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[phoray]

So, my first game of Da:O, I missed her completely. I mean, a guy outside the bar says the place is filled, literally, with people looking to kill my Warden . Like, why would anyone go in? So, yeah, I'm not dumb, I walk away and off to the rest of the game. Edit add: My RP character said that. I wasn't implying that anyone who did go in was dumb.

 

I find out before my second playthrough of DA:O that I missed her. So, expecting battle 100% and thinking this is super silly, I go into the bar. Get exactly what I skipped the first time, a battle. And then Leliana the Sister starts being super religious and wanting to join with me. Everyone comments that I let the religious nutter into the group; and sometimes, I kinda regretted picking her up.(Although not because the religion; her stories and poetry and shoes and stars ugh.) The 2nd playthrough, I obviously got to do the Marjolaine quest; anyway, told her to kill Marjolaine for my own nefarious romance purposes. the whole conclusion of all that is that she finally accepted that she liked being a bard, maybe liked to kill even. But that her religious " I am the maker's chosen" BS was released as her just trying to find a way to feel special. She didn't need that anymore.

 

I play DA 2 and I don't have the Sebastian Content so never see her again until DA:I

 

She's the Left Hand of the Divine; killing those who need to be killed. Yeah, not surprising. Goes into a rant about how she used to think she was special. Yep, remember that.

 

My first play through of DA:I; I loved her explanation of how the new Divine would run things. I was in that moment with her, seeing all the things she could do in my minds eye and paying little attention to how she said things. But then I accidentally hardened her previously by telling her to kill the traitor. When she killed the nun for simply believing in another form of the same religion, man was I angry. WTF Leliana. I'm so done with you. Unfortunately, all of my choices up to that point meant she ended up Divine. Which, I mean, kinda like a Bhelen moment; you hate her but she's doing good. 

 

My second play through; I decided Cassandra's super strong faith and balanced mind would make for a better lasting outcome. We were good friends; I was an elf mage and the Inquisitor and I'm building the Inquisition as strongly as possible because I intend to keep it in trespasser rather than disband like I did in my first play through. Anyway, the war table mission comes up to throw my support officially for Cassandra. (I also noticed more this time through that... damn, Leliana is super into killing people as a first resort. Like, all the time.) Anywho, I find it super amusing that Leliana was right there at the War Table when I sent the "Support Cassandra" mission into completion and later on she brings up this unique idea. 

 

Why shouldn't Leliana be the Divine? I laughed. I really did. Cuz, I mean, obviously the game flags had been slow, right? Because Vivviene never brought up being Divine after I picked Cassandra so very clearly; and she hadn't even been at the very table where it happened. So, anyway, I tell Leliana that I disagree with the notion,  "There are better Candidates elsewhere." I'm quite firm, not mean about it. She acidly replies that it's good then that my opinion doesn't matter? And precedes to paint the picture of her dream Divine world. As I'm shocked by her reply and resultant monologue, I am not in the moment with her. I watch her facial expression, I notice her word choices.

 

Dear me. Leliana still thinks she could have been chosen by the Maker. Wants to believe it with every fiber of her being as she paints this verbal fantasy of the Divine; herself, saving the world through acceptance and love. And maybe a **** ton of killing whoever doesn't agree, because regardless of her softened status, I kinda think that is her default reaction when dealing with "people who don't matter." The epilogue of a softened Leliana just says she 'Josied' her way through the various factions that opposed her, but I bet there were still a few slit throats in there, just not as many as a hardened Lelliana. 

 

Anyway, the feeling that I was dealing with a woman who was just mad enough to go mostly unnoticed.....or self esteem low enough to keep needing to be special 15 years after: Helping defeat a blight, becoming the Divine's left hand, pulling the Inquistion together and with all the power at her fingertips? really really really creeped me out. As I mentioned above, I don't even think I could put a softened Leliana on the Divine's throne again after feeling this feeling. Honestly, I think the box the Divine left behind, releasing Leliana, went mostly mis understood. It wasn't just about killing, it was about knowing you are a cherished person who doesn't need to resort to violence to get that ...loved? special? feeling. Also, I honestly don't think the previous Divine would have wanted Leliana to be the next one. They didn't even agree on how far the Divine should push, Leliana admits that in her monologue.

 

Did anyone else get this feeling? I guess it only could have been possible if you didn't choose Leliana as the Divine yourself.

[KaiserShep]

So, my first game of Da:O, I missed her completely. I mean, a guy outside the bar says the place is filled, literally, with people looking to kill my Warden . Like, why would anyone go in? So, yeah, I'm not dumb, I walk away and off to the rest of the game. 

 

 

Why wouldn't anyone go in? At this point, the Warden is walking around with another Warden warrior, a forest witch and a big ass Mabari hound. I'd be in the mood to watch someone get chewed and set aflame. 

[thats1evildude]

Soliders causing trouble? Sounds like XP to me.

I never felt creeped out by Leliana. She saddened me, mostly. She'd come so far from that young woman who liked stories and helping people.

Well, I kept her softened and off the Sunburst Throne, so hopefully she can enjoy her semi-retirement with the Warden.

[nightscrawl]

So, my first game of Da:O, I missed her completely. I mean, a guy outside the bar says the place is filled, literally, with people looking to kill my Warden . Like, why would anyone go in? So, yeah, I'm not dumb, I walk away and off to the rest of the game.

Ha ha I love this XD. It's always fun to see the RP reasons why a person did this or that thing, and in this case it's completely missing a potential follower.

[Reznore57]

Nah you're not alone OP.I find Leliana super disturbing...

I still remember her in DAO and the fact that she enjoyed all the drama and killings of being a bard , it's all a game of seducing , betraying and shanking people...but then she makes a fuss about Marjolaine , who being a bard , seduced and betrayed her.

It never occurs to Leliana perhaps karma's a b**** and what Marjolaine did really wasn't shocking.

 

And yeah I also got the talk with Leliana about her not being Divine , and she went all scary ..."Oh Yes I am Going To be Divine , nothing's stopping me.I will make this world better!"

She was softened in my playthrough , and she scared me.

And I got her as Divine the first time against my wishes...still remember that picture with flying nugs and that feeling of deep horror washing over me.

I do not think she is mentally healthy in any way shape or form .She can go from murder Pope to Peaceful pope only depending on the sweet nothing the Inquisitor whispered to her.Same thing with the warden , same thing with the Divine , same thing with Marjolaine.

So even if she's softened , there's no way to know what will happen in the future , if Leliana cross path with the Next Important Person in her life , she will turn bloody Mary or Mother Theresa depending on this other's person whim.

[Qun00]

Everyone gets the creeps from Sister Nightingale.

[phoray]

Everyone gets the creeps from Sister Nightingale.

I went back twelve pages looking for a topic that brought up the creepiness of Sister Nightingale, and only found The Leliana appreciation thread. As this wasn't appreciation, I started my own topic about it. When previously considering who would be Divine in my first play through, the topics only shared their ideals, not their personalities specifically. Leliana will do this, Cassandra this, Viv this.

 

So, I guess I just haven't seen the "Wow, Leliana is creepy" enough to agree with that statement? Or are we referring to Varric, who sometimes shudders when he talks about her?

[Qun00]

Cullen also comments about how intimidating she is.

[robertmarilyn]

She's creepy! 

 

But softened Leliana is also always my Divine because no way will I ever let Viv be Divine and I don't want Cass tied down as Divine. 

[straykat]

I don't find her creepy.  At least not when I add her tragic story to it. My Warden died and she was in love. Wynne died, who she greatly admired. Justinia died and she was her mentor and best friend. The Chantry has gone to crap and she wants revenge.

 

It's more heartbreaking than creepy to me... if anything, I just want to remind her to be inspiring again.

[roselavellan]

I find her a little creepy: she enjoys playing the Game and manipulating people, and she's quite blase about murder and treachery in that context. So yeah, she's obviously someone who can be dangerous while looking innocent. So... aren't we supposed to be uneasy around her?

[mrs_anomaly]

I find her tragic. I really enjoyed her in DAO. I never romanced her but I like her VA and although I have never been a devout Chantry PC I still like to respect other people's beliefs to the best of my ability- her attitude in DAI was very dark compared to DAO (and I did see her in DA2) and I felt badly about it. Can't blame her though. Thedas has been entirely dark for a long time if anything ever else. Also I didn't realize you could soften her my first play through of DAI   I totally ruined her. Never again! 

[straykat]

So... aren't we supposed to be uneasy around her?

 

I think non-fans should be. Or new people. She comes out different if seen as the character of the whole trilogy... and not just this game.

[BansheeOwnage]

I think she's creepy, because right before wanting to romance you she goes on about how life is a game, and that she lies an manipulates people constantly. Why would you romance her after she says that? From the narration it seems like Leliana is genuinely interested in the Warden, but I can't justify that for RP. Well, unless I RP'd a naive Warden who's a fool when it comes to love.

 

Anyway, I feel like she'd have been a fairly interesting depiction of a bi-polar person (sorry if that's not the term now), since that really seems like that's what she is. Sometimes, she's a ruthless manipulating bard who wouldn't hesitate to kill someone who isn't a threat to anyone. Other times, she genuinely wants to help people and loves romantic (in multiple senses) stories. Really, her being bi-polar is the only way I could reconcile this behaviour in-universe, though I don't think it's what her writers actually intended.

 

My $0.02.

[Catilina]

Just a humble question:
Why would a creepy lunatic in a fantasy story, whose have a vision?

(Seriously, there are so many creepy idiots [also in the real world], that Leliana seems especially normal person!)

[robertmarilyn]

I've never wanted to romance Leliana but my first few DAO games she'd ninjamance me when I was wanting a romance with Alistair or Zevran, so when my PCs would dump her (as kindly as possible), they were then forever looking over their shoulder, waiting to get their throat slit. When she gets mad, she gets really mad and scary. 

 

But i finally figured out how to keep her from starting an unwanted romance while still getting to talk to her enough to keep her quest and conversations going, so my later wardens felt more comfortable around her. Even if she was libel to slit somebody's throat, they didn't think it would be their throat. 

 

Although they seem too idealistic, I do actually like softened Divine Leliana's plans better than those of Cass (my second choice), or Viv (my NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS) choice, so despite thinking Leliana is a sad kind of creepy (she's been very misguided and used in the past), she has always been my pick for Divine (softened). 

[Seraphim24]

DA:I Leliana seems a lot weirder than DA:O Leliana for sure.

[Catilina]

DA:I Leliana seems a lot weirder than DA:O Leliana for sure.

That may be true, however. Nevertheless, I would like if she be the Divine in my current play.

[roselavellan]

I think non-fans should be. Or new people. She comes out different if seen as the character of the whole trilogy... and not just this game.

 

I don't mind Leliana myself (I would say my feelings about her go from neutral to slightly like). I understand that she has been searching for a higher purpose and a better moral life than a bard normally has, hence her crisis in DAO (and the opportunity to soften her in DAI).

 

However in DAO she does admit she enjoys the thrill of the Game, and a person who is dangerous and manipulative can be creepy, because you will never know if you're their target. All that is just theoretically and objectively speaking, of course, because both of my PCs (Warden and Inquisitor) have had good friendships with her.

 

(Btw, I always choose softened Leliana for Divine).

[straykat]

I think it's obvious the Warden is not her target though. This is the kind of pettiness Marjolaine wants to convince you of, but it isn't true. Same with Leliana's DLC, where Marjolaine insists they're the same.

 

And you really see it isn't true in DAI. She's devastated by the Warden's death... or really cares about them if you live.

[Korva]

I don't think bipolar fits her, but she's definitely got a huge Jekyll/Hyde thing going on that is indeed very creepy, especially in combination with being a master of "the Game". Plus she latches on to certain people way too hard for her own mental health, and her theology is sketchy as hell. That's primarily the fault of the writers who created a deistic religion but went on to routinely ignore that basic fact and instead write most of its adherents as explicitly theistic with not a single word of acknowledgement for that disconnect. It would have been easy to introduce different interpretations of the faith and overall give Andrastianism more depth, but like many aspects of the plot and setting, they apparently couldn't be bothered. Leliana is probably the worst "offender" in that regard, made extra bothersome by her belief in being so very special. Her faith seems to boil down to "the Maker wants whatever I want", and that is a stupendously dangerous mindset that should be kept far away from any position of power.

 

All in all, she strikes me as more of a powder keg waiting to blow up than a credible inspired and inspiring reformer. I want to like her more than I can, but there are just too many missed opportunities to address the inconsistencies in and problems of this character.

[straykat]

I don't think bipolar fits her, but she's definitely got a huge Jekyll/Hyde thing going on that is indeed very creepy, especially in combination with being a master of "the Game". Plus she latches on to certain people way too hard for her own mental health, and her theology is sketchy as hell. That's primarily the fault of the writers who created a deistic religion but went on to routinely ignore that basic fact and instead write most of its adherents as explicitly theistic with not a single word of acknowledgement for that disconnect. It would have been easy to introduce different interpretations of the faith and overall give Andrastianism more depth, but like many aspects of the plot and setting, they apparently couldn't be bothered. Leliana is probably the worst "offender" in that regard, made extra bothersome by her belief in being so very special. Her faith seems to boil down to "the Maker wants whatever I want", and that is a stupendously dangerous mindset that should be kept far away from any position of power.

 

All in all, she strikes me as more of a powder keg waiting to blow up than a credible inspired and inspiring reformer. I want to like her more than I can, but there are just too many missed opportunities to address the inconsistencies in and problems of this character.

 

I agree on her shaky theology.

 

Shaky in Andrastian terms at least. She's essentially Christian-like to me. But in a deistic religion.

 

But it gives her charm and an extra concern for the welfare of people. She's willing to be generous before someone "earns" it. Which is cool. What annoys me about DA more is the entirety of DAI hinges on a non-deistic plot too... suddenly a ton of people are like Leliana. Just so they can tell this story. I don't like it. It feels like it was invented by the marketing department or something. ...and the writers just had to go along. My theory anyways I think someone outside the team wanted some dragonborn ripoff, complete with glowy graphics and iconic helmet.

[Jedi Comedian]

I personally find her incredibly disturbing, since she demands an outrageously high amount of approval before you can show her to your tent.

[roselavellan]

I think it's obvious the Warden is not her target though. This is the kind of pettiness Marjolaine wants to convince you of, but it isn't true. Same with Leliana's DLC, where Marjolaine insists they're the same.

 

And you really see it isn't true in DAI. She's devastated by the Warden's death... or really cares about them if you live.

 

Oh, was this in response to my comment? Yes, that's why I said "theoretically", because in the game, Leliana and my Warden were great friends (I think she said the Warden was someone she could truly trust, or something sweet like that).

[straykat]

Oh, was this in response to my comment? Yes, that's why I said "theoretically", because in the game, Leliana and my Warden were great friends (I think she said the Warden was someone she could truly trust, or something sweet like that).

 

Not exactly directly. I'm just kind of musing, in response.