71 réponses à ce sujet

[NRO TYN]

About con, warriors naturally level up health at a excellent level, so it's one stat they really don't need to invest in.

 

Do you have Return to Ostagar? Cailan's Armor set does a excellent job of health regeneration. Shale also does a good job of buffing the party in her buff mode, forget the name if you've done that dlc.

I certainly do! I got the DA Ultimate addition from Steam on sale . To bad Steam don't got DA2 anymore. Now I gotta buy it from EA crappy Origins, and in pieces too .
 

Keep on the lookout for gear that buffs stamina or willpower.  Stamina regen gear is helpful.  Also nice to have an armor set with a fatigue bonus.  That's why Wade's Superior Dragonscale is very nice, but you don't get that until later most likely.

 

Berserker Champion will work, it just won't be quite as straightforward as Templar-Champion overall.

 

What is Alistair's build and tactics setup?  Tanks can go on autopilot reasonably well in my experience, but your 2H Warden and possibly mages will need the micro.  Ideally you could get some tactics setup for the mages that are helpful when you can't control them (support powers).

 

edit:  Precise Striking buffs all attacks, auto or talents.  The swing speed penalty doesn't apply to the talents though.  It's a sustain though, just like Indomitable, so don't activate it until you've used a few powers.  Sustains "reserve" stamina, so activating them after you have used some stamina on active talents is more efficient than running them in and out of combat.

 

Also forgot to mention that you need to get Death Blow as soon after Level 12 as possible since this will give you stamina back for each kill.

His Will is really 15, he just gets an extra 3 from Templar armor, and 1+ from Runic Token. Magic really 12, and Con is really 17. For Magic and Con, I think the boost come from his Templar spec iirc

 

 

Also whats the diffrence between using a say health potions at Self: Health < 50% and Self: Health > 50%???? That s*** is mad confusing lmao

[NRO TYN]

capn's dead on above. Agree with pretty much everything he's said, though I'd go a step further on powerful blows and say that it's absolute garbage. I wouldn't trade 5 attack and defence for 5 damage on a 2h if it was free, let alone cost 2 talent points. Sweep is worth the terrible pre-requisites though.

 

At the same time I loaded an old save of mine (DN, 2h solo, 1 cun then every point into strength). Here's its stats and screenshots of the first fight in jarvia's hideout (an easy one, but it's where I happened to be up to): http://imgur.com/a/pr4Ye

If you're wondering, haste icon is from a mod that increases movement speed out of battle. I also don't know why I had powerful blows in my talent bar. Maybe my opinion wasn't as strong back then.

 

For the fight itself, I basically ran at the archer. He has shattering shot right at the top of his tactics which is no fun when a high armour value is the only thing keeping you alive. Pommel striked then sundered arms to try and kill him (both hits missed... yay. Also the only 2 misses of the fight). By then everyone else had caught up to me, and the archer was standing up, so it was sweep time. Mighty blow finished off the archer, and with no more possible -armour nothing else could hit me for harder than 1 damage.

 

I took a fair bit more damage than I would in vanilla because I run a mod that fixes DWE (only thing that could hurt me, everything else was reduced to 1 damage) to its intended damage. Probably should've killed the DW second but doesn't really matter.

 

Items are better than you'd expect someone in a party to have, but not that ridiculous. Most of my gold was spent on spell resistance (100% in that screenshot, not that you can tell), which also has the side effect of tonnes of +willpower. Warden commander boots were also helping out with stamina. That and deathblows is why I started with indomitable and precise striking on - early game I only turn them on after burning some talents. Other big item was lifegiver.

 

Male Dwarfs in skirts are just silly lol. But thank you for the screen shot, but what items were you working with if I may ask?

Also I don't plan on going templar.

[Qis]

Your tank supposed to have high CON to be a TANK, the one who can take damage a lot and stay alive, classic D&D philosophy

 

Two Handed Warrior in DA:O is actually a meltdown toward hybrid character, will not be as good as tank, but can deliver high damage but not as good as DPSer and Nuker. DA:O is an in-between traditional D&D and new wave hybrid characters in gaming, Bioware want to break away from the tradition.

 

In classic D&D, a tank will not deal high damage, it's role solely taking damage and still stay alive. Of course other types of character can tanking but they are not tanks.

 

So buff up Alistair CON, don't mind about his damage output, but mind about his health and defense

 

Oh and he's also a hybrid, an Anti-Mage, semi warrior-cleric (or warrior-mage), or in D&D tradition a Paladin (or Spellsword), build him as Paladin (or Spellsword), having high willpower and magic, less combat but can take damage considerably and purposely anti-spellcasters, undeads, warlock and magical creatures

[NRO TYN]

Your tank supposed to have high CON to be a TANK, the one who can take damage a lot and stay alive, classic D&D philosophy

 

Two Handed Warrior in DA:O is actually a meltdown toward hybrid character, will not be as good as tank, but can deliver high damage but not as good as DPSer and Nuker. DA:O is an in-between traditional D&D and new wave hybrid characters in gaming, Bioware want to break away from the tradition.

 

In classic D&D, a tank will not deal high damage, it's role solely taking damage and still stay alive. Of course other types of character can tanking but they are not tanks.

 

So buff up Alistair CON, don't mind about his damage, but mind about his health and defense

 

Oh and he's also a hybrid, an Anti-Mage, semi warrior-cleric (or warrior-mage), or in D&D tradition a Paladin (or Spellsword), build him as Paladin (or Spellsword), having high willpower and magic, less combat but can take damage considerably and purposely anti-spellcasters, undeads, warlock and magical creatures

 

I will take this into consideration as I do want him to be somewhat of a tank. But I don't wanna always bring him along. As I like to run with all my NPCs as well.

[dainbramage]

Male Dwarfs in skirts are just silly lol. But thank you for the screen shot, but what items were you working with if I may ask?

Also I don't plan on going templar.

 

In that screenshot,

 

Starfang (2x Master Dweomer rune, some shitty hale rune)

Knight-Commander's Plate

Helm of Honnleath
Gloves of Diligence (despite soloing all combat, I let leliana pick locks for me)

Warden Commander boots

Spellward

Key to the City

Lifegiver

Whatever that +1 strength belt that old tegrin sells is called

 

Eventually upgraded gloves to cailan's, belt to andruil's blessing, weapon to chasind great maul, boots to diligence (IIRC). Eventually I also kept evon the great's mail and wade's superior gloves and boots for boss fights where there were no casters.

 

For looks - I generally don't give dwarves templar armour for that reason. In a party it'd always be a human, but I was min-maxing this guy since it was a solo.

[Qis]

I will take this into consideration as I do want him to be somewhat of a tank. But I don't wanna always bring him along. As I like to run with all my NPCs as well.

 

If you know the basic D&D rule, you can go well, and play along with it's system, the game will go fine without min maxing. But because of DA:O is a meltdown toward new wave of gaming, min maxers also can do, and it's an endless debate between traditionalist like me and new generation gamers (i am 36 by the way, i play games since computers using big floppy disc)

 

Interestingly DA:O provide freedom to build, not like DA2 and DA:I, that's why i respect DA:O

[dainbramage]

Your tank supposed to have high CON to be a TANK, the one who can take damage a lot and stay alive, classic D&D philosophy

 

Two Handed Warrior in DA:O is actually a meltdown toward hybrid character, will not be as good as tank, but can deliver high damage but not as good as DPSer and Nuker. DA:O is an in-between traditional D&D and new wave hybrid characters in gaming, Bioware want to break away from the tradition.

 

In classic D&D, a tank will not deal high damage, it's role solely taking damage and still stay alive. Of course other types of character can tanking but they are not tanks.

 

So buff up Alistair CON, don't mind about his damage output, but mind about his health and defense

 

Oh and he's also a hybrid, an Anti-Mage, semi warrior-cleric (or warrior-mage), or in D&D tradition a Paladin (or Spellsword), build him as Paladin (or Spellsword), having high willpower and magic, less combat but can take damage considerably and purposely anti-spellcasters, undeads, warlock and magical creatures

 

If you want Alistair to be a pure tank give him high dex and a dagger. Not taking damage > having more hp.

 

As for attributes, magic, what?

 

EDIT: Also, I should mention everything in this thread by me has been about effectiveness. If you want different stats for roleplay, more power to you. But since that's everyone's personal brand of subjectiveness I generally don't give advice for it.

[Qis]

If you want Alistair to be a pure tank give him high dex and a dagger. Not taking damage > having more hp.

 

As for attributes, magic, what?

 

EDIT: Also, I should mention everything in this thread by me has been about effectiveness. If you want different stats for roleplay, more power to you. But since that's everyone's personal brand of subjectiveness I generally don't give advice for it.

 

Dex and Dagger don't deflect against enemy power attacks and magic attacks, like i said other types of characters can tanking but not tanks. Dex characters can tanking but not a tank.

 

Magic makes poultices more effective, being a tank that take a lot of damage, surely you will be "chugging poultices"(it is funny because poultice is not supposed to be chugged in real life, but we can see how Bioware don't want to use the traditional "potion"). Magic also increase mental resistance

[capn233]

His Will is really 15, he just gets an extra 3 from Templar armor, and 1+ from Runic Token. Magic really 12, and Con is really 17. For Magic and Con, I think the boost come from his Templar spec iirc

 

...snip...

 

Also whats the diffrence between using a say health potions at Self: Health < 50% and Self: Health > 50%???? That s*** is mad confusing lmao

 

The tactic system is a little confusing at first, but it is pretty powerful when you get the hang of it.  At least for some tasks.

 

The best way to think of it is a series of If-Then statements where you pick a condition, and then pick an action.  The numbers are priority, so number 1 has highest priority.  The game will check them in sequence and if the condition is met, and the action can occur (talent not on cooldown, enough mana / stamina, etc), it will perform the action.  Once it performs an action, it goes back to the top.

 

So for health pots, you want to use a < whatever number.  That way when he is at high or full health he doesn't try to use a pot, but if it drops then he will.

 

Generally you put sustains like Shield Wall at the top if you want them to be run all the time.  Threaten also can go up there, although it isn't hugely efficient until Alistair can output some damage.

 

Next you can put the actives.  The first job Alistair has is to stay alive.  That means healing with pots should be at the top of this section, unless you want to always manually control them (I do not for the tank).  Next I go with Taunts, and then CC.  Since damage dealing helps grab aggro, you try to fit in a generic attack order near the bottom.

 

So a basic tactic set for him that should work ok would be something like this:

 

Self: Any ---- Activate Shield Wall

Self: Health < 50% ---- Use Lesser Health Poultice / Health Poultice Least Powerful* whatever

Self:  Surrounded by 3 enemies --- Taunt

Enemy:  Attacking Morrigan --- Shield Bash

Enemy: Attacking Wynne  --- Shield Bash

Enemy: Nearest Visible --- Attack

 

*I have the Advanced Tactics mod which changes a few things in tactics, and I don't quite remember the exact options for poultices in base game.  With the mod it is "Health Poultice: Least Powerful" or you can go most powerful, and it will pick out of what is available.

 

I actually don't typically run lines like the Shield Bash ones for my tactics, because I would do that manually.  So I might have

 

Enemy: Nearest Visible /  Health < 75% --- Shield Pummel

 

Thrown in there somewhere.  Just depends on what you want the AI to be able to do on their own.  The most important things though are the health pots and taunt.  You want him to Taunt as much as possible to keep the heat off other units.

 

Threaten increases the aggro generated by damage, but if Alistair isn't doing much damage at all it is questionable.  You can add a tactic Self: Any --- Activate Threaten near the top if your Alistair isn't running out of stamina for Taunts and the occasional Bash.

 

There are some decent resources for tactics floating around.  Hate to say "do a search," as my brief one didn't turn up one I was remembering.  I will look later, but maybe you will find it before me.

 

As far as points go, you will need some more Str to allow Alistair to wear heavier armor.  Needs to get to 39 eventually.  The sooner the better really because that will allow his armor rating to go way up.  Since you will not be taking Templar on the Warden, that means you can give Knight Commander Plate to Alistair if you can get the ~23 gold together.

 

Since he is WnS, you need to get at least 26 Dex, but the more the merrier so he can avoid damage. Keep in mind that the 1 handed swords, axes, and maces only gain damage via Strength.  So it might be worthwhile to give him a dagger as dainbramage said.  Half the time I don't even worry about it since he is the only WnS warrior and he gets whatever the best 1H weapon I have looted (since the best daggers go to Leliana or me most of the time in my runs).

 

I have also made him a dual dagger "tank" with sky-high dex which was pretty amusing.  His armor rating was a bit wimpy on that run though, so I wouldn't recommend it the first few times through the game.

 

edit:  If you are using a Healer (which is what Wynne basically starts as), it is helpful if they have a health pot listed for themselves near the top of their tactics, then the next couple devoted to tank healing.

 

So for Wynne:

 

Self: Health < 25 --- Use Health Poultice Least Powerful

Allistair: Health < 50 --- Heal

Allistair: Health < 75 --- Regeneration

Ally:  Health < 25 --- Heal

 

Something like that.  Might not want to have her heal set at the same level as Alistair's health pot level, but I don't remember the gradations in base game tactics.  In Advanced Tactics you can pick by 10's.  Depending on how many lyrium pots you have, that might need to go in there somewhere.  Also debatable whether Group Heal should go on there.

[Qis]

Health <50% - use lesser health poultice, if you don't have it but have higher tier poultice, the character use that instead. This is not using mod as far as i am aware.

 

Health <25% is not a good idea because in my experience there's not enough time before KO

 

I usually make party member (name) attacked by melee - use taunt, so Alistair don't need to move away from the crowd but the enemies will go to him

[capn233]

^ I use the lower threshold for the non-tank characters so they don't drink as many pots.  Most of the time they shouldn't be getting hit enough that they will get killed.  But OP can tweak it to his liking.

 

Also as far as the Shield Bash tactic goes, what I wrote originally doesn't work correctly since the enemy should be designated (since Shield Bash requires an enemy target).  I have corrected it.  The problem with the updated version is the tank may run off against ranged target.  May or may not want to use that.

 

Theoretically the "Morrigan: Being attacked in melee" could work as intended if Alistair has already selected the enemy attacking her as his target, but it breaks down if he hasn't.

[capn233]

I have tried searching for a grand, all inclusive tactics thread.  I don't remember what I depended on back in the day to learn about them.  But here are a couple posts that aren't bad with respect to Wynne and Morrigan:
 
Wynne:
 

It will save you a lot of mana and spell down time if you don't make Wynne too busy over cast on herself.

her tactics are best simplified:

Self: health < 50% Regen
Ally: health <75% heal
Ally: health <50% Group heal
Enemy: magic attack - Glyph of paralysis Or Stonefist if you don't have glyph yet
Tank: health <90% regen
Tank: being attacked by melee - Glyph of warding Or Heroic Defense if you went for Haste first.
dw char: health >90% - Heroic offense (will constantly cast outside of combat for free and in combat only if healing isn't required. Improves early game damage output considerably)


Personally I think Leliana does more damage as a dw rogue while you boost her lockpick and pp skills only giving her DW mastery tree points when you can afford them.  Stats boost dex 2 : 1 cun per level.  But then again I bring Morrigan over Alistar for my tower clear, its just faster.

 

Whether or not Wynne should use magic or pots to heal herself really depends on your relative supply of health pots to lyrium pots, IMO.

 

Morrigan:
 

This is a setup I would use with 10 slots available

1 health < 50% hp lp( health poultice least powerful)
2 self surr by 2 mind blast
3 self attkd melee horror
(4 self attkd melee behaviour passive)
4 tgt sr to mr winter's grasp
5 tgt health <50% vul hex
6 tgt has vul hex or aff hex drain life
7 nmy using melee disorient
8 tgt health <30% lightning
9 nmy nv attack
10 nmy tgt of contol attack

...snip...

There isn't exactly a one-size-fits-all tactic setup, although Alistair and Wynne are probably the closest to having one since most people are running them in relatively similar manners.  I would drop Disorient from that list though, -5 attack and defense penalty isn't worth the mana to me.

 

I usually have pretty basic things on Morrigan's tactics since she typically gets various AOE control or damage powers and I don't want her dealing friendly fire.

 

Sleep is something that lends itself to automation though, given that it doesn't have FF. 

 

Enemy: Clustered with 3 (or whatever number) Allies --- Sleep

Enemy: Sleeping --- Horror

[RiverHillBlue1]

So Far I've brought the backpacks at Ostagar, the Circle, and from Bodahn, and if iirc I got one at Lothering also. But I went to the circle first for the stat boost, and did Redcliff up to the point of saving Connor, and now planning on getting Shale before I got to Ozarmar. But I'm planning on getting Shale and doing some side quest cause I wanna get her approval up cause I wanna side with Branka. ANYWAY do you think its still possible for me to buy those equipment? I currently have 24 gold.

 

 

If you leverage coercion, pickpocketing, selling high end potions (not crafting, just ones you pick up) and gear you don't need, money isn't a thing really.  True, you can't have everything for your entire party, but your Warden can easily be iced out at a mid level alongside having some good items for your teammates.  I don't recall reading how many playthrough's you've done, but speaking for myself it took several to really take advantage of all the ways to make money (without exploits/glitches).  

 

When I mentioned opening up Orzammar early, the smuggler Rogek can turn 40 sovereigns into about 85 if you've done the mage tower.  All it takes is 40g up front and a couple of fast travels.  There's a lot of hidden money through conversations and decisions.  I'm not sure how much I've pickpocketed over the course of my current play through, butI know it's enough to buy one of those high end items alone.

[Qis]

To make more money is to make crimes, as real life do

 

If you have Leliana or Zevran, make them master thieves, they can pickpocket while fighting. You can be master theif also but it's a bit annoying pickpocket in combat yourself

 

Build them for melee, because if they are archer they will run toward enemies to pickpocket

 

Set their tactic, enemy - any - pickpocket. Your inventory could be full without you even realize

[capn233]

Yeah stealing is not bad at all.  Definitely want to steal from Rogek to boost the profit on Precious Metals.

 

Stealing: Profitable Marks, Money Making Guide on the wiki

 

The amount of gold you can get in a run is pretty variable dependent on what loot drops, how much you want to pay to equip your team, when you get stealing or coercion, etc.  I rarely buy items for the squad, they are usually making due with whatever is looted, although some gear that cost efficient I might buy.  Also don't really need to keep the entire set of companions in good gear if you run the same few for most quests.

 

Dwarf noble has it best when it comes to gold.

[Mike3207]

My change to Morrigan being attacked by melee is have her shapeshift to Bear/Spider/Swarm. The only time I've had a character die after shifting is if they run out of mana.

 

Gold-I duplicate tomes and sell them for gold, but that goes against the op's rule against no exploits. I've done that for so long I don't know how much you actually get in a clean game if you don't use the item duplication trick.

 

If you have the Origins strategy guide, it's got some pretty good tactics in it for companions. I usually use the tactics mentioned for Wynne in it.

[RiverHillBlue1]

My change to Morrigan being attacked by melee is have her shapeshift to Bear/Spider/Swarm. The only time I've had a character die after shifting is if they run out of mana.

 

Gold-I duplicate tomes and sell them for gold, but that goes against the op's rule against no exploits. I've done that for so long I don't know how much you actually get in a clean game if you don't use the item duplication trick.

 

If you have the Origins strategy guide, it's got some pretty good tactics in it for companions. I usually use the tactics mentioned for Wynne in it.

 

 

 

I wish I had the strategy guide, if nothing else for a collector's item.  Setting up tactics for Wynne is one of my favorite things.  I've found the following viable:

 

Self Health < 25%: Vessel of the Spirit

Ally Health < 25%: Force Field

Self: Attacked by Melee: Glyph of Paralysis (have also used Petrify with success)

Self: Attacked by Range: Glyph of Warding

Ally Health < 50%: Group Heal

Self Health < 75%: Heal

Ally Health < 75%: Heal

Ally Health < 90%: Regeneration

Self Mana < 50%: Mass Rejuvenation

Self Any: Activate Rock Armor

 

I change up the tactics slightly if there's a Blood Mage or Reaver in the party, but this template works otherwise.  Sometimes I change a couple things around.  A lot of the early stuff gets routinely passed over and she goes straight to spamming Regen and Heal, but that's the ideal scenario anyways.  Between my warriors controlling the engagements on the front line, Wynne wearing Wade's Superior Dragon Scale, and the Vessel of the Spirit oh **** button, she's my strongest companion  

[capn233]

^ I like to trigger Vessel based on low mana.  When she has Anerin's Token this ability is one of the most absurd things ever.

[dainbramage]

^ I like to trigger Vessel based on low mana.  When she has Anerin's Token this ability is one of the most absurd things ever.

 

In my tactics I have it as like low hp, low mana and surrounded by enemies. Then I end up casting it at the start of battle cause I want her to nuke ****.

[capn233]

In my tactics I have it as like low hp, low mana and surrounded by enemies. Then I end up casting it at the start of battle cause I want her to nuke ****.

 

I say, that doesn't sound very sporting old chap.  *victorian emoji*

 

"...and that's how Wynne beat the 5th Blight single handed."

[NRO TYN]

Thanks again everyone for your help, its much appreciated since I never played Origins on Nightmare.

[RiverHillBlue1]

^ no problem. I suggest giving nightmare a try. It's not bad when all of your options are realized. I love it because my decisions and strategies hold that much more weight.