176 réponses à ce sujet

[78stonewobble]

1. I was just saying that since most of the industry caters to a certain demographic,

2. that demographic just because they are more numerous cannot say they deserves it more,

3. because that's implying the industry should ignore any other demographic

4. which would lead to even less exposition for underrepresented demographic.

 

Watch the video of jim sterling in my first message if you need a reminder. 5. Bioware can decides to cater to anyone they want, if they decides to go for a transexual romance in the next game, the last thing someone should do would be saying : "Oh transexual are just a small minority, why don't you cater to me instead, I am in the majority".

 

Now that said I am not saying they should ignore their previous audience (pretty much the reason I talked about the "audience there from the beginning"), 6. But I just feel asking for advantage is not right, 7. its entitled to say other demographics should be ignored or relegated when most of the industry already does it.

 

8. And remember I said it because of some comments that I have seen, I am not saying all of the industry is like that, I said that it was just a part of the fanbase.

 

1. The industry does not cater to... it is representative of the demographics. It's like saying the clothes industry caters to women only, because there are more money in womens clothes, female models make more money and bra adverts are made with women in mind. So have you written the same complaints to major fashion houses and the fashion magazines?

 

2. Actually they do deserve it more... because they are by being a majority paying for most of the industry.... If their needs are not met, they will pull their money out. 

 

3. No, it isn't... But if you wanna sell a buttload of something, you wanna have a buttload of customers, meaning you target the biggest demographic. However this will mean that competition is fierce and naturally companies will try ways to gain new customers and new markets... Gain a niche foot hold. 

 

4. Most underrepresented demographics are underrepresented because they really are a small minority, that their needs are easily met by the mainstream offers or that most people think it's a non issue. How's that lefthanded representation going in me3? You know... there are people who think I should be beaten and tied down til I learn to write with my right hand and deserve to burn in hell as long as I use my left hand... And yet... I'm not here insisting lefthanded representation. 

 

5. Offcourse bioware can make products for whomever they want to... Noones disagreeing. 

 

6. But yet... asking for eg. transexual representation disproportionate to demographics is asking for an advantage... it's asking for transexuals to count for 10 others. 

 

7. Yes... It is being entitled ... to feels so good, that you are worth 10 of the others. 

 

8. I get your point ... I really do... but from my perspective, there is no difference between the arguments. 

 

One is saying:

 

1 person X is worth 10 persons Y. 

 

The other is saying:

 

1 person Y is worth 10 persons X. 

 

Both are positions of entitlement, whereas I say 1 person X is equal to 1 person Y and thus it comes down to how many persons X and Y, who you wanna sell to and how much...  Aka. demographics and representation according to.

 

PS: Bioware can make whatever games for whomever they want for all I care... Due to personal tastes there are some I'd be interested in and some I would not be. I don't care if there's 1 or 10 transexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, nonsexuals, green space monkeys, handicapped people, lefthanded people, mentally ill or what not in mass effect andromeda... as long as I can immerse myself in the game and have fun with it.

 

But I genuinely think that any speak of entitlement... must be on the behalf of those, who expects to have equal representation as to 2, 5, 10's or hundreds of others regarding target demopgraphic and In general I don't think you can fight any kind of 'ism, by reverse 'ism... then it's just a sad reveal that we haven't learned anything at all about respecting eachother.

[Mummy22kids]

Didn't read all of the first post or much that came after it but they probably just used Femshep because she was already doing stuff for DAI and SWTOR expansions.  It was probably just the most convenient thing to do.

[N7M]

It's a shame I have to leave it censored in order to make sure it doesn't get deleted. It really loses it's punch.

 

No, even censored it looks as punch drunk.

[serviteur de femto]

Didn't we already have that with the Citadel DLC?

 

Yes and no at the same time, let's just say the new teaser did it in an other way, a way it would have been worth doing it for both sheppard.

[serviteur de femto]

1. The industry does not cater to... it is representative of the demographics. It's like saying the clothes industry caters to women only, because there are more money in womens clothes, female models make more money and bra adverts are made with women in mind. So have you written the same complaints to major fashion houses and the fashion magazines?

 

2. Actually they do deserve it more... because they are by being a majority paying for most of the industry.... If their needs are not met, they will pull their money out. 

 

3. No, it isn't... But if you wanna sell a buttload of something, you wanna have a buttload of customers, meaning you target the biggest demographic. However this will mean that competition is fierce and naturally companies will try ways to gain new customers and new markets... Gain a niche foot hold. 

 

4. Most underrepresented demographics are underrepresented because they really are a small minority, that their needs are easily met by the mainstream offers or that most people think it's a non issue. How's that lefthanded representation going in me3? You know... there are people who think I should be beaten and tied down til I learn to write with my right hand and deserve to burn in hell as long as I use my left hand... And yet... I'm not here insisting lefthanded representation. 

 

5. Offcourse bioware can make products for whomever they want to... Noones disagreeing. 

 

6. But yet... asking for eg. transexual representation disproportionate to demographics is asking for an advantage... it's asking for transexuals to count for 10 others. 

 

7. Yes... It is being entitled ... to feels so good, that you are worth 10 of the others. 

 

8. I get your point ... I really do... but from my perspective, there is no difference between the arguments. 

 

One is saying:

 

1 person X is worth 10 persons Y. 

 

The other is saying:

 

1 person Y is worth 10 persons X. 

 

Both are positions of entitlement, whereas I say 1 person X is equal to 1 person Y and thus it comes down to how many persons X and Y, who you wanna sell to and how much...  Aka. demographics and representation according to.

 

PS: Bioware can make whatever games for whomever they want for all I care... Due to personal tastes there are some I'd be interested in and some I would not be. I don't care if there's 1 or 10 transexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, nonsexuals, green space monkeys, handicapped people, lefthanded people, mentally ill or what not in mass effect andromeda... as long as I can immerse myself in the game and have fun with it.

 

But I genuinely think that any speak of entitlement... must be on the behalf of those, who expects to have equal representation as to 2, 5, 10's or hundreds of others regarding target demopgraphic and In general I don't think you can fight any kind of 'ism, by reverse 'ism... then it's just a sad reveal that we haven't learned anything at all about respecting eachother.

 

1. And technically it is, most of the industry caters to straight, bioware is the one trying to offer it to some people, like david gaider said "many of our customer are neither straight or male and they deserves no less attention"

 

2. That's their choice, if somebody is not willing to pay just because he is not cattered to completely. But that is not a moral oligation from the company

 

3, Yes that's a commercial strategy but again not a moral obligation. Having a white straight male protagonist is the best way to sell more but it does not mean the company HAS to do it.

 

4. Lefthanded is not the same thing, Who would really be unable to relate to a lefthanded just because he is righthanded? Seriously. I never heard someone being unable to identify to someone because he does not write form the same hand has them. sure their might be psycho that really thinks its writing with the devil's hands, but did there is really a large threat or opression to left handed people in the world AT THIS MOMENT?

 

5.

 

6. Actually I am not saying transexual SHOULD be presented as much, I just said that if Bioware decides they will, nobody should complain just because they are not catered too. I just think anyone can ask for equality and that's it.

 

7.So every games, tv shows or movies should only have 5 to 10% of lgbt characters because that's the percentage they are in society and if someone decides to do more than this percentage, its not fair?. If its made in USA, black characters should only be 12,6%

 

Look, maybe I should say it differently,

 

if a transexual person say "we deserves as much attention in the media as any other alternative sexuality, we should have half of the representation as the cisgender", ok it could be entitlement because that is asking an industry to caters to them instead of others and it would interfere in the commercial obligation some company have. I get that

 

BUT, if a company among all the big ones from pop culture (tv show, video game, comic, movie) decides to cater to LGBT just as much as the straight, I don't think heterosexual people could come there and says that this particular piece of art needs to cater to them primarly just because they are more numerous and most of the industry already does it so that should do it as well.

[N7Jamaican]

TL;DR. Can anyone sum it up for me?

[serviteur de femto]

I think he speak about that youtube account : https://www.youtube....oBO2ciQQ/videos

 

But maybe I am wrong.

[aoibhealfae]

This already exist...

 

I'm quite amazed at the rage from the 2015 teaser alone considering there's only one trailer and one teaser that officially portrayed Shepard as a woman... compared to every Mass Effect trailer and promotional materials and cover arts and toys that consistently portrayed Mark Vanderloo with Mark Meer's voice as Shepard. 

 

Shepard has always been a woman for me. A strong-willed gorgeous sexy female soldier who defy machine gods, stuck up politicians and crazy megalomaniacs. Why would I trade this for a pouty male supermodel with a fake tan? Seriously people...

[Gileadan]

People get seriously worked up about the "signing off" trailer? How so? It can't have anything to do with canon, since its message seems completely detached from the main storyline of Mass Effect. Wasn't its sole purpose to make sure that everyone understood that Shepard and the Milky Way wouldn't be a part of the next game? It seems quite a few people are overthinking this a lot.

[serviteur de femto]

This already exist...

 

I'm quite amazed at the rage from the 2015 teaser alone considering there's only one trailer and one teaser that officially portrayed Shepard as a woman... compared to every Mass Effect trailer and promotional materials and cover arts and toys that consistently portrayed Mark Vanderloo with Mark Meer's voice as Shepard. 

 

Shepard has always been a woman for me. A strong-willed gorgeous sexy female soldier who defy machine gods, stuck up politicians and crazy megalomaniacs. Why would I trade this for a pouty male supermodel with a fake tan? Seriously people...

 

This teaser was more of an all team goodbye, instead of the last sayings of sheppard. That's different

 

Like I explain time and time again, if the trailer is purely promotional not a problem if it is only on a female, when its a tribute to the character itself and a final it should be on both player character. I repeat it again, I am fine with a marketing campaign that is mostly on a female pathfinder for MEA.

 

Your canon sheppard is your buisness, its actually irrelevant because everybody has his own.

 

And this trailer I am pretty sure only exists with a femshep in it : http://www.jeuxvideo...in-00036973.htm

 

I admit that's a small compensation, but maybe you should think about what I wrote before, the problem is that its in a specific kind of trailer (tribute instead of promotion) that there is a problem if its one gender. Not that there is a trailer with only a female.

 

It would be just as problematic if it was only on maleshep.

[Lady Artifice]

I just don't think the teaser was meant as a "goodbye," at all, at least not for us.

[serviteur de femto]

I just don't think the teaser was meant as a "goodbye," at all, at least not to us.

 

What it is then?

[Lady Artifice]

Everything in the promotional material is about looking forward, anticipating what's to come. I think the Devs routinely underestimate how fixated this fanbase can become on their personal interpretation of Shepard. They'd probably be better off never mentioning Shepard again, because it inevitable stirs up this strange impression with the fans that the character's story isn't over, contrary to all evidence.

 

There was never any indication we'd even hear from Shepard again after ME3. That was the time to say goodbye, years ago.

[serviteur de femto]

Everything in the promotional material is about looking forward, anticipating what's to come. I think the Devs routinely underestimate how fixated this fanbase can become on their personal interpretation of Shepard. They'd probably be better off never mentioning Shepard again, because it inevitable stirs up this strange impression with the fans that the character's story isn't over, contrary to all evidence.

 

There was never any indication we'd even hear from Shepard again after ME3. That was the time to say goodbye, years ago.

 

Well it maybe my point of view but for me it was pretty much a final goodbye AND passing the torch to the new generation.

 

But I agree that their should not be any canon sheppard, I would be pissed if my sheppard had to be different than the one I have created and I don't want the kotor treatment of Revan in mass effect.

[AlanC9]

I still don't see the point of all this. Doing two versuons of that trailer would have been kinda dopey.

[serviteur de femto]

I still don't see the point of all this. Doing two versuons of that trailer would have been kinda dopey.

 

It would have allowed both voice actor to say goodbye to the franchise and fans of both sheppard to hear their favorite characters passing the torch to the new generation.

[Atomkick]

It would have allowed both voice actor to say goodbye to the franchise and fans of both sheppard to hear their favorite characters passing the torch to the new generation.

 

I was going to say that. Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale, voicing each sentence one after the another and both saying "signing off" at the end of the video would have been awesome imo.

[serviteur de femto]

I was going to say that. Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale, voicing each sentence one after the another and both saying "signing off" at the end of the video would have been awesome imo.

 

Indeed

[KaiserShep]

I was going to say that. Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale, voicing each sentence one after the another and both saying "signing off" at the end of the video would have been awesome imo.

The first part would be alright with each voice getting parts in each sentence, but where it would be kind of weird is where the "signing off" line is. Having both say it one after the other or at the same time would be pretty bad.

[Atomkick]

The first part would be alright with each voice getting parts in each sentence, but where it would be kind of weird is where the "signing off" line is. Having both say it one after the other or at the same time would be pretty bad.

 

I get it, simply because of their distinct voice but it can be managed through editing and toning up with the background score.

[aoibhealfae]

This teaser was more of an all team goodbye, instead of the last sayings of sheppard. That's different

 

Like I explain time and time again, if the trailer is purely promotional not a problem if it is only on a female, when its a tribute to the character itself and a final it should be on both player character. I repeat it again, I am fine with a marketing campaign that is mostly on a female pathfinder for MEA.

 

Your canon sheppard is your buisness, its actually irrelevant because everybody has his own.

 

And this trailer I am pretty sure only exists with a femshep in it : http://www.jeuxvideo...in-00036973.htm

 

I admit that's a small compensation, but maybe you should think about what I wrote before, the problem is that its in a specific kind of trailer (tribute instead of promotion) that there is a problem if its one gender. Not that there is a trailer with only a female.

 

It would be just as problematic if it was only on maleshep.

 

No. Its a teaser to Mass Effect Andromeda where the Ark was revealed to be somewhere outside the milky way. Shepard's final goodbye was the end of Citadel DLC.

 

Those are gameplay trailer, not cinematic trailers (that cost several millions per minute to make). Looking through all Bioware cinematic trailers, fact is they never was willing to invest a lot of money to feature a genuine female main protagonist in their games (even Female Inquisitor never reveal her face). And FemShep's ME3 cinematic trailer was a mirror copy to BroShep's trailer. They don't even create Kaidan in Ashley's place to prove that she is an option. 

 

 

Mass Effect 3 is the last installment and they officially debut FemShep who existed for years since the development of Mass Effect 1. You wanted equal representation of both Shepard but how come you haven't mention the lack of FemShep's representation since 2007. Lack, as in exactly zero content for ME1 and ME2 FemShep. That is how worthless she was because they think a female protagonist won't sell despite the game offered you that choice to play her. But you see any of us demanding Bioware to redo ME1 and ME2 cinematic trailers for FemShep?

 

If you wanted Mark Meer to do voice over for the teaser, go to twitter and his facebook. Ask him directly.

[serviteur de femto]

No. Its a teaser to Mass Effect Andromeda where the Ark was revealed to be somewhere outside the milky way. Shepard's final goodbye was the end of Citadel DLC.

 

Those are gameplay trailer, not cinematic trailers (that cost several millions per minute to make). Looking through all Bioware cinematic trailers, fact is they never was willing to invest a lot of money to feature a genuine female main protagonist in their games (even Female Inquisitor never reveal her face). And FemShep's ME3 cinematic trailer was a mirror copy to BroShep's trailer. They don't even create Kaidan in Ashley's place to prove that she is an option. 

 

Mass Effect 3 is the last installment and they officially debut FemShep who existed for years since the development of Mass Effect 1. You wanted equal representation of both Shepard but how come you haven't mention the lack of FemShep's representation since 2007. Lack, as in exactly zero content for ME1 and ME2 FemShep. That is how worthless she was because they think a female protagonist won't sell despite the game offered you that choice to play her. But you see any of us demanding Bioware to redo ME1 and ME2 cinematic trailers for FemShep?

 

If you wanted Mark Meer to do voice over for the teaser, go to twitter and his facebook. Ask him directly.

 

WOW relax, calm down, If I did something that offended you, it was not my intention. Sorry

 

l agree that it was bad that femshep was neglected, I am not denying this, like I said, the trailer I showed you was a small compensation (if it was any but its not I'll give you that).

 

But don't tell me no femshep fans ever asked for a trailer because one was made specifically for you (and that one was cgi which means it cost a lot like you said) and there was a contest to get female sheppard on the cover. And I highly doubts that there was really no asking for that from the fans.

 

And like I told before, that was a VICTORY, it was something to be proud off that there was a femshep trailer, and I am more than happy than there is. And if it was there due ot the push back of the femshep fans, the push back was more than justified.

 

Its like I told sardakaurelite which you can read a few message back : "But don't you think the femshep fan won something when bioware did that? I mean we got a new trailer with a Iconic character! I think in some ways its a victory that should be congratulated."

 

But you have a point, Even if I did mention at the beginning the arguments between the two sides, I should have mention the lack of attention femshep had in the marketing before (so an other point for you). And let me tell you I think she deserves just as much attention as maleshep.

 

But come on, don't tell me you don't see a final goodbye in that teaser, its clearly a "passing torch to the new generation" the last time we hear sheppard, so yeah that teaser is the final goodbye.

 

And plz telling me I should ask mark meer to do it on tweeter... yeah because its the job of meer to code on final cut pro, record his voice for free, and basically do the job of bioware. 

 

I am sorry for not having mention enough that femshep was neglected, you are right about that since it was important to this topic, but plz think about what you just said...

 

(Oh and I could return again and again in my first post that this N7 day trailer is special compare to any other teaser (I don't know how many times I will have to repeat that)).

[Dalinne]

 

If you wanted Mark Meer to do voice over for the teaser, go to twitter and his facebook. Ask him directly.

 

^ Raphael Sbarge and Kimberly Brooks (Kaidan and Ashley voices) recorded a voice-version of the email post Horizon for fans. Mark Meer has already participated in the video "Hidden History MASS EFFECT ft. Commander Shepard" by ShoddyCast (I don't know if they paid him).

 

In general  I think ME voice-actors are pretty cool and lovely with fans. Of course you can't assume Mark Meer is gonna do something for free just because you demand it (assuming direct control!!!) but I'm sure if you tell him about it and he is not contractually obligated not to do so, maybe he would voice the N7 trailer.

 

 

[serviteur de femto]

 

^ Raphael Sbarge and Kimberly Brooks (Kaidan and Ashley voices) recorded a voice-version of the email post Horizon for fans. Mark Meer has already participated in the video "Hidden History MASS EFFECT ft. Commander Shepard" by ShoddyCast (I don't know if they paid him).

 

In general  I think ME voice-actors are pretty cool and lovely with fans. Of course you can't assume Mark Meer is gonna do something for free just because you demand it (assuming direct control!!!) but I'm sure if you tell him about it and he is not contractually obligated not to do so, maybe he would voice the N7 trailer.

 

 

 

 

really? well I never heard about that but It would be awesome if it happen with this teaser.

 

but let's say the trailer is a bit old, I don't have a twitter or facebook account and I am superbad (like REALLY ****** bad) with technology.

 

But even If the fans could make this true (and I am sure we could) I just think it would be a little bit of a shame that we had to do the final goodbye ourselves. I just feel the dev should have thought about it since its their job. Now don't get me wrong its not BAD there is no maleshep version of that teaser, just a little BIT of a shame.

 

At this point, I am not really asking for bioware to do the teaser again with maleshep, if they do it I would congratulate them, but my writings are more to tell them that if they make a tribute again and that tribute is passing the torch to a new generation or a final goodbye, they should give the chance to both voice actor who voiced the player characters.

 

Its more informative for the future than it is directly asking to do anything right now. I am not excepting them to redo the N7 teaser, more than they keep that information in mind for their other franchise and the next time they will do that kind of teaser.

[ArabianIGoggles]

No better, no worse, than MalShep or FemShep :-))

Never heard anybody call male Shepard MalShep.  It's always Shep or FemShep.