Questa discussione ha avuto 47 risposte

[ui876will]

Okay,I saw a lot of people talking about it in other forums,so I decided to talk about it here and see what you guys think.

 

let's pretend that the Reaper invasion never happened,Humanity didn't save the Council and the bad relationship between humans and Turians started a war between the two species.

- Humans Alliance is at its apex and is being helped by Cerberus.
- Turian Hierarchy allies with the Volus race and the separatists to fight against the humans
- Shepard and Garrus both defect and take no part in the conflict
- All other races are neutral

Which side end up being the winner/minor loser?

[Taki17]

If the battle of the Citadel happened, and the Alliance did not save the council, then the turians lost too many assets to go full on offensive early in the conflict, so they might have to play defensive for a time, until they can replace the lost ships and soldiers.

 

According to ME2, the turians are no longer able to effectively patrol the Citadel space, so a lot of these patrols and duties have been taken over by the Alliance. The turians though still have the most military assets among all the races, and if they no longer have to patrol in Citadel space, their remaining fleet very well could be enough to defend turian space until more ships can be built and more troops can be recurited.

 

The turians have the advantage of numbers in trained military forces, as every adult turian has completed their military training and they can be conscripted and sent to battle in short notice, whereas the precentage of soldiers among the humans is really small, so conscripting, training and equipping new troops would cost more time and resources. I think this could be the decisive factor in the war, since most of the technology used by two races is equally advanced, but the turians have the advantage of numbers AND trained troops (so it is not even the untrained, badly equipped but numerous Red Army vs. the highly trained, but smaller Wehrmacht with better equipment).

 

The volus wouldn't be much help for the turians in the field of battle, but their financial support might come in handy in equipping and maintaining the war assets, and the burden of the war economy would be shared between the two allies.

 

Cerberus could go full black ops on the turians and do some damage with sabotage behind enemy lines on some colony worlds and on less significant warships, but I don't think they could do much damage to the main fleet or to Palaven, as probably any human interest in turian space would be shut down once the war breaks out (so no corporations as Cerberus fronts) and any humans would be detained/deported (so no human agents).

 

Humanity's only chance would be winning the krogan to their cause, as they hate the turians with passion and are strong and resilient warriors, and despite the genophage, they still posess the numbers to provide a significant threat, especially if united under a single banner.

[Quarian Master Race]

If ME3 war assets are to be believed, humanity would obliterate the Hierarchy, especially if The Galactic Empire  Cerberus decided to cooperate with the Alliance. No one could defeat the setting's Mary Sues alone. They're too scrappy and genetically diverse (lol).

[themikefest]

My Shepard would have no problem shooting Garrus. Then joins the fight against the turians

[Kenshen]

Maybe I don't get the question here but if there is no reapers then why would there be a battle of the citadel and why would the council need to be saved?  Are we to assume the events at the end of ME1 ended the reaper threat for good?

 

Anyways it would be very foolish to underestimate the Turians.  They will fight to the last to win which humans have not shown to be willing to go that far.  I do wonder if the Krogan could keep themselves out of a fight like that especially if it looked like the Turians were starting to lose.  I would bet on the Turians winning.

[TheN7Penguin]

Really, given how the three games pan out, you could defeat the Turians with a single human as long as her name is Commander Shepard. No need for Cerberus or an Alliance fleet.

[ui876will]

Maybe I don't get the question here but if there is no reapers then why would there be a battle of the citadel and why would the council need to be saved?  Are we to assume the events at the end of ME1 ended the reaper threat for good?

 

Anyways it would be very foolish to underestimate the Turians.  They will fight to the last to win which humans have not shown to be willing to go that far.  I do wonder if the Krogan could keep themselves out of a fight like that especially if it looked like the Turians were starting to lose.  I would bet on the Turians winning.

Yeah,we're just pretending that Sovereign was the only Reaper to come out of dark space,and after his defeat,Harbinger decided to keep it's fleet away from organics and break the cycle,the Collectors didn't atack the human colonies,and the events of ME2 and ME3 never happened.

 

 

Really, given how the three games pan out, you could defeat the Turians with a single human as long as her name is Commander Shepard. No need for Cerberus or an Alliance fleet.

Shepard is one of the best soldiers alive(maybe the best),but sometimes,people really overestimate her.

She would have never accomplished everything she did if it weren't for her friends.I love Shep,but come on,without help,even Saren would have killed her with little effort.

 

 

My Shepard would have no problem shooting Garrus. Then joins the fight against the turians

Pal,that's a very renegade attitude...I like it...

[TheN7Penguin]

Arguably, Tali is the only one out of Shepard's friends who make a contribution to the story in ME1, with her giving the evidence to the Council. Everyone else is expendable. Especially Kaidan... he has to go. Sarah Shepard has no regrets there.

 

Anyway, in ME2 the team DEFINITELY contributes to the story, and they do again in ME3.

 

But yeah, Shepard by herself could definitely deal a lot of damage to the Turians... given that, by ME2, she's a practically indestructible, partially-cybernetic being with all sorts of upgrades to make her even stronger.

[ui876will]

Arguably, Tali is the only one out of Shepard's friends who make a contribution to the story in ME1, with her giving the evidence to the Council. Everyone else is expendable. Especially Kaidan... he has to go. Sarah Shepard has no regrets there.

 

Anyway, in ME2 the team DEFINITELY contributes to the story, and they do again in ME3.

 

But yeah, Shepard by herself could definitely deal a lot of damage to the Turians... given that, by ME2, she's a practically indestructible, partially-cybernetic being with all sorts of upgrades to make her even stronger.

I was actually talking about battle moments,I don't think Shep could have beaten Saren and all his minions single handed,especially since ME1 Shep is way weaker than her ME2/ME3 counterpart.

But you're right,ME2 Shep could easily wipe out dozens or even hundreds of turian platoons,but it would still be not enough.

Besides,Shep loves Garrus too much,she wouldn't abandon her boyfriend to fight the turians,neither would Garrus to fight the humans.So,I guess Hackett and Fedorian would have to fight this war alone.

And in this case,I'm starting to think that turians would win.

[TheN7Penguin]

Ah, there's the problem. My renegade femshep romances no one. She has no loyalty to Garrus or any other Turian. She kills squad members for the fun of it (yes, Ashley, I'm talking about you). So no problems there.

[ui876will]

Ah, there's the problem. My renegade femshep romances no one. She has no loyalty to Garrus or any other Turian. She kills squad members for the fun of it (yes, Ashley, I'm talking about you). So no problems there.

lol,what your shep is? some kind of monster? killing Ash is okay,but other squadmates? my shep would never kill Javik or Garrus,they are the only ones that makes ME3 enjoyable.

 

P.S - Kaidan > Ashley

[themikefest]

lol,what your shep is? some kind of monster? killing Ash is okay,but other squadmates? my shep would never kill Javik or Garrus,they are the only ones that makes ME3 enjoyable.

 

P.S - Kaidan > Ashley

Really? Try a playthrough like the one in my signature. Its not hard to have a squadmate killed

[TheN7Penguin]

Yes, she's a monster... of a kind. Kills everything and everyone she can, has ****** wars with the rest (see renegade confrontations with Jack), doesn't cure the Genophage, shoots Mordin, kills Wrex, kills the Geth, shoots Legion in the face and then kills every other AI in the galaxy at the end of the game. The galaxy is a better place that way.

[TheN7Penguin]

Oh, and there's the whole part about wiping out Samara's family. That's especially fun.

[TheN7Penguin]

So yeah... I'm guessing she'd probably pull Garrus' face apart and beat him to death with it at the first sign of him trying to help a war with humanity, and then go and start blowing up things with a Cain. So back to my original point, I think Commander Shepard could take on all the Turians XD

[UpUpAway95]

Well, given that the humans had managed to recapture Shanxi before the end of the First Contact War and ultimately suffered fewer casualties than the Turians during the First Contact War, I would place my bets on the humans.

[ui876will]

Renegade Shep looks like a human Aria T'Loak...I hate Aria...

Shepard is so evil that Harbinger looks like the good guy,harvesting people to save them from their misery.

 

#TeamHarbinger

[KrrKs]

If this is with pre ME3 Cerberus, the Turians should still have a larger fleet than the Alliance. Also more soldiers, more colonies with more monetary income and means to support that fleet and military.

 

I'm for the Turians.

Bonus point is that they would also be supported by the Salarians and maybe even the Asari.

[bunch1]

Turians win, it's not even a question.

 

1.Humanity has one of the smallest populations in the galaxy and the lowest % of solders.  The Turians have been around for thousands of years, there are going to be billions and billions of more turians then humans and every one of them is already a government employ and has undergone at least basic military training.

 

2.The turians have what, 5 times the dreadnoughts that humanity has and probably hundreds, if not thousands, of more cruisers and frigates. 

 

3.Yes they lost ships at the battle of the citadel but the fact that they pull back their council contributions doesn't mean they have a small fleet.  Member races of citadel space are responsible for protecting their own space.  Look at humanity and the fact that the citadel council doesn't send ships to help in ME1 or ME2.  The citadel fleet is large and powerful but considering the size of the council races territory they likely only comment a small percentage of their military to this allied fleet.  Indeed the citidel fleet seems more about protecting the citadel and projecting council unity then an actual combat force. 

 

And much like how the us doesn't commit more then small percentage of its force to un peacekeeping forces I don't see the council races lending the council more then a small portion of their own fleets.  So while the loss of those ships is large it is a small drop in the bucket compared to the main turian fleet.  We see this in ME3 when several alliance fleets, probably about half their force, are shredded in moments against the reapers but the Turian fleet is still powerful enough to be fighting the reapers days/weeks after the battle has begun for Palaven.  It takes months before the losses become significant enough to even consider halting offensive operations.  That is just how large and powerful their fleet is.

 

4.Economy is also in the turians favor.  With the voulus managing things and their wide holdings across the galaxy and connections with neutral specious they are not going to lack for anything while humanity is heavily dependent on small, under defended mining colonies to fuel Earth's economy.  With how small their fleet is they can't protect that many far flung assets and going likly wont even try to, instead pulling back to defend the Acturus system and maybe 1 or 2 of their larger colonies. Which would me they would soon face shortages in material for their war effort. 

 

5.Purely speculation but I imagine the turians have several shipyards in several systems capable of capital ship production while humanity is entirely dependent on the shipyards at earth meaning that the turians would be able to replace any losses to their fleet far faster then humanity.

 

6.Cerberus doesn't factor into the war in any major way.  They don't have enough ships or manpower to significantly increase humanities military assets so I don't see what they could do that would matter.  Their tech isn't greater then the alliance at the end of ME1 and they aren't equal to N7's in combat so I don't see the point. of including them.

[TheN7Penguin]

Also, humans are stupid.

[iM3GTR]

Also, humans are stupid.

You misspelt 'speshul'.

[Undead Han]

Realistically, Turians.

 

The Alliance is a fourth rate power, weaker economically and militarily than the Turians, Asari, and the Salarians. If the ME Universe was real, humanity would more than likely get curb stomped by any one of them.

 

Since the ME Universe isn't real however, and it is written by human writers with a boner for the Humans Are Special trope, the Alliance would probably win. The writers would likely come up with some nonsense about humanity pulling off the great underdog win by being better equipped genetically to think outside the box. 

 

To be clear, since I'm sure the above will rankle certain posters, the Alliance military is actually my favorite faction in the first three games. I just don't like how far too often the humans weren't written as being inherently 'special' rather than just the scrappy underdog.

[ui876will]

Humanity gave the Turians a bad time when they invaded Shanxi,and they weren't even prepared for a battle like that.

The Alliance N7 is considered one of the most important elite groups in the whole Galaxy (Only STG is considered a fair challenge against them).

The Turians don't have any kind of Black Ops operations that is as good as the N7 program,not to mention that Humanity is known for always turn the odds in their favor (that explains why Humans won the war against the ****** neanderthalensis and even against greater predators).

Both sides could end up winning this war,even if the Turians have the upper hand,I wouldn't be so fast to count the Human Millitary off.

[bunch1]

Humanity gave the Turians a bad time when they invaded Shanxi,and they weren't even prepared for a battle like that.

The Alliance N7 is considered one of the most important elite groups in the whole Galaxy (Only STG is considered a fair challenge against them).

The Turians don't have any kind of Black Ops operations that is as good as the N7 program,not to mention that Humanity is known for always turn the odds in their favor (that explains why Humans won the war against the ****** neanderthalensis and even against greater predators).

Both sides could end up winning this war,even if the Turians have the upper hand,I wouldn't be so fast to count the Human Millitary off.

1.You can win a battle and loose a war.  Look at American history for example.  The revolution only succeed because the British never committed any real forces to the war.  When you look at how many British soldiers made up any one army in that war vs. the number of troops used in their continental wars from 100 years to Napoleon you realize that they never took America serious and without Frances help we never would have won.  Likewise during the war of 1812 were again, the British only ever committed a token force to North America and used their main effort in Europe.  And I would think everyone in the US is familiar with the American civil war which had the south win battle after battle but loose the war through attrition.  And again in World War 1 and 2 when the Germans seemed all but unstoppable at the start of the war.

 

2.Turians have cabals and we don't know how good they are.  Past that we know they take talented soldiers and give them training to better their chance at becoming spetres which is above N7 in abilities.  Don't forget that Turians make up a large portion of the council spectres so they have black ops and commando training to.  Past that you forget that the asari commando is considered the greatest warrior in the galaxy lore wise. 

 

3.It's not an insult to say humanity would loose.  The turians respect humanity and their is a reason they are given a council seat where other races who have been around longer haven't.  But that reason is potential.  The difference in ability and technology between these two is minimal at best with humanities only advantage being they may have more biotics then turians, but that is debatable since they have a larger % but smaller base to draw from.  So unless every human soldier can kill 20 turians before they die or every ship can destroy 10 turian cruisers before they go they can not win based on weight of numbers alone.

[Undead Han]

Humanity gave the Turians a bad time when they invaded Shanxi,and they weren't even prepared for a battle like that.

The Alliance N7 is considered one of the most important elite groups in the whole Galaxy (Only STG is considered a fair challenge against them).

The Turians don't have any kind of Black Ops operations that is as good as the N7 program,not to mention that Humanity is known for always turn the odds in their favor (that explains why Humans won the war against the ****** neanderthalensis and even against greater predators).

Both sides could end up winning this war,even if the Turians have the upper hand,I wouldn't be so fast to count the Human Millitary off.

 

The Alliance was poised to lose the First Contact War actually.

 

The FCW was nothing more than a minor border skirmish involving a handful of ships and a single colony world, and while the Alliance eventually got the better of the Turians, the Turians were in the process of mobilizing their entire fleet for total war. That fleet also greatly outnumbered the Alliance Navy. Given that the Turians have been space-faring for centuries, they should also have many more colonies than humanity, a much deeper manpower pool, an economy that dwarfs that of the Alliance, and a greater ability to replace lost ships.

 

The Alliance was saved only by the intervention of the Council, which forced a cease fire before hostilities could escalate further.