489 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

It's a bunch of people who want games to reflect their political views debating whether developers making games and tie products should have them reflect their (the fans) political vies or their own (the developers) political views.

 

Really? You don't say. How typical.

 

Personally I don't want Mass Effect to reflect any political opinion. I want the game not to be preachy, and I want the game to allow the player to form his or her own opinions without being spoon fed on the "correct" political agenda, or anything else for that matter.

 

I want the game to be mature in style, and to respect the intelligence of the people playing it by being subtle and leaving enough space for one to judge on their own what is right or wrong in matters of morality in game.

 

I want more or less the same for a book on this universe. I doubt I'll get my wish, but I'll wait and see.

[straykat]

Really? You don't say. How typical.

 

Personally I don't want Mass Effect to reflect any political opinion. I want the game not to be preachy, and I want the game to allow the player to form his or her own opinions without being spoon fed on the "correct" political agenda, or anything else for that matter.

 

I want the game to be mature in style, and to respect the intelligence of the people playing it by being subtle and leaving enough space for one to judge on their own what is right or wrong in matters of morality in game.

 

I want more or less the same for a book on this universe. I doubt I'll get my wish, but I'll wait and see.

 

That was all their games until recently. Maybe there's hope.

[Han Shot First]

Seriously?  How could that get approved??

 

Thanks for the heads up, I'll pretend it doesn't exist then. 

 

The bolded is what Bioware has done. 

 

The book was so filled with errors and contradictions of previous canon, like for example taking a severely autistic character from a previous book and no longer having her disabled, that Bioware and the publisher initially apologized to fans and promised a rewrite. 

 

The rewrite never happened, probably because there was no money to made from it (and would probably result in Bioware & the publisher losing money), so Bioware has sort of quietly pretended that Deception doesn't exist ever since. I think it's official status is non-canon, given that Bioware treats it like George Lucas does the Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

If you're curious, try the rage comic instead. You'll get a lot more entertainment out of it and won't have to spend a dime.

[In Exile]

Really? You don't say. How typical.

 

Personally I don't want Mass Effect to reflect any political opinion. I want the game not to be preachy, and I want the game to allow the player to form his or her own opinions without being spoon fed on the "correct" political agenda, or anything else for that matter.

 

I want the game to be mature in style, and to respect the intelligence of the people playing it by being subtle and leaving enough space for one to judge on their own what is right or wrong in matters of morality in game.

 

I want more or less the same for a book on this universe. I doubt I'll get my wish, but I'll wait and see.

 

This is nonsense. You can't "not" reflect a political opinion. Especially in a science fiction game, where you're making an affirmative statement about what the future of humanity will look like 200 years from now and what values alien societies that are just built-up of rubber-suit aliens with humans value comprise. 

 

You can't divorce things from politics like that way. It's nonsense. The things people cite as apolitical are just things in line with the political mainstream. 

 

You can't create a game that allows everyone to express whatever opinion they want because resources are a thing. And no one "forces" you form an opinion - that's, again, nonsense. A story can't avoid presenting certain things as good or bad - that's just the nature of the medium. Works reflect the values of their creators, or the values their creators want them to have. 

 

More importantly - even ignoring all of this - the idea that a game - or any entertainment media - should be apolitical, assuming such a thing is possible, is a political position. 

[straykat]

This is nonsense. You can't "not" reflect a political opinion. Especially in a science fiction game, where you're making an affirmative statement about what the future of humanity will look like 200 years from now and what values alien societies that are just built-up of rubber-suit aliens with humans value comprise. 

 

You can't divorce things from politics like that way. It's nonsense. The things people cite as apolitical are just things in line with the political mainstream. 

 

You can't create a game that allows everyone to express whatever opinion they want because resources are a thing. And no one "forces" you form an opinion - that's, again, nonsense. A story can't avoid presenting certain things as good or bad - that's just the nature of the medium. Works reflect the values of their creators, or the values their creators want them to have. 

 

More importantly - even ignoring all of this - the idea that a game - or any entertainment media - should be apolitical, assuming such a thing is possible, is a political position. 

 

I agree with this. That's why I said Dune was my favorite sci-fi novel. I'm definitely not against politics in general.

 

I just tend to think overt messaging sucks. Especially race issues atm. Which only reaches guilt ridden white people anyways.. all of whom need to work out their problems alone instead of talking about it all the time. I'm a minority myself and wish they all shut up and just be happy. The first step to getting along is just live in the moment and enjoy each other's company.

 

And minority writers who incessantly go on about it are just exploiting them. I think they lack self esteem too and get off on the whole thing. /rant

[Seraphim24]

I just realized someone has a user name ElitePinecone... wow that is awesome.

[straykat]

I just realized someone has a user name ElitePinecone... wow that is awesome.

 

Yknow... I should pay attention to the small things too. Makes everything better.

[Laughing_Man]

This is nonsense.

 

This word, nonsense, sums up very well what you just wrote.

 

You really don't understand the meaning of subtlety? Of showing a universe and a story without the author driving their beliefs home with a sledgehammer?

 

Letting an organisation like Cerberus become a symbol of pragmatism without making them a caricature of the idiotic!Evil trope?

 

In general letting the player form their own conclusions without moralizing and putting the feelz in the "right" place so everyone knows what the "right choice" is? *cough*genophage*cough* *cough*Geth-Quarian-War*cough*

[straykat]

It's the same reason Christian novels suck.

 

And I'm a Christian.

 

 

Except when it's Moby Dick and wasn't intended to be proselytizing. It was sincere and natural.

[Seraphim24]

Eww Moby Dick.

[straykat]

Eww Moby Dick.

 

Argh... hates Hitchcock AND Moby Dick.

 

 

Err... that sounds kind of dirty actually.

[Seraphim24]

Argh... hates Hitchcock AND Moby Dick.

 

 

Err... that sounds kind of dirty actually.

 

Yes yes, I've heard it all before.

 

I'd like to think my rejection is based on something more complicated than "Ew Intellectual!" if that's any consolation

 

But yeah speaking of Whales/Sharks did anyone catch that Shallows trailer?

 

Spoiler

[straykat]

I'll respect your opinion. You're honest. That's the best I can ask...

[Seraphim24]

I'll respect your opinion. You're honest. That's the best I can ask...

 

Gee you sound so down , you should come to the KOTOR forum I keep posting cosplay and stuff maybe it'll be fun there

[straykat]

Gee you sound so down , you should come to the KOTOR forum I keep posting cosplay and stuff maybe it'll be fun there

 

No, no.. I'm not. I'm complimenting you. You're not bullshitting me at least.

 

You could replace Moby Dick with... say... Brothers Karamazov. Or Chronicles of Narnia. Maybe U2 the band. My point is that overt Christian media is tacky. But plenty of things in the world are Christian, but not directly so. Same goes for politics.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

The bolded is what Bioware has done. 

 

The book was so filled with errors and contradictions of previous canon, like for example taking a severely autistic character from a previous book and no longer having her disabled, that Bioware and the publisher initially apologized to fans and promised a rewrite. 

Autism wasn't the only thing cured by Deception, it also "cures" a previously gay male character, and cures the quarians of the need to wear environmental suits (they wear hobo rags instead).

 

Gillian also ages like 6 years in the 2 years that have passed since Ascension IIRC. It's loaded with basic continuity and lore errors like this. It gets quarian naming conventions completely wrong. Cerberus is basically a political party where Kai Leng gives official interviews to media outlets and such, rather than a guerrilla/terrorist organization.

 

It's comically, indescribably bad, literally the worst thing I've ever read without any hyperbole. It's almost like a parody, albiet an unintentional one. I'd actually reccomend it, on the basis that it's pretty much impossible to describe or understand how laughably terrible shlock it is unless you've experienced it yourself. You couldn't intentionally write something worse with the source material if you tried.

[Sartoz]

I don't if I agree. Because Dune is my favorite sci-fi novel. And that's got plenty of this.

 

I'm just skeptical of her particular brand. And Herbert wasn't pretentious either.

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I'm a hard core sci-fi with 3k+ novels under my belt. They include fantasy, military, sci-fi and alternate history novels. I can tell when an author is out of his/her depth.

 

Having said that. I loved all of Frank's Dune novels, some better than others. However, Dune is not a hard-core sci-fi. Mass Effect, imo, is.

 

I also expect Jemisin to do her best.

 

 

 

 

[straykat]

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I'm a hard core sci-fi with 3k+ novels under my belt. They include fantasy, military, sci-fi and alternate history novels. I can tell when an author is out of his/her depth.

 

Having said that. I loved all of Frank's Dune novels, some better than others. However, Dune is not a hard-core sci-fi. Mass Effect, imo, is.

 

I also expect Jemisin to do her best.

 

I'll agree it's not hardcore.. it's almost like fantasy or historical fiction set in the future.. I'm just saying he had a lot of interesting political and environmental statements underneath it.

 

I don't know about Mass Effect. It's odd, where it's about new tech, but it's all old knowledge from the past. And humans are just scavengers. No sense of self-potential. Which Dune had in droves.. and most sci-fi espouses.

[Sartoz]

So an ISBN search for the book came up with Titan Books' (the publisher's) catalogue of new releases for Autumn 2016 (which for whatever reason actually means new releases from July-Dec 2016).  

 

I had to use the cached version of the page because it looks like it was removed from the final copy. 

 

https://webcache.goo...n&ct=clnk&gl=au

 

MASS EFFECT ANDROMEDA: INITIATION Author(s): Published: Price: Format: ISBN: Specs: Synopsis:

Lead Title

 

N. K. Jemisin (W) 29 November 2016 £7.99 Paperback 9781785651564 TBC Mass Effect is one of the most successful and critically acclaimed games of its type. The last game moved about 6 million units—it's the largest licensed brand for Electronic Arts. These canonical novels that tie-in with the concept of the next game release. The novels are scheduled to begin release with the next Mass Effect game in 2015.

 

Mass Effect Andromeda will be released for Xbox One, PlayStation 4 and PC.

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Interesting that they still use the 2015 original game release year. These publishers need to get their shyte together.

[ArcadiaGrey]

 

The bolded is what Bioware has done. 

 

The book was so filled with errors and contradictions of previous canon, like for example taking a severely autistic character from a previous book and no longer having her disabled, that Bioware and the publisher initially apologized to fans and promised a rewrite. 

 

The rewrite never happened, probably because there was no money to made from it (and would probably result in Bioware & the publisher losing money), so Bioware has sort of quietly pretended that Deception doesn't exist ever since. I think it's official status is non-canon, given that Bioware treats it like George Lucas does the Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

If you're curious, try the rage comic instead. You'll get a lot more entertainment out of it and won't have to spend a dime.

 

Damn that sucks, I would've hoped BioWare would've had more respect for their IP and fans.

I'm reading the comic now, I never knew Doc Brown invented a De-Autism-izer...I must've missed that bit of the movie. 

 

Autism wasn't the only thing cured by Deception, it also "cures" a previously gay male character, and cures the quarians of the need to wear environmental suits (they wear hobo rags instead).

 

Gillian also ages like 6 years in the 2 years that have passed since Ascension IIRC. It's loaded with basic continuity and lore errors like this. It gets quarian naming conventions completely wrong. Cerberus is basically a political party where Kai Leng gives official interviews to media outlets and such, rather than a guerrilla/terrorist organization.

 

It's comically, indescribably bad, literally the worst thing I've ever read without any hyperbole. It's almost like a parody, albiet an unintentional one. I'd actually reccomend it, on the basis that it's pretty much impossible to describe or understand how laughably terrible shlock it is unless you've experienced it yourself. You couldn't intentionally write something worse with the source material if you tried.

 

Are you kidding me?  Someone is un-gayed and the Quarians don't need suits?  Ffs.

You're making me wanna read it now. 

[Sartoz]

She's literally been nominated more than once for the most prestigious science fiction and speculative fiction awards in the world. 

 

She wrote a novel last year on the geophysics of exoplanets. 

                                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Jemisin is a very good speculative fiction writer. Her nominations (see below) proves it but also proves they were all in the fantasy category.

 

From Wiki:

• 2010 Nebula Award, for The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms^[12]
• 2010 Goodreads Choice Award, for The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms^[13]
• 2010 Hugo Award, for Non-Zero Probabilities^[14]
• 2010 Nebula Award, for Non-Zero Probabilities^[15]
• 2011 Hugo Award, for The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms
• 2011 World Fantasy Award, for The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms^[16]
• 2012 Nebula Award, for The Killing Moon^[17]

 

^{I expect, then, that the novel Andromeda: Initiation will contain less emphasis about the ARKON Project, the science or science fiction of it,  but more about the characters. This speculation is based on her remark regarding the cardboard characters of ME1. It is very well possible that the characters from the novel may make their way into the game...}

 

^{My preference is for a sci-fi story worthy of Mass Effect. As an intro to the Andromeda game, I prefer something along the lines of  the inner workings of the Planners in personnel selection, the required skill sets, the type of preferred colonists and their numbers, food, seeds, resource mining equipment, terra forming equipment, defense equipment, educational data bases, linguist specialists, computer specialist, military training and skill sets, exploration, preparations for hostilities and finally colony management via a War Room control centre. Also some info regarding the number/how large the type of ship(s) (ie: multi-generational ) or via cold-sleep.}

 

                                                                                            O R

 

She'll fool us all and write about the colony ship(s) just arriving into the Helius Cluster and the INITIATION is all about the human struggles both internal and external in finding a new home.

      

[In Exile]

I agree with this. That's why I said Dune was my favorite sci-fi novel. I'm definitely not against politics in general.

I just tend to think overt messaging sucks. Especially race issues atm. Which only reaches guilt ridden white people anyways.. all of whom need to work out their problems alone instead of talking about it all the time. I'm a minority myself and wish they all shut up and just be happy. The first step to getting along is just live in the moment and enjoy each other's company.

And minority writers who incessantly go on about it are just exploiting them. I think they lack self esteem too and get off on the whole thing. /rant

I agree that there's a huge gulf between "writing, which inevitably involves politics" and "good writing". Any work basically designed from the start to push an agenda - particularly written by someone who is not a good writer - will be painful garbage (I'm looking at you, Rand). At that point, you should just write an essay, not a novel.

I probably count as a minority (of the invisible kind). Never grew up close to my roots. Can't stand most forms of political writing - especially highly politicized modern writing on issues that plague America (like race) because I'm from a place where 1) these issues are really different and 2) the aesop is either painfully simple, the book is bad and should just have been an essay or the whole message is comically hypocritical and mises the very point of what it wants to convey (e.g. you can't have abuse outside of a heterosexual relationship, you can't be racist if the group you're maligning is in the majority, all issues reduce to one of class/race/gender without any regard for intersectionality).

But there's a big gulf between "I hope [X] doesn't write a **** book" and the silly argument that works can be apolitical.

[In Exile]

This word, nonsense, sums up very well what you just wrote.

You really don't understand the meaning of subtlety? Of showing a universe and a story without the author driving their beliefs home with a sledgehammer?

Letting an organisation like Cerberus become a symbol of pragmatism without making them a caricature of the idiotic!Evil trope?

In general letting the player form their own conclusions without moralizing and putting the feelz in the "right" place so everyone knows what the "right choice" is? *cough*genophage*cough* *cough*Geth-Quarian-War*cough*

See above. All of this is about **** writing, not apolitical writing. And not every issue is fair and balanced, and two sides aren't always equal. It's absurd to suggest that writing should be about moral equivalent - writers are entitled to think that choices are right or wrong and convey that point - this is how we get an interesting intellectual debate on a point told through stories.

None of this means it's OK to have stuff like ME1 - which was actually the worst offender on geth Quarian stuff - where Shepard is basically stuck telling Tali her people deserved genocide.

[straykat]

I agree that there's a huge gulf between "writing, which inevitably involves politics" and "good writing". Any work basically designed from the start to push an agenda - particularly written by someone who is not a good writer - will be painful garbage (I'm looking at you, Rand). At that point, you should just write an essay, not a novel.

I probably count as a minority (of the invisible kind). Never grew up close to my roots. Can't stand most forms of political writing - especially highly politicized modern writing on issues that plague America (like race) because I'm from a place where 1) these issues are really different and 2) the aesop is either painfully simple, the book is bad and should just have been an essay or the whole message is comically hypocritical and mises the very point of what it wants to convey (e.g. you can't have abuse outside of a heterosexual relationship, you can't be racist if the group you're maligning is in the majority, all issues reduce to one of class/race/gender without any regard for intersectionality).

But there's a big gulf between "I hope [X] doesn't write a **** book" and the silly argument that works can be apolitical.

 

I hate running out of likes. I'll agree. I hope it didn't come off like I was ranting at you or anything. Just airing some grievances.

[Draining Dragon]

Autism wasn't the only thing cured by Deception, it also "cures" a previously gay male character, and cures the quarians of the need to wear environmental suits (they wear hobo rags instead).
 
Gillian also ages like 6 years in the 2 years that have passed since Ascension IIRC. It's loaded with basic continuity and lore errors like this. It gets quarian naming conventions completely wrong. Cerberus is basically a political party where Kai Leng gives official interviews to media outlets and such, rather than a guerrilla/terrorist organization.
 
It's comically, indescribably bad, literally the worst thing I've ever read without any hyperbole. It's almost like a parody, albiet an unintentional one. I'd actually reccomend it, on the basis that it's pretty much impossible to describe or understand how laughably terrible shlock it is unless you've experienced it yourself. You couldn't intentionally write something worse with the source material if you tried.

I need to read this now.