489 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

It's the only novel I haven't read.... because of this very forum.

[Mcfly616]

Tie-in novels are the worst.

[Han Shot First]

Tie-in novels are the worst.

 

Revelation was okay.

 

It's not fantastic, but worth the $4.95 or whatever the paperback went for. 

[B.Shep]

The books and comics are a very nice tie in to make the ME universe bigger.

 

ME Deception is the only exception because it's a lore killer book.

[Quarian Master Race]

None of this means it's OK to have stuff like ME1 - which was actually the worst offender on geth Quarian stuff - where Shepard is basically stuck telling Tali her people deserved genocide.

Hey now, if you go Paragon, you can give the most halfhearted "sorry if I offended you" apology in galactic history. You know, right after telling her that she deserves to live in essentially permanent conditions of martial law/ poverty, and be afflicted with a deadly autoimmune disorder because her ancestors from like 3 centuries ago accidentally got killed by robots. Man, Paragon Shep is so culturally sensitive to aliens.

 

You're right though. As preachy and ham handed as ME2 and 3 got in shilling the synthetics as people narrative, Renegade options, especially during the Rannoch Arc did at least let you disagree to an extent, provided you already knew what they said despite the useless paraphrases (so you don't inadvertently start crying to Xen about her "experiments on living creatures" when selecting "you study AI?"). Your Shepard still looked like a big dumb hypocrite with the unshackled illegal sexbot walking around the ship, but you could vocalize some opposition to the narrative's bent.

 

That wasn't the case in ME1. In fact even the writers seemed to have no clue what the moral of the story was supposed to be on that front. One minute the geth are "a species", the next Sovereign is "just a machine" (that could apparently be broken).

[UpUpAway]

Hey now, if you go Paragon, you can give the most halfhearted "sorry if I offended you" apology in galactic history. You know, right after telling her that she deserves to live in essentially permanent conditions of martial law/ poverty, and be afflicted with a deadly autoimmune disorder because her ancestors from like 3 centuries ago accidentally got killed by robots. Man, Paragon Shep is so culturally sensitive to aliens.

 

You're right though. As preachy and ham handed as ME2 and 3 got in shilling the synthetics as people narrative, Renegade options, especially during the Rannoch Arc did at least let you disagree to an extent, provided you already knew what they said despite the useless paraphrases (so you don't inadvertently start crying to Xen about her "experiments on living creatures" when selecting "you study AI?"). Your Shepard still looked like a big dumb hypocrite with the unshackled illegal sexbot walking around the ship, but you could vocalize some opposition to the narrative's bent.

 

That wasn't the case in ME1. In fact even the writers seemed to have no clue what the moral of the story was supposed to be on that front. One minute the geth are "a species", the next Sovereign is "just a machine" (that could apparently be broken).

 

However, Shepard can also avoid asking her about the geth at all.  I think also that the writers fell into a problem by trying to present the player with options on both ends of the spectrum and then inserting some of the auto dialogue to "match" sometimes this "side" and sometimes that "side" of the issue... leading to a lot of dialogue that just doesn't make much sense or that just goes against the slant the player has selected (regardless of which slant they select).

[Quarian Master Race]

However, Shepard can also avoid asking her about the geth at all.

Yeah, or just "I should go" up on out of the conversation when the two options of "you deserved it", and "haha idiot, you deserved it" pop up. You still get most of the exchange, though you'll miss some information, like the tidbit on geth killing every organic who has ever tried to make contact with them (but it's okay because that gets ignored later anyway).

[In Exile]

However, Shepard can also avoid asking her about the geth at all.  I think also that the writers fell into a problem by trying to present the player with options on both ends of the spectrum and then inserting some of the auto dialogue to "match" sometimes this "side" and sometimes that "side" of the issue... leading to a lot of dialogue that just doesn't make much sense or that just goes against the slant the player has selected (regardless of which slant they select).

But it's just as ridiculous as with Wrex and the first contact war. Like, you'd have to be beyond stupid and ignorant to think this is a comparison. So ME1 has this really weird situation where half the time Shepard is so comically ignorant of the world that it boggles the mind, and leads to things like comparing the potential sterility plague facing the krogan with a skirmish, or endorsing genocide. 

[Laughing_Man]

All of this is about **** writing, not apolitical writing.

 

Ham-fisted writing is "**** writing" no matter if it's about preaching on gender politics or if it is about getting all precious on the Quarian-Geth issue, or the Genophage.

 

It all comes back to one of the basic rules of writing a good story: Show, don't tell. Because you need to respect your readers to some degree, not treat them like retards, let them draw their own conclusions, don't be hamfisted about showing how Dr!Evil Cerberus is, and don't break the fourth wall with political rants.

 

Now, if it makes sense for the character in the story to rant about current political issues (say in a game like GTA 5), go right ahead, he's just a character speaking his mind, and he is not getting out of the bounds of his character. But when you as a writer change the lore in a rather conspicuous manner and then proceed to speak trough the mouth of a character to preach about gender politics, that's dumb, obvious, annoying, and probably not even helpful to "the cause".

 

 

I may have went a little overboard with all those posts, but my point is simple: I'm not against inclusion of minorities or any kind of different than usual characters in a story, the opposite, when done well - adding memorable quirky or different characters helps to break the monotony and sometimes generic feel of the game.

 

But that's all assuming that all those characters and stories are there serving to make the game more awesome and interesting, not the other way around when the game is pulled down to serve as a preaching tool, that's annoying, presumptuous - because the buyers of the game are not your kids that you need to push greens inside their food because it's "good for them", and dishonest - because you are never going to see on the box "contains political preaching".

 

All in all, quality writing and interesting stories without too many contrivances should be in the interest of anyone who loves video games, no matter what your political agenda is. The quality of the game itself should come first, that's why we are here after all (me anyway), not to debate politics.

[straykat]

But it's just as ridiculous as with Wrex and the first contact war. Like, you'd have to be beyond stupid and ignorant to think this is a comparison. So ME1 has this really weird situation where half the time Shepard is so comically ignorant of the world that it boggles the mind, and leads to things like comparing the potential sterility plague facing the krogan with a skirmish, or endorsing genocide. 

 

I still don't pity him.. because they don't do anything productive about it.

[TheN7Penguin]

Renegade options, especially during the Rannoch Arc did at least let you disagree to an extent,

 

Personally, blowing up a Reaper and shooting Legion in the face were my favourite disagreements.

[straykat]

Tbh, my first instinct was to help Legion. Then the result horrified me.

 

Old sympathies, I guess. I liked him so much in ME2. "Person" or not. He's not the same character in 3. Or rather, the Geth aren't.

[TheN7Penguin]

I actually interpreted the Rannoch arc as "Legion contains Reaper code and it's basically caused many math errors (Geth Indoctrination) that are making him say this. The Reapers want the Geth to live (possibly as either a legacy of the Reapers sensing their imminent doom, or as assistance in the cycle at the time)."

So I killed the Geth. Because Reaper code isn't good.

I also shot Mordin and Wrex, and didn't cure the Genophage. Just saying.

[In Exile]

Tbh, my first instinct was to help Legion. Then the result horrified me.

 

Old sympathies, I guess. I liked him so much in ME2. "Person" or not. He's not the same character in 3. Or rather, the Geth aren't.

 

ME3 Geth-Quarian plot is idiotic on a lot of levels, including the nonsensical Quarian assault (the result of which would make them way, way more vulnerable to a reaper genocide) and the Geth abandoning everything they believe. Plus Quarian science-magic suddenly fighting out how to genocide the geth forthwith. 

[BSpud]

I need to read this now.

 

It got a really good review! https://twitter.com/...362747836604417

[straykat]

It got a really good review! https://twitter.com/...362747836604417

 

Oh.. man.. and I respected him too.

[BSpud]

He's a well-meaning, nice dude who created a lot of cool stuff for us, but also made a few really boneheaded decisions.

 

 

(Shoddy Youtube captioning lol)

[SKAR]

I hope the book is about the ARKCON initiative, the N7 program, and about the setting.

Agreed.

[Drone223]

Ham-fisted writing is "**** writing" no matter if it's about preaching on gender politics or if it is about getting all precious on the Quarian-Geth issue, or the Genophage.

 

It all comes back to one of the basic rules of writing a good story: Show, don't tell. Because you need to respect your readers to some degree, not treat them like retards, let them draw their own conclusions, don't be hamfisted about showing how Dr!Evil Cerberus is, and don't break the fourth wall with political rants.

 

Now, if it makes sense for the character in the story to rant about current political issues (say in a game like GTA 5), go right ahead, he's just a character speaking his mind, and he is not getting out of the bounds of his character. But when you as a writer change the lore in a rather conspicuous manner and then proceed to speak trough the mouth of a character to preach about gender politics, that's dumb, obvious, annoying, and probably not even helpful to "the cause".

 

 

I may have went a little overboard with all those posts, but my point is simple: I'm not against inclusion of minorities or any kind of different than usual characters in a story, the opposite, when done well - adding memorable quirky or different characters helps to break the monotony and sometimes generic feel of the game.

 

But that's all assuming that all those characters and stories are there serving to make the game more awesome and interesting, not the other way around when the game is pulled down to serve as a preaching tool, that's annoying, presumptuous - because the buyers of the game are not your kids that you need to push greens inside their food because it's "good for them", and dishonest - because you are never going to see on the box "contains political preaching".

 

All in all, quality writing and interesting stories without too many contrivances should be in the interest of anyone who loves video games, no matter what your political agenda is. The quality of the game itself should come first, that's why we are here after all (me anyway), not to debate politics.

Well said, diversity shouldn't be done for the sake of diversity. Diversity should be a result of good and subtle writing.

[ElitePinecone]

But when you as a writer change the lore in a rather conspicuous manner and then proceed to speak trough the mouth of a character to preach about gender politics, that's dumb, obvious, annoying, and probably not even helpful to "the cause".

 

Do you have an example of when this has ever actually happened?

[Sartoz]

The books and comics are a very nice tie in to make the ME universe bigger.

 

ME Deception is the only exception because it's a lore killer book.

                                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Hm... I wonder why Bio permitted such an abomination to be published.

[Sartoz]

However, Shepard can also avoid asking her about the geth at all.  I think also that the writers fell into a problem by trying to present the player with options on both ends of the spectrum and then inserting some of the auto dialogue to "match" sometimes this "side" and sometimes that "side" of the issue... leading to a lot of dialogue that just doesn't make much sense or that just goes against the slant the player has selected (regardless of which slant they select).

                                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Again, I fervently hope that the writers learned what to avoid and what to do properly, from the mess with ME1-3.  I anticipate another trilogy and since the setting is on a much smaller scale (Helius Cluster) the writers should be able to manage the story arcs without conflicts.

[Laughing_Man]

Do you have an example of when this has ever actually happened?

 

Yes. But the point wasn't to debate a specific example, otherwise I would have mentioned it specifically, the point was the principle of the matter.

[Sartoz]

 

Big Snip

 

All in all, quality writing and interesting stories without too many contrivances should be in the interest of anyone who loves video games, no matter what your political agenda is. The quality of the game itself should come first, that's why we are here after all (me anyway), not to debate politics.

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Totally agree.

What I find interesting is why the push for gender politics? The answer could be that the gender politicos have taken over.  As you say, good stories have no need to preach LGBT issues. Just look at the top 100 best sellers.

 

The premise for Andromeda is colonization not how Harry met Tom.

[9TailsFox]

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Totally agree.

What I find interesting is why the push for gender politics? The answer could be that the gender politicos have taken over.  As you say, good stories have no need to preach LGBT issues. Just look at the top 100 best sellers.

 

The premise for Andromeda is colonization not how Harry met Tom.

Spoiler