22 respuestas en este tema

[XxX_DogeID_XxX]

I can safely say i have like 80% paragon, But i cannot choose the paragon or renegade option! Please! dont tell me its because I didnt choose the paragon option in jacks mission, I mean I did the paragon inturrepet and prevented her from killing aresh, But please dont tell me its because of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheN7Penguin]

Typically, these arguments require a massive amount of paragon or renegade scores, so you may not have enough. I save the loyalty missions which cause arguments until the end.

[Vanilka]

Have you invested any points in your class' mastery? Passive abilities like Combat Mastery for the Soldier, Tech Mastery for the Engineer, Biotic Mastery for the Adept, Defender for the Sentinel, Operative for the Infiltrator, and Assault Mastery for the Vanguard increase your Paragon/Renegade points.

 

I don't think that the interrupts and such are linked in any way, so you should be safe no matter how you handled Jack's mission.

 

It really could be that you sadly don't have enough points. If you have trouble settling that argument, you can tell Miranda off and then talk some sense into her later when you have more Paragon/Renegade. (I'm not sure you can do that with Jack.)

[TheN7Penguin]

I don't think you can with Jack. Same thing during the Tali/Legion conflict though. You can tell Legion to back down and then convince him afterwards.

[cap and gown]

Your paragon and renegade meters are basically irrelevant in telling you whether you can pass persuade checks or not. Here is what I wrote in another thread about the persuade system in ME2:

 

 

For ME2 the persuade system is rather opaque. You have paragon and renegade meters, but they actually are misleading and you should not pay attention to them. To pass persuade checks in ME2 each check requires that you are either x% paragon or y% renegade. Sometimes the percentage required is very high, sometimes it is not so high. It will also depend on whether it is an intimidate or charm option. For some persuade checks the charm option (blue) requires a low percentage while the intimidate (red) option requires a high percentage. For others, the charm option may require a high percentage, while the intimidate option may require a low percentage.

 

How are these percentages calculated? Every time you enter some new area/run some mission, there will be a total number of paragon points that can be earned (p), and a total number of renegade points that can be earned ( r). Let's say you land on Omega, the first hub world you will probably go to. Let's say there are a total of 200 paragon points that could be earned here and 150 renegade points that could be earned here based on the dialogue choices you make. Now let's say you earn 100 paragon points and 50 renegade points. (And you missed out on a number of points because you didn't talk to certain people or picked a neutral option.) Your paragon percentage is now 50%, and your renegade percentage is 33%. Now let's say you are presented with a dialogue where you can persuade someone. The charm option requires that you be 40% paragon and intimidate option requires that you be 35% renegade. You will be able to use the charm option (blue) because your paragon percentage is 50% which is greater than the 40% required, but you will not be able to use the intimidate option (red) because your renegade percentage is 33% which is less than the 35% required.

 

As you travel to more and more places and run more and more missions, the total number of paragon and renegade points you could potentially earn keeps growing and growing, but the likelihood of you earning all the points available is rather low, meaning as the game progresses it becomes increasingly harder to pass persuade checks.

 

For this reason, it is recommended that you 1) try to get to difficult persuade checks early in a game, and 2) import as many paragon and renegade points from ME1 as possible. You can import up to 190 paragon points and 190 renegade points from ME1. Using the above example, a character that imported 190 renegade and 190 paragon points would start out - before even talking to anyone - at 95% paragon and 126% renegade, meaning they could pass any persuade check imaginable. For an experienced player who understands how the system works it is entirely possible to play a character that is 50% paragon and 50% renegade and pass all the persuade checks in ME2.

[RedCaesar97]

It really could be that you sadly don't have enough points. If you have trouble settling that argument, you can tell Miranda off and then talk some sense into her later when you have more Paragon/Renegade. (I'm not sure you can do that with Jack.)

 

I will second this suggestion. Cap and gown explains the paragon/renegade system pretty well.

 

Siding with Jack in the original argument is the safest bet, then talking to Miranda immediately and choosing the Charm option there. I think convincing Miranda takes less Paragon percentage than trying to convince both Jack and Miranda to stand down.

[Monica21]

I can safely say i have like 80% paragon, But i cannot choose the paragon or renegade option! Please! dont tell me its because I didnt choose the paragon option in jacks mission, I mean I did the paragon inturrepet and prevented her from killing aresh, But please dont tell me its because of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is for the reasons cap and gown posted that I get Miranda and Jack's mission out of the way as soon as they're available. If I want to use those options, of ocurse. It's harder to have those percentages if you're late in a playthrough and haven't been too strict about a particular path.

[cap and gown]

It is for the reasons cap and gown posted that I get Miranda and Jack's mission out of the way as soon as they're available. If I want to use those options, of ocurse. It's harder to have those percentages if you're late in a playthrough and haven't been too strict about a particular path.

 

It should be noted here that the renegade percentage needed to resolve this argument is rather low, while the paragon percentage needed is very high. This is why most players have problems resolving this dispute: they are playing mostly paragon but are missing opportunities to earn paragon points. As the game drags on, more and more missed opportunities lead to a lower and lower overall paragon percentage making this a difficult persuade check to pass.

[Natureguy85]

Yeah, on the one hand, the system actually forces you to build a paragon or renegade character to get the harder checks, but on the other hand, it's not really clear to the player.

Don't Tali and Legion have the same value requirements, but reversed paragon and renegade?

[Monica21]

It should be noted here that the renegade percentage needed to resolve this argument is rather low, while the paragon percentage needed is very high. This is why most players have problems resolving this dispute: they are playing mostly paragon but are missing opportunities to earn paragon points. As the game drags on, more and more missed opportunities lead to a lower and lower overall paragon percentage making this a difficult persuade check to pass.

Good to know, since I think I'm mostly Cerberus-happy and Renegade this playthrough. Though, that could mean just siding with Miranda. Hmm...

[cap and gown]

Don't Tali and Legion have the same value requirements, but reversed paragon and renegade?

 

Correct. It is very hard to pass the renegade check, but quite easy to pass the paragon check. And since this confrontation normally takes place even later in the game it makes passing that renegade check even harder unless you are hitting every opportunity possible to get more renegade points.

[niniendowarrior]

Correct. It is very hard to pass the renegade check, but quite easy to pass the paragon check. And since this confrontation normally takes place even later in the game it makes passing that renegade check even harder unless you are hitting every opportunity possible to get more renegade points.

 

This is good to know since I'm playing a renegade Shepard and I've already failed the renegade check for Morinth.

[cap and gown]

This is good to know since I'm playing a renegade Shepard and I've already failed the renegade check for Morinth.

 

Just to show you an example of how it is possible to pass persuade checks being a 50/50 character, here is my last time through with Morinth. As you can see, I met both the renegade and paragon persuade levels needed. This was made possible by: 1) choosing as my class evolution the option that boosts your paragon/renegade scores by 100%; 2) importing 190 paragon points and 190 renegade points from ME1; and 3) playing this mission fairly early on. Specifically, this mission was done 5 mission after Horizon and just before doing the Collector ship. To get this mission that early I left Grunt in his tank and picked up Samara as my first post-Horizon team mate. By leaving Grunt in the tank, Samara's loyalty mission was bumped up in the queue so that I could get it before the Collector ship.

[themikefest]

When facing both Miranda and Jack, I have both red and blue options available whether I play as a renegade or paragon.

 

What I do is choose all the paragon stuff as soon as I have control of Shepard at the beginning of the game. After Horizon, I complete Miranda's loyalty mission right away, Then immediately after that, I talk with Jack. Do her loyalty mission right away. I do the same when playing as a renegade. Every time I've done it this way, I been successful keeping them loyal. The one time I lost the loyalty of one of them is when I did Jack's loyalty mission later in the game.

[niniendowarrior]

Just to show you an example of how it is possible to pass persuade checks being a 50/50 character, here is my last time through with Morinth. As you can see, I met both the renegade and paragon persuade levels needed. This was made possible by: 1) choosing as my class evolution the option that boosts your paragon/renegade scores by 100%; 2) importing 190 paragon points and 190 renegade points from ME1; and 3) playing this mission fairly early on. Specifically, this mission was done 5 mission after Horizon and just before doing the Collector ship. To get this mission that early I left Grunt in his tank and picked up Samara as my first post-Horizon team mate. By leaving Grunt in the tank, Samara's loyalty mission was bumped up in the queue so that I could get it before the Collector ship.

 

I actually usually do Samara's loyalty fairly early in my ME2 playthroughs. This time, her loyalty quest was done several quests after the Collector Ship.  I've never had an issue with the paragon/renegade check then.  So, I'm surprised to see that I did fail the renegade check this time.  I'm actually now a bit more alarmed at the renegade check between Tali and Legion because of this.

 

I've read this % rule on the morality scale some time back, but I'm curious about this.  If the computation is based on how much your para/gade points have compared to how much can be achieved at a certain point, you could edit your save and put 999999 para/gade points and pass all the persuasion checks but I don't think that works or at least, I recall this not working correctly for others.  So, I've always understood that it's not based on the points you have but instead, it's based on how many para/gade choice options were shown and how many were chosen to be paragon or renegade.

 

Thoughts?

[ArcadiaGrey]

Your paragon and renegade meters are basically irrelevant in telling you whether you can pass persuade checks or not. Here is what I wrote in another thread about the persuade system in ME2:

 

 

For ME2 the persuade system is rather opaque. You have paragon and renegade meters, but they actually are misleading and you should not pay attention to them. To pass persuade checks in ME2 each check requires that you are either x% paragon or y% renegade. Sometimes the percentage required is very high, sometimes it is not so high. It will also depend on whether it is an intimidate or charm option. For some persuade checks the charm option (blue) requires a low percentage while the intimidate (red) option requires a high percentage. For others, the charm option may require a high percentage, while the intimidate option may require a low percentage.

 

How are these percentages calculated? Every time you enter some new area/run some mission, there will be a total number of paragon points that can be earned (p), and a total number of renegade points that can be earned ( r). Let's say you land on Omega, the first hub world you will probably go to. Let's say there are a total of 200 paragon points that could be earned here and 150 renegade points that could be earned here based on the dialogue choices you make. Now let's say you earn 100 paragon points and 50 renegade points. (And you missed out on a number of points because you didn't talk to certain people or picked a neutral option.) Your paragon percentage is now 50%, and your renegade percentage is 33%. Now let's say you are presented with a dialogue where you can persuade someone. The charm option requires that you be 40% paragon and intimidate option requires that you be 35% renegade. You will be able to use the charm option (blue) because your paragon percentage is 50% which is greater than the 40% required, but you will not be able to use the intimidate option (red) because your renegade percentage is 33% which is less than the 35% required.

 

As you travel to more and more places and run more and more missions, the total number of paragon and renegade points you could potentially earn keeps growing and growing, but the likelihood of you earning all the points available is rather low, meaning as the game progresses it becomes increasingly harder to pass persuade checks.

 

For this reason, it is recommended that you 1) try to get to difficult persuade checks early in a game, and 2) import as many paragon and renegade points from ME1 as possible. You can import up to 190 paragon points and 190 renegade points from ME1. Using the above example, a character that imported 190 renegade and 190 paragon points would start out - before even talking to anyone - at 95% paragon and 126% renegade, meaning they could pass any persuade check imaginable. For an experienced player who understands how the system works it is entirely possible to play a character that is 50% paragon and 50% renegade and pass all the persuade checks in ME2.

 

I read that post and it helped me with my recent playthrough so a big thank you for that info!  

I feel like I finally have my head around the weird systems that are going on in ME2 now.  Your post, along with the folks who recommended getting the skill upgrade that gives you 100% extra reputation points, helped me achieve every paragon option I wanted in my latest run. 

 

The fact that it's so complex tho is a big headache for those new to the game, it baffled me that I couldn't renegade Tali's trial the first time I played. 

[aoibhealfae]

I use Gibbed and rigged my morality points to play the game however I want......

[congokong]

I think you can get back the loyalty of all four characters (Tali, Legion, Jack, Miranda) after the conflict.

 

[iM3GTR]

If anyone doesn't know this, you can actually resolve Tali/Legion dispute without para/ren by siding with Tali and then talking immediately to Legion afterward.

[niniendowarrior]

If anyone doesn't know this, you can actually resolve Tali/Legion dispute without para/ren by siding with Tali and then talking immediately to Legion afterward.

 

I didn't know this.  Thanks!

[Natureguy85]

I've played ME2 several times but this one video shows how poorly I did at differentiating them. I knew the outcomes existed but I was unaware of several. I love how Tali swings around and gets right in Shepard's face for the paragon loyalty restoration.

 

 

If anyone doesn't know this, you can actually resolve Tali/Legion dispute without para/ren by siding with Tali and then talking immediately to Legion afterward.

 

Yes, it's in that video. However, it's important that you included the word immediately. I think you have to do it right away. That said, if I recall correctly, choosing against an LI will toast the romance even if you repair the loyalty.

[niniendowarrior]

Just for a tiny update. I did fail the renegade check between Tali and Legion.  I ended up siding with Tali and then did the renegade dialog with Legion alone to regain loyalty.  Minor annoyance.

[StarcloudSWG]

No, no it's not high enough.

 

The paragon./ renegade system subtly changed in Mass Effect 2. Now it's not the amount of paragon / renegade points you've earned, its the percentage of the total amount you *could* have earned on all the planets you've unlocked and visited.

 

80% of your paragon bar filled doesn't matter if you've only done 60% of the missions that are available to you. When you first visit any hub world (Ilium, Omega, Tuchanka), your Paragon/Renegade Maximum Score goes up by the total available in all the missions on that world, but your Paragon/Renegade Earned Score only goes up with the points available in the missions you've actually done.

 

And the percentage comparison between Earned Score and Max Score is what the game uses to decide whether Paragon/Renegade dialog options are available.