53 réponses à ce sujet

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I found it interesting that what Blackwall did is identical to what Sten did, even down to seeking atonement by fighting darkspawn (sort of). The only difference is that Blackwall lied about his crimes and tried to run from them, whereas Sten was truthful and upfront about his.

Back in the day when I played DAO and Sten explained what happened to the people. He accepted his crime.. that proves he was guilty and he followed their law. It was refreshing to see an individual like that. I accepted his response and we went on our merry way. Lol.

You're right though, it's almost the same situation. One ran from his fate while the other accepted it. Luckily, Sten got a get of jail free card from our Warden. Thom, on the other hand, would of been hung (no doubt) unless something miraculously stopped it.

[Rogue Unit]

I had a hunch that Blackwall was hiding something. I was didn't see that Warden angle coming but I knew he was hiding something. And Solas is an easy one. There are two things certain in every Dragon Age.

 

1) You will be given the opportunity to slaughter an entire dalish clan

2)Don't trust the apostate.

 

Plus, a few people call Solas out. I forgot who it was but they question how Solas knew that mark would close the rifts. And Cassandra questions how he arrived on the scene so fast. To his credit, Solas is a quick liar.

[rapscallioness]

I strongly suspected BlackWall was not a Warden. Definitely by the time of the Archdemon killing question. His answers before that were plausible, yet the very idea that they were even on the dialogue wheel to be asked made a brow rise.

 

I was like, "The Dialogue Wheel makes a good point. Why are you not disappeared/Hearing the Calling?"

[AlanC9]

I was thinking deserter, myself -- I got that he was hiding something but I thought it was cowardice.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I like the twist and turns (Like Thom, Solas, Iron Bull as loyal part of the Qun).

Don't get me wrong though, I enjoy the face-value characters very much!

They don't have to replicate those scenarios but if Bioware can throw us a couple curve balls with companions in future installments, I am all for it.

I know this is off topic but I am hoping they have two mutually exclusive characters that organically happen to join/live depending on a pivotal choice during DA4. Something like you can recruit one or the other companion (because the story path).. or you can recruit both but a choice down the road lands a death for one (and vice versa). Just to add the feels!

Then again, I am fine if not anyway.

[nightscrawl]

Exactly. It could be one of the few times pre-Revelations where he gives an honest answer. Oh, the irony! We know from the letter that the real Blackwall was stuck at the Orlesian border, unable to get in to Ferelden thanks to Loghain. But Rainier? He very well could have been in Ferelden during the Blight. Why he would be I have no idea, since wasn't he in the Orlesian army at that time? Or maybe he hadn't joined up yet?

I will admit that I tend not to be naturally suspicious of characters unless I'm knocked over the head with it.

[Reznore57]

I knew something was off with Blackwall.

I mean who go have drink with friends and go on a rant about a dead dog....talk about awkward.

He tended to be pretty cool in companions banter but with the Inqui , he's always a bit on the edge.

Even in Trespasser .

 

Anyway I had doubt about the wardens stuff , because he said he was in Ferelden during the Blight , I thought "weird".But I took him to Adamant and let him make a speech to motivate fellow wardens.

If I remember correctly he presented himself as Blackwall to his peers , and no one batted an eye.

So I just thought he was the real deal , just kind of a morose and awkward guy at times.

I assumed he had a dark past but that's not unusual for wardens , and he wasn't denying it either anyway.

 

Let's just say the Rainier stuff pissed me off the first time.

I didn't really want to deal with him to be honest.So I decided he would be a true warden , so whatever he did would be forgotten for real .

 

Nowadays I just forgive him.I really like him as a tank and taking him on the road.But I don't actually enjoy the conversation with him all that much.It's like he's putting pressure on the Inky to be a goddam knight in shiny armor and a paragon of virtue because he wants that for himself.

He's much more genuine and cool with Sera or Bull or whoever.

[PapaCharlie9]

First play through, I hated that beardy sulker on first sight. But this being my first PT, I talked to everyone about everything, including the heart option. I should be able to serial romance everyone in a single PT, right? What did I know? Even though I found his clumsy crush on my femme Trevelyan gross and off-putting, to say the least, I let it get as far as the pass in the Skyhold master bedroom before I'd had enough. Then he started stalking Josie? Gaah! What a creep.

Long story short, I was predisposed to believe the worst in Blackwall. Shady AF is right. So my reaction to Revelations was more, "Oh, so that's what that was all about?" than anything else. I hadn't guessed -- hadn't cared enough to pay any attention.

Nowadays I don't dislike Blackwall so much. The PC mod that removes his beard helps reduce the creep factor. Plus if you can get Revelations over with quickly, he's not so bad as Thom make-things-right Ranier. Still, his banter leaves much to be desired, particularly with Vivienne in the party. Like fingernails on chalkboard, those two.

(Don't take this the wrong way, Karook. I know what you mean about getting bushwhacked by the feels. Sera's Pride Cookies is the one that caught me by surprise. And plenty of folks hate Sera with a passion, so ...)

[Knight of Dane]

 

Not sure if you played DAO, Karook, but it was clear something was up with Blackwall when he said he was fighting darkspawn in Ferelden during the Blight. All but two of the Ferelden Wardens were massacred early in DAO, so it was impossible for Blackwall to be present.

 

 I've never understtod this, I mean I doubted him too, but how would you *know*?

 

We know from Riordan and Kristoff that wardens go on solo missions, there is no reason why Blackwall couldn't have been on one without the recruits at the time knowing.

[GoldenGail3]

Blackwall & My Need To Slap Him For Being So Gosh Darn Boring

[Melbella]

I will admit that I tend not to be naturally suspicious of characters unless I'm knocked over the head with it.

Part of the problem is the Inquisitor/Herald is not allowed to be suspicious, even if the player can be. This was definitely a situation where stat-based dialogue checks would be really useful. For example, if you have a Cunning score over 30 maybe you notice the odd responses you get from Blackwall and can ask a more pertinent question. Or maybe trigger a WT op to "investigate Blackwall" with Leliana. We had this in DAO (all the special options you get for having Cunning 30+ for example) so it's not like it's unheard of in Dragon Age.

Not a Bioware game but....NWN2/MotB used such stat checks a lot, especially during the trial and in conversations with Gann. Unforunately, the options would sometimes appear even if you didn't have enough points to pass the check.  An early version of being trolled by the dialogue wheel.

 

Of course, these kinds of checks would only be fair in a game where the player can increase their stats as they wish rather than having to rely on abilities and/or gear to do it instead. I really hope they go back to having them be separate in the next game.

[AlanC9]

Nowadays I don't dislike Blackwall so much. The PC mod that removes his beard helps reduce the creep factor.

Anyone got a screenshot handy? I'm finding it difficult to visualize Beardy McWarden without the beard.

[Melbella]

Anyone got a screenshot handy? I'm finding it difficult to visualize Beardy McWarden without the beard.

Just Google "Blackwell without beard" and it will pop up a bunch of pics.

[AlanC9]

Part of the problem is the Inquisitor/Herald is not allowed to be suspicious, even if the player can be. This was definitely a situation where stat-based dialogue checks would be really useful. For example, if you have a Cunning score over 30 maybe you notice the odd responses you get from Blackwall and can ask a more pertinent question.

This works both ways. As someone else mentioned upthread, getting a dialogue option can make you suspicious even if you weren't until you saw it.

Of course, these kinds of checks would only be fair in a game where the player can increase their stats as they wish rather than having to rely on abilities and/or gear to do it instead.

They also work in games where we go really old-school and your stats don't change, ever. Either you've got 16 WIS or you don't.

[AlanC9]

Just Google "Blackwell without beard" and it will pop up a bunch of pics.

Thanks. It didn't occur to me that this would be enough of a thing to be googleable.

[Melbella]

This works both ways. As someone else mentioned upthread, getting a dialogue option can make you suspicious even if you weren't until you saw it.

They also work in games where we go really old-school and your stats don't change, ever. Either you've got 16 WIS or you don't.

The alternative though, is being forced to play a character that is dumb as a doornail and never notices anything out of the ordinary unless they are scripted to.   If some of these things are stat based, then you have a choice of working to meet that stat/check or working to avoid it. Plus, just because the option is there, doesn't mean you have to pick it.

[midnight tea]

Part of the problem is the Inquisitor/Herald is not allowed to be suspicious, even if the player can be. This was definitely a situation where stat-based dialogue checks would be really useful. For example, if you have a Cunning score over 30 maybe you notice the odd responses you get from Blackwall and can ask a more pertinent question. Or maybe trigger a WT op to "investigate Blackwall" with Leliana. We had this in DAO (all the special options you get for having Cunning 30+ for example) so it's not like it's unheard of in Dragon Age.

 

But it does make sense for Inquisitor not being knowledgeable about the Wardens - because nobody aside from Wardens knows much about them anyhow, and even the Warden knowledge about themselves can be spotty at times. After all HoF gets to learn some (crucial) Warden secrets only at the very end of DAO, while Stroud/Alistair/Loghain are merely aware of existence of Corypheus only thanks to their relative seniority in the order. 

 

And that's without even mentioning the fact that in past years there were not that many Wardens to pry secrets from, since those in the South have been either decimated by events in Ferelden or began disappearing some time before the Conclave...

[Melbella]

But it does make sense for Inquisitor not being knowledgeable about the Wardens -

This is why we have advisors, yes? Namely, Leliana, who spent a good deal of time with Wardens and knows pretty much everything the HoF knows up to the end of DAO. She would especially know that no Wardens but the HoF and Alistair (and later Riordan) were in Ferelden during the Blight and that Orlesian Wardens, like Blackwall, were being deliberately kept out. But you can't ask her anything about that. How is this a smart option?

[midnight tea]

This is why we have advisors, yes? Namely, Leliana, who spent a good deal of time with Wardens and knows pretty much everything the HoF knows up to the end of DAO. She would especially know that no Wardens but the HoF and Alistair (and later Riordan) were in Ferelden during the Blight and that Orlesian Wardens, like Blackwall, were being deliberately kept out. But you can't ask her anything about that. How is this a smart option?

 

a.) it is within realm of possibility that there could be other Wardens aside from HoF, Alistair and Riordan in Ferelden at that time. After all we only find out about Riordan long past the 1st half of the game and there's no Internet or registry to track people nearly everywhere like in modern times.

 

b.) it is beside the point because Leliana knows that Blackwall isn't a real Warden. Her comment about Blackwall "not being what she expected" and papers on Blackwall Cullen delivers to Inquisitor later proves that. She never tells anything, because she apparently judges him as a good man and an asset to what was at that time a fledgling organization with little manpower, who could use Blackwall for PR reasons (since Wardens are respected after stopping 5th Blight), same way Herald if Andraste was/is, especially at the beginning. So even if Inquisitor would ask, she'd probably not tell much, and since - like you said - she knows a thing or two about Wardens, the rest could have safely assumed Blackwall is the real deal. 

Or, you know, she might actually not know THAT much about them. Even Cullen at one point says that even Leliana has something of a blind spot when it comes to Wardens.

[Melbella]

a.) it is within realm of possibility that there could be other Wardens aside from HoF, Alistair and Riordan in Ferelden at that time. After all we only find out about Riordan long past the 1st half of the game and there's no Internet or registry to track people nearly everywhere like in modern times.
 
b.) it is beside the point because Leliana knows that Blackwall isn't a real Warden. Her comment about Blackwall "not being what she expected" and papers on Blackwall Cullen delivers to Inquisitor later proves that. She never tells anything, because she apparently judges him as a good man and an asset to what was at that time a fledgling organization with little manpower, who could use Blackwall for PR reasons (since Wardens are respected after stopping 5th Blight), same way Herald if Andraste was/is, especially at the beginning. So even if Inquisitor would ask, she'd probably not tell much, and since - like you said - she knows a thing or two about Wardens, the rest could have safely assumed Blackwall is the real deal. 
Or, you know, she might actually not know THAT much about them. Even Cullen at one point says that even Leliana has something of a blind spot when it comes to Wardens.

 

a. ) It is possible but very unlikely considering Loghain has assassins after any of them. Also, Riordan says he came into Ferelden alone.

b.) What Leliana knows or doesn't know isn't the issue. It's that the Inquisitor cannot ask her anything one way or the other. So, even if the player puts 2 and 2 together, the Inquisitor is not allowed to.

[VivainaDX]

I wasn't blindsided, but I cheated and checked out the game play videos on Youtube before I even played DAO. It pissed me off that the jerk was not only a party member, but also a romanceable character. The guy is creepy and icky and a complete waste of time. I would have rather had the option to recruit/romance Knight Captain Rylen from Griffons Keep, than have to listen to Blackwalls sad sack story. I recruit him now, but I don't do anything with him, listening to his lectures in gameplay makes me wanna slap him. 

[Seraphim24]

Blackwall was such a dirtbag. 

[Karook]

Holy Sex Badgers (dont give them coffee), the thread blew up! LOL Fun reads. Ok, back to beer and West Wing but I did drop my 5th dragon tonight. 

 

Cheers! 

[Phoe77]

I expected that he was just hung up over some really tough choice he had to make in the past.  If I were to have guessed, I would have imagined that he was trying to come to terms with a decision on par with what the mayor in Crestwood made.  I certainly didn't expect that he wasn't actually a warden.  I just accepted that he might have been in Ferelden without anyone knowing about it or that he managed to slip in once crap started hitting the fan.  As for Riordan coming alone, that doesn't mean that someone else couldn't have had a similar idea.  In general, he's usually pretty good about responding to warden questions vaguely enough that his answers are technically correct.  It didn't strike me as terribly odd that he wasn't more specific since wardens are typically pretty secretive as a rule.

 

I keep on going back and forth about how much Leliana knows about Blackwall pre-Revelation.  I usually take her "not what I expected" comment to be in regards to his lack of knowledge regarding the other wardens' suspicious behavior, but I suppose it could be that she knows that he's not really Blackwall then and there.  I just assumed that she took him at his word since he was allegedly a warden and that his sudden and unexplained disappearance inspired her to do some digging.  The other explanation is equally plausible though.

[Karook]

During my romp in Thedas last night, FINALLY Cass chewed on Blackwall for his lying. They had several well played back and forths. Varric has yet to chime in, though. So I guess the devs were mimicking the silent treatment immediately after, slowly entering back into banter. I like the dialog choices. Really, all I have left with my first play through is farming fade touched silverite, making some helms and running through the last three ops. Ive killed five dragons and Im cool with that, even feels very RP to not mess with the other five although I've bumped into the fact (this is my first play through) I will face one or two more in the final push. I find Tecate with salt and lime to be a good drink for leveling