74 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

Just popping by on iPad to say I would have KILLED for bisexual Blackwall lol

[Qun00]

Well I am a straight male I did the romance of blackwall and Solas as female and yep I think it would be good if both of them would be bissexual, remember that line I wrote before:

"But for solas AND BLACKWALL yeah I would totally make them bissexual. restrictions is not good in most circumstances."[/size]

So if blackwall or solas are bissexual, its not to my personal advantage, but I think it would be good if player wanted to seduce any of them as a male

They aren't objects that exist for the sole purpose of satisfying the player's needs. They are characters and should be respected as such. Being bisexual certainly works for some of them, but not all.

And well, it is absolutely unrealistic. Is everyone bisexual inthe real world? Of course not.

[serviteur de femto]

dragon age is not  the real world, and some time there is a possibility that some time you would enconter a group of people and all of them will have an alternate sexuality than heterosexual,

 

there is no need to "justify" their bissexuality they can just be bissexual and that's it, its not like they would lose something to be bissexual instead of being heterosexual.

[Qun00]

Thedas isn't the real world in that we don't have dragons and magic. That doesn't mean even basic logic must be thrown away.

And I would be curious to know when was the last time you met an all bisexual group. A mixed one seems more likely and that's the way Inquisition did it.

Oh please, don't flash the oppression card at me. I never said there should be no bisexuals in the game.

[serviteur de femto]

I won't throw the card, but what is the problem with an all bissexual group? If its the problem is logic, what about the fact that it's possible that the group or the person you met happens to like both men and women. Would it be that bad if the probability were in favor of what the writer wants?

 

Like in fallout 4, every companion is bi and it did not ruin the experience for me.

 

And yes for your information, I did met a group of people (not an ultra big group, they were like 7 or 8 but still) who were all bissexual or pansexual. I agree its quite rare but not impossible

[CuriousArtemis]

Technically cullen will love the female warden regardless of her personality, but he will not if he is male. The difference between a mage male warden and a female mage warden is the physics and apparently he does not reciprocate if the warden is in the body of a male.

 

And it's why I don't really push to make the case for Cullen, even though I think that's a really weak argument. For one thing, he's just a character. Whether he will flirt with your boy character or not doesn't really add a darn thing to his character make-up; it's just a game mechanic, and so when he doesn't do it in DA:I, all it does is take something away from players; it doesn't ADD anything. And secondly, the only reason Cullen didn't flirt with a male mage is really the reason why Alistair didn't, and why Teagan didn't, and why you could sleep with the female Dalish but not the male, and so on and so on and so on: because it was 2009, not 2016. People were scared. Literally the only gay male characters in DA:O are Wade and Herrin, and this had to be confirmed after the fact, a la Dumblerdore, and they were pretty much a big ole gay joke. I remember playing the game and not knowing that the head writer was gay himself, and when I encountered those two guys, I was actually kind of offended. "Are they supposed to be a couple?" I wondered. They were so obviously a stereotype!

 

But if we remember the controversy around Anders and his bissexuality in DA 2, even if it could be explain for a lot of reason like the fact that mention loving woman does not mean he cannot love a man too, and that the anders of DA 2 is not the anders of DAOA because of possession

 

But many people did not reacted well to that even with explanation, so that is a risky path for bioware.

 

But should the writers care about those kinds of fans? The ones who were upset about Anders being bi in DA2, I mean. Yeah I'm sure the marketing folks cares because they want to sell to as many buyers as they can. But do you alter your writing to appease bigots? I would hope not. Same deal with Kaidan in ME3. The reason Kaidan wasn't an option in ME1 is because it was frigging 2007. So they fixed that and made him available in 2012. Yay! It ruined not a single game. And made a LOT of people happy. And I seriously doubt a single person refused to buy ME3 because Kaidan was now available to men.

 

 

They aren't objects that exist for the sole purpose of satisfying the player's needs. They are characters and should be respected as such. Being bisexual certainly works for some of them, but not all.

And well, it is absolutely unrealistic. Is everyone bisexual inthe real world? Of course not.

 

Um well actually they are? LOL They are characters, and they are written to entertain us, whether that's to make us smile, laugh, scream, or cry. 

 

And please, explain to me how bisexuality "works" for some characters but not for others. 

 

Is everyone bisexual in the real world? Is everyone bisexual in a BioWare game? How is having four bisexual characters the same as "everyone in the entire game world is bisexual!!!!!11"? 

 

Anyway, what if everyone in a BioWare game became bisexual. I imagine as many heads would explode as did when people played Skyrim and realized they could marry anyone regardless of gender. The short answer would be none. At least I don't recall reading about any Skyrim-related exploding heads. And please let's all agree that Skyrim's lackluster romance ("Here, have a necklace!" "OMG I LOVE YOU LETS GET MARRIED!!") had nothing to do with bisexuality. If all the characters were straight, and they'd STILL marry you just because you gave them a necklace, it would still be a sh!tty romance mechanic lol

[serviteur de femto]

And it's why I don't really push to make the case for Cullen, even though I think that's a really weak argument. For one thing, he's just a character. Whether he will flirt with your boy character or not doesn't really add a darn thing to his character make-up; it's just a game mechanic, and so when he doesn't do it in DA:I, all it does is take something away from players; it doesn't ADD anything. And secondly, the only reason Cullen didn't flirt with a male mage is really the reason why Alistair didn't, and why Teagan didn't, and why you could sleep with the female Dalish but not the male, and so on and so on and so on: because it was 2009, not 2016. People were scared. Literally the only gay male characters in DA:O are Wade and Herrin, and this had to be confirmed after the fact, a la Dumblerdore, and they were pretty much a big ole gay joke. I remember playing the game and not knowing that the head writer was gay himself, and when I encountered those two guys, I was actually kind of offended. "Are they supposed to be a couple?" I wondered. They were so obviously a stereotype!

 

Fair enough, I never thought about the values dissonance of the past, we need to rememeber that in 2009 Bioware had a little controversy with fox news with the romance in mass effect (because fox news is so well informed...), I think that's the very reason why morrigan suddenly have an underwear during the romance scene, even if she does not have any most of the time...

 

 

But should the writers care about those kinds of fans? The ones who were upset about Anders being bi in DA2, I mean. Yeah I'm sure the marketing folks cares because they want to sell to as many buyers as they can. But do you alter your writing to appease bigots? I would hope not. Same deal with Kaidan in ME3. The reason Kaidan wasn't an option in ME1 is because it was frigging 2007. So they fixed that and made him available in 2012. Yay! It ruined not a single game. And made a LOT of people happy. And I seriously doubt a single person refused to buy ME3 because Kaidan was now available to men.

 

Again you have a point, I would not call them biggots on the other hand, maybe people just not thinking about the situation enough and seeing a flaws in the story when there is not. Some of them were biggots, but not all of the complains about ander being bi were intolerant. So true, I don't think writer should care about that. More possibility is always better.

[Qun00]

Um well actually they are? LOL They are characters, and they are written to entertain us, whether that's to make us smile, laugh, scream, or cry.

And please, explain to me how bisexuality "works" for some characters but not for others.

Is everyone bisexual in the real world? Is everyone bisexual in a BioWare game? How is having four bisexual characters the same as "everyone in the entire game world is bisexual!!!!!11"?

Anyway, what if everyone in a BioWare game became bisexual. I imagine as many heads would explode as did when people played Skyrim and realized they could marry anyone regardless of gender. The short answer would be none. At least I don't recall reading about any Skyrim-related exploding heads. And please let's all agree that Skyrim's lackluster romance ("Here, have a necklace!" "OMG I LOVE YOU LETS GET MARRIED!!") had nothing to do with bisexuality. If all the characters were straight, and they'd STILL marry you just because you gave them a necklace, it would still be a sh!tty romance mechanic lol

Yes and no. A character's main purpose is to help with the task of telling a good story. Player wish lists come second. The two can coexist, but the latter isn't the end-all and be-all of writing.

It's simple. That is because that's part of their identity. It would be as inappropriate as deciding that Sera should be attracted to men too. Also, don't take things quite so literally. Of course a full group doesn't mean that all Thedas is bisexual. It is, however, a statistical improbability.

Anyhow, this is truly amusing. You appear to discern some hidden motivation in my point and yet you are hardly setting the example. After all, you wanted justification for Cassandra and Cullen's sexual orientation not too long ago.

[Jedi Comedian]

Just popping by on iPad to say I would have KILLED for bisexual Blackwall lol

My ideal romances would be Solas and Sera, sadly they weren't available for my MC.

[serviteur de femto]

Qun00

 

The sexuality is not always important to the character, for dorian its indeed important because that's the very reason he left his family, but its different for other characters.

 

But let's take for example blackwall, what would it change if he loves men just as much as women, what would he lose in personality if he just liked both gender? Absolutely nothing and if you think it does, show it, explain what it would change to their character if they were bissexual.

[Qun00]

Qun00

The sexuality is not always important to the character, for dorian its indeed important because that's the very reason he left his family, but its different for other characters.

But let's take for example blackwall, what would it change if he loves men just as much as women, what would he lose in personality if he just liked both gender? Absolutely nothing and if you think it does, show it, explain what it would change to their character if they were bissexual.

It wouldn't. I simply believe that the writer's decision shouldn't come from there.

S/He creates a bisexual character because that's the way s/he wants to tell the story, not because "but the players want".

[serviteur de femto]

But in the end it just creates barrier for the player, we are playing a video game about creating our own story.

 

If it was a tv show, a movie, an animated series that would be different because the story goes one way and its not up to the watcher to create his own story.

 

In a bioware game, its completely different, here a non bissexual character just creates a barrier, a restriction that does not bring anything (unless its important like dorian).

[CuriousArtemis]

My ideal romances would be Solas and Sera, sadly they weren't available for my MC.

 

Mine were Solas, Cass, and Cullen. Throw in Blackwall because even though his story was boring, he was HOTTTTT  But yep, same here. Those four weren't available to the characters I prefer to play. 

 

I tried to romance Blackwall with a woman but I bugged out after only a few hours (actually I did make it to Skyhold, but it was... difficult) lol gawd it was just sooooooo booooooring for me.

[Qun00]

But in the end it just creates barrier for the player, we are playing a video game about creating our own story.
 
If it was a tv show, a movie, an animated series that would be different because the story goes one way and its not up to the watcher to create his own story.
 
In a bioware game, its completely different, here a non bissexual character just creates a barrier, a restriction that does not bring anything (unless its important like dorian).

I think the devs are on my side in this. They put diversity first instead of focusing on player whims like they did in DA2.

Did they worry that people wouldn't like being unable to romance Sera as a man or Dorian as a woman? No, and they certainly shouldn't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They could always do both. Have the LIs be different sexual orientations that just happen to allow relationships with either sex. For example instead of being 4 bisexuals there can be 2 bisexuals, 1 pansexual, and 1 demisexual or something. 

[CuriousArtemis]

They could always do both. Have the LIs be different sexual orientations that just happen to allow relationships with either sex. For example instead of being 4 bisexuals there can be 2 bisexuals, 1 pansexual, and 1 demisexual or something. 

 

I like that, but at the same time, I prefer to let the player make that choice? Like I was able to play an asexual inquisitor with Solas (modded ofc) because throughout all the dialogue choices I made, it was never indicated that they'd become physically intimate. That felt really special, and I loved that the writers gave me the ability to do that. 

[serviteur de femto]

I think the devs are on my side in this. They put diversity first instead of focusing on player whims like they did in DA2.

Did they worry that people wouldn't like being unable to romance Sera as a man or Dorian as a woman? No, and they certainly shouldn't.

 

So What? its not because its their choice that it cannot be criticized, for dorian they could not because that is part of his story but for others, no I don't see any reason to not make them bissexual.

 

Its even less work for them when the character is pansexual because they don't have to write special dialogue for refusal or coding that the player character as a male or female cannot romance that particular character. So why they should not, please bring arguments that we did not already discussed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like that, but at the same time, I prefer to let the player make that choice? Like I was able to play an asexual inquisitor with Solas (modded ofc) because throughout all the dialogue choices I made, it was never indicated that they'd become physically intimate. That felt really special, and I loved that the writers gave me the ability to do that. 

All the orientations I listed allow sexual relationships to occur. Even asexuals can have sex with their partners, it's just more for their partner's benefit or things like procreation. So this set up could have between one or all LIs have that kind of option, either through separate paths or by being ambiguous, for whether the relationship is purely romantically intimate or also sexually intimate.

[Qun00]

So What? its not because its their choice that it cannot be criticized, for dorian they could not because that is part of his story but for others, no I don't see any reason to not make them bissexual.
 
Its even less work for them when the character is pansexual because they don't have to write special dialogue for refusal or coding that the player character as a male or female cannot romance that particular character. So why they should not, please bring arguments that we did not already discussed.

Easier isn't better. A balanced and varied representation is important in any group of characters.

[serviteur de femto]

Easier isn't better. A balanced and varied representation is important in any group of characters.

 

But its not worst either, unless you bring arguments why a varied group is better (other than the arguments we already discussed) than an all bissexual group, you are not bringing anything.

[serviteur de femto]

All the orientations I listed allow sexual relationships to occur. Even asexuals can have sex with their partners, it's just more for their partner's benefit or things like procreation. So this set up could have between one or all LIs have that kind of option, either through separate paths or by being ambiguous, for whether the relationship is purely romantically intimate or also sexually intimate.

 

Very interesting,

 

I hope bioware is listening you, that would make variety without creating barriers for romance.

[CuriousArtemis]

Even asexuals can have sex with their partners, it's just more for their partner's benefit or things like procreation.

 

Um, yes, I know this 

[AlanC9]

One thing I hope they learned with this game is that restrictions just upset people; they don't make anyone's gameplay experience "better." So straight female PCs getting two extra romances and qunari and dwarves being restricted from certain romances... that was just a mistake. There were a few other mistakes (like yet another promiscuous bisexual option, sigh) but maybe by Dragon Age 12 they'll get it right

But didn't DA2 teach us that not having restrictions upsets people too? You recognize that elsewhere in the thread, of course. Not all problems have solutions.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Very interesting,

 

I hope bioware is listening you, that would make variety without creating barriers for romance.

Well, knowing my track record with Bioware they are going to do the opposite now that I have expressed what I would like. 

 

Um, yes, I know this 

I know you do. I was just pointing out that the orientations I listed allowed sexual intimacy to be a thing if needed, or preferably if the player chooses to. 

[serviteur de femto]

But didn't DA2 teach us that not having restrictions upsets people too?

 

We discussed this in the message before, you should read it.