you should apologise because that's what we do when we've done a bad thing"? That is society, the people around you, telling you what is right and wrong. Does the law in your country say that it is illegal to kill another human being? Does the country you live in tell you to get a job in order to pay taxes because that is the right thing to do?

 

Being a part of the Qun would be no different to you being a part of civilisation right now. Tell me you understand this?

[lynroy]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Qun. Isn't real life somewhat like the Qun? You don't "really" get a choice in what you do in life. They say you do, but you don't really. You start life and immediately you are shaped into someone that fits society - just like the Qunari do. You go to school, you take your exams, you get your grades and these determine exactly what you do for the rest of your life. You can't become an astronaut if you don't get the right grades. You can't become a doctor if you don't get the right qualifications. Again, they say you have choices, but you don't really. Only luck will give you something more than what you deserve. That sounds rather Qunari to me. Not the luck bit. The, the education determines your place in society. (I'm talking real folk. Not the celebrities and billionaires that are born into wealth and power).

 

Going further, you choose to obey the laws that your country has placed upon you. If you do not obey the laws, you go to jail or you get punished in some way. That again sounds very Qunari to me.

 

To me, living under the Qun would be no different to living as I do now. I'd just have fewer opportunities to disagree with who is giving the orders. And anyway, why would I disagree? Because of morality? Morality is nothing more than a construct built and implanted from the moment we are born. Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But who determines what is good and bad in the first place?

I can choose if I want to go to school. I can choose to do the best I can in school. I can choose to slack off. I can choose to strive to meet the required qualifications for the profession of my choosing. I can have a midlife crisis and switch careers from carpenter to prison guard. I can forgo school altogether and make a career as a working blue collar individual. I have choices. My choices are also effected by the choices made by others around me. All of these give me life experiences that I might not get the chance to have under the Qun.

Also, Qamek is terrifying to me. No one should ever have their free will taken away in such a fashion.

[Almostfaceman]

I am not saying I cannot determine what is good and bad, right and wrong. I am saying that it is society that has told me what is good and bad and right and wrong. I have had no choice in the matter, and yet those outlines are what determine my moral compass.

 

Tell me, growing up, did your parent or teacher ever tell you "you should take things that don't belong to you" or, "you should apologise because that's what we do when we've done a bad thing"? That is society, the people around you, telling you what is right and wrong. Does the law in your country say that it is illegal to kill another human being? Does the country you live in tell you to get a job in order to pay taxes because that is the right thing to do?

 

Being a part of the Qun would be no different to you being a part of civilisation right now. Tell me you understand this?

 

Eh, I think a lot can be observed from when we are young. Without training, we don't like people taking our toys. We consider it wrong. We don't like people telling us what to do. We like our freedom. We don't like being treated like we're not important, we want to socialize as equals. We don't like people hurting or killing us, we like to live, eat good food, watch our cartoons, learn what makes the sky blue.

 

Governmental structures that recognize these basic things about us, our individuality and potential, our capability to overcome our own problems and create opportunities, our desires to explore our own paths and set our own priorities, our desire to remain unique even though we must cooperate... governmental structures like these flourish.

 

Governmental structures that inhibit individuality and freedom die, their citizens rebelling or fleeing to less oppressive regimes. They deny our very basic needs, our individuality. These structures can't cope with the reality of who we are. 

[The Baconer]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Qun. Isn't real life somewhat like the Qun?

No. Not even superficially, to be honest. This just seems like cynicism and relativity for its own sake.

[correctamundo]

Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.

 

or

 

I'd rather die free than live as a slave.

[stop_him]

Well, no Veil would be more interesting.

[Macha'Anu]

Thats actually a hard one to answer. I would guess I would take the reboot over the invasion... Though both equally suck lol

[Hellion Rex]

So, if you had to pick between the Qunari conquering the world, or Solas getting rid of the Veil which would you pick? 

 

We don't know everything about Solas's plan to lower the Veil, so this is just based on what we know. 

 

I for one would prefer to see the world reboot without the Veil rather than see it under the heel of the Qunari. 

 

With the Veil gone, all surviving creatures regain their natural conscious connection to the Fade, if applicable. Magical wonders like the Crossroads could again be created and utilized. New magical tools against the Blight could be made possible. Surviving races could get a chance to learn from past mistakes and take different paths moving forward. 

 

With the Qun, everyone's a number. A worker ant in an ant hive. That's no way to live. 

 

 

 

This is purely hypothetical, I'm not implying this is a choice we may have to make later on in the Dragon Age story. 

As of now, I'd argue Qunari, cause what we know right now is that the Veil coming down means the end of the world for most humans and non-elves. We can fight the Qunari. I wouldn't know how to begin fighting the Veil coming down.

[Giantdeathrobot]

A Veil-less world actually sounds rather fascinating. Of course, the whole kill-almost-everyone-currently-living thing sucks a lot, and given Solas's track record we have no guarantees that his plan will not fail in an hilariously catastrophic way.

 

A Qunari-led world wouldn't be good. But I don't think it would be as bad as Solas's pseudo-apocalypse. Perhaps the Qun is open to reform from within. No reform from being dead.