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[KirkyX]

I might be remembering it wrong, but weren't we presented with 3 different emotional responses in DA2 for Hawke to deal with the death of his/her mother? Anger, sorrow and stoicism?

Yeah, Dragon Age 2 actually allowed for a quite a bit of nuance when it came to how your Hawke reacted to Leandra's death, over the course of multiple conversations. That game's conversation system remains by far my favourite take on the 'dialogue wheel' concept--I really hope they pull some inspiration from it for ME: A.

[Hammerstorm]

Keep telling yourself that. We are HUMAN. We have human feelings, love, hate, sadness. Everyone that suffers loss, sure maybe they don't break, but they aren't the same. Everyone has a Breaking point. I'll give you a scenario, Mom and Dad are driving on the highway, some guy rams them off the road. How would you feel?

 

Hahaha, you are not the smartest person right? 

 

While I can't say with 100% that it wouldn't affect me, I have had a similar experience with my little brother getting hit by a car while driving a moped. And that didn't made me a thing. So, stop act as you know it all and get it in your head: EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT!

So, are we clear? 

 

P.s you keep saying that all humans react, then in same breath you say sociopaths don't. They are human too.

[Iakus]

Everyone has a Breaking point, even the great commander Shepard.

Not everyone has the same breaking point.  And not everyone breaks the same way.

 

ME3 forced every Shepard to have essentially the same emotional reaction to the child, and limited our responses to being either sad (paragon) or p*ssed off (renegade) 

 

And in an RPG, who is the GM to dictate to their player how their character should react?

[Shechinah]

That's another bit of dialogue that often is misunderstood or misquoted by fans. If I had a dollar for every time someone on this forum has said that Liara claimed the Asari don't have a biological sex, I'd be now living in a seaside mansion on my own private island. That's not what she says.

 

You're right that the use of feminine pronouns and words to describe themselves doesn't really jive with a mindset where concepts like gender identity are meaningless. I suppose you could fan w@nk the feminine pronouns and such as being a byproduct of inexact translation by the universal translators.

 

I'll have to look up the dialogue myself then. I'll provide a transcript when I do.

 

If they genuinely wanted to have the asari be a race to whom gender identity were more or less meaningless then quite frankly, I think it would have made more sense if the asari had their own gender pronouns, if the gender pronouns they used differed from asari to asari or if we saw examples where some asari expressed an indifference to pronouns. It's hard to buy that they consider applying gender to themselves meaningless when they've done just that themselves.  

 

Additionally, I do not think the inexact translation headcanon quite works for the most part since it is not only the asari's pronouns that are feminine. Like I said, the asari primarily use feminine titles and refer to their offspring specifically as daughters. It's hard to interpret it as a quirk of translation when the words somehow always winds up mistranslating specifically to feminine versions.
 

[Iakus]

I'll have to look up the dialogue myself then. I'll provide a transcript when I do.

 

If they genuinely wanted to have the asari be a race to whom gender identity were more or less meaningless then quite frankly, I think it would have made more sense if the asari had their own gender pronouns, if the gender pronouns they used differed from asari to asari or if we saw examples where some asari expressed an indifference to pronouns. It's hard to buy that they consider applying gender to themselves meaningless when they've done just that themselves.  

 

Additionally, I do not think the inexact translation headcanon quite works for the most part since it is not only the asari's pronouns that are feminine. Like I said, the asari primarily use feminine titles and refer to their offspring specifically as daughters. It's hard to interpret it as a quirk of translation when the words somehow always winds up mistranslating specifically to feminine versions.
 

Asari are a monogendered race.  That gender is female.  Therefore, feminine pronouns are appropriate fro them to use.   

[Han Shot First]

It is impossible in a fully voiced game for the writers to give the player character anything close to the range of responses available to a pen & paper RPG character. Word budgets and resource limits are going to guarantee that the range of emotional responses is not going to be greater than at most, two or three choices.

 

The alternative is going the silent protagonist route or writing the main character as a brick who has no emotional reaction to anything, ever...neither of which is appealing.

 

There are some potential reactions that the devs also should avoid ever providing. For example I've seen a couple people on this forum ask why their Shepard couldn't laugh at the kid's fate. Besides the fact that it would be completely uninteresting to have the main character behave like some emotionally stunted edgelord, it would have made zero sense for someone so mentally defective to ever be given the responsibility Shepard is saddled with. Shepard's military career would have wrapped up long before.

[Shechinah]

In regards to the other discussion I'm going to repost a post I made in The "Glory" of War thread;

While I can agree wih the overall sentiment of what you say, I am not in favor of similar scenes to the dream sequences because for one, I feel that those scenes are not there for the sake of humanizing Shepard but for the sake of symbolism and that is not an impression I want to come away with from a sequence that is suppose to be about PTSD and characterization.

The dream sequences were also mandatory and so took the choice of how Shepard experienced loss and dealt with it out of the players' hands which is unnecessary, in my opinion as the below quests has shown it can be expanded upon while the option to do so rest with the player.

In my opinion, we should not have had to play through the dreams but instead have the option of talking to our companions about dreams or similar indications of post-trauma stress; if we go with the dreams, it should be up to the player to decide what the dreams were about and entailed through the ensuing dialogue and the effect it has on them thereby providing the oppertunity to actually explore the emotional and psychological impact the dreams have and allow for optional relationship building.

If Shepard refuses to talk to the companion about it then that provides a neat option of roleplaying and character building as well: One Shepard might have dealt alone with their grief for so long that, that is what they always do.

Quests like "I Remember Me" from the first Mass Effect, I feel, are the better way of humanizing Shepard and allow the players options in how to humanize Shepard.

I made a post about this a long while ago and thankfully, I could find it;
 

I remember the Sole Survivor's personal quest in Mass Effect 1 where near the end of it this happens:

Corporal Toombs: "Just as long as he goes to trial. Maybe the screaming will stop now. I don't know"
Shepard (I do. It dosen't.): "All you can do is keep going. "

Although the actual line could have matched the paraphrasing a bit better, in my opinion, I still feel that this exchange and the Colonist' exchange with Talitha in the "I Remember Me" quest was so much, much better than the symbolic dreams in Mass Effect 3. These exchanges felt more human than those dreams did. The dreams felt... artificial in a way. I am not sure how to describe it. They lacked the emotional impact that these quests had to me.

I think "I Remember Me" might be my favorite quest in the entire Mass Effect series. Even the title gets to me.

 
Basically, options and dialogue.

Note: this is my opinionated opinion. My personal dislike of the dream sequences and similar scenes do not extend to the people who like them.

[Shechinah]

Asari are a monogendered race.  That gender is female.  Therefore, feminine pronouns are appropriate fro them to use.   

 

That was one of the things I noted back on the last page. The post is #319, if you are curious and interested in reading it. 
 

[The Elder King]

but they react.

Reaction can be a lot of different things. 

[Hazegurl]

The point clearly went over your head.

 

Please explain then. Because it looks to me like your point is that I was putting down ME1 to uplift ME3 when my entire point is that none of the games are perfect. I just liked ME3 better because it was good up until the ending. In my opinion....is that what you needed written to know this was my own opinion?
 
 

You conceded that ME3 was very flawed before the end, but then pretended those flaws didn't exist. You make no sense.

 

I agreed with you about some of the flaws you picked out.  I then stated that the game was enjoyable until the end. That is my own experience with it. It sounds like you can't understand the concept of finding some flaws in something yet still enjoying it. But then again you did enjoy ME1.
 
 

You clearly didn't do any side missions in ME1. I explored Prothean ruins and got a Beacon-like glimpse of early, primitive humanity as seen by the Protheans. I found and ended a biotic cult that was bent on genocide. I encountered an old Nemesis with a Bond-villain plan for my death and turned the tables on him. Etc.

 

Yes, I clearly did. Some were interesting and some weren't like most side content in games. You're trying to claim ME1 was this vast exploration game, which it clearly was not.

 

You clearly weren't paying attention. Miranda tells you a crapload about Cerberus. She's an exposition character, there to explain Cerberus to the player. We know where Cerberus' funding comes from, what their goals are, how limited their resources are/are not, etc.

 

And did she tell you all about TIM's bank roll? Or all of his money making projects? What about his tax return and off shore accounts?  Any missing dialogue prompts I need to remember to get that info? We know only a fraction of what Miranda knows. Which isn't much considering the fact that each cell is kept in the dark about the others. She knew nothing about the Shepard clone and that was directly related to her own project. And judging by her surprise at some of TIM's choices in ME2. She doesn't know much about him at all. Miranda had a very rose colored glasses view on Cerberus, her word alone was hardly to be trusted.

 

"Cerberus is very well-funded. They have several suppliers and contributors within the Alliance military-industrial complex who trust the Illusive Man to make the right decisions. Cerberus also runs several front corporations meant to fund and support their operations. Spending trends indicate that Cerberus has a reliable income running up to several billion credits per year."http://www.ign.com/w...fect-3/Cerberus

 

That they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't have the balls to make a no-win outcome doesn't make ME3 better.

 

What makes it better is the fact that I liked it more than the others. If you want a no win outcome so badly just pick the refusal ending. The Reapers win.

 

How would being humanoid robots make them less threatening? The problems with executing their plans and motivations doesn't stem from aesthetics.

 

 

I think it would make them at least fightable. And it's just a suggestion.  Out of the years of hearing people b*tch about the endings, no one has seemed to come up with any plausible ideas on how to beat them.  Heck not even Drew knew how to beat them.  I'm sure you'll say we didn't have to beat them....but if not beating them is the best option, then why did people b*tch about the refusal ending too?

[Hazegurl]

They never forced Shepard to be a creampuff before that. If my Shepard was going to crack under pressure it would have been on Akuze. And why would a hardcore, sociopathic Renegade react that way at all?
 

No one else was cracking under the pressure. Liara, essentially a teenager who was a timid scientist a few years prior, was tougher and more reliable under stress than Shepard.
And I don't give credit for failed attempts at bad ideas.

Not sure how Renegade Shep is a sociopath but whatever.

 

Liara did crack under pressure, the girl couldn't shut her trap about her precious Thessia and quite honestly is the reason the mission failed.

[Laughing_Man]

...the girl couldn't shut her trap about her precious Thessia and quite honestly is the reason the mission failed.

 

How is that different than how the humans felt about earth, Garrus about Palevan, or Tali about Rannoch?

 

And how exactly did she cause the mission to fail?

[The Elder King]

Not sure how Renegade Shep is a sociopath but whatever.

 

Liara did crack under pressure, the girl couldn't shut her trap about her precious Thessia and quite honestly is the reason the mission failed.

I don't think that she's the reason the mission failed, but yeah, she cracked when things went wrong with Thessia.

[Laughing_Man]

I don't think that she's the reason the mission failed, but yeah, she cracked when things went wrong with Thessia.

 

Funny, the way I remember it Shepard cracked harder after that mission. Apparently Kai the cereal killer was worthy of sulking.

 

Ugh... ME3 really did jump the shark with how it hijacked character agency all the time and inserted broody lines in Shepard's mouth,

some more control over his reactions would have been appreciated.

[SKAR]

Hahaha, you are not the smartest person right?

While I can't say with 100% that it wouldn't affect me, I have had a similar experience with my little brother getting hit by a car while driving a moped. And that didn't made me a thing. So, stop act as you know it all and get it in your head: EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT!
So, are we clear?

P.s you keep saying that all humans react, then in same breath you say sociopaths don't. They are human too.

What a pitiful person. Sociopaths don't feel empathy nor sympathy. That why I ruled them out.

[Vilio1]

Blaming Liara for Kai Leng's gunship is really absurd. She did her job on Thessia, and she's ready to go on the very next mission.

[SKAR]

Reaction can be a lot of different things.

exactly

[The Elder King]

Funnily enough, Shepard cracked harder after that mission. Apparently Kai the cereal killer was worthy of sulking.

The point that Hazegurl was trying to say is that saying that Liara didn't crack as someone said isn't true. Regardless of Shepard.

 

exactly

So do you agree that all Shepards reacting in the same way to the even of ME3's prologue is wrong?

[SKAR]

The point that Hazegurl was trying to say is that saying that Liara didn't crack as someone said isn't true. Regardless of Shepard.

So do you agree that all Shepards reacting in the same way to the even of ME3's prologue is wrong?

Shepard felt many things, anger and sadness, guilt. Who wouldn't?

[Laughing_Man]

The point that Hazegurl was trying to say is that saying that Liara didn't crack as someone said isn't true. Regardless of Shepard.

 

I don't remember her "cracking". She had an emotional moment on the ship, and then she was back to work.

[Hazegurl]

How is that different than how the humans felt about earth, Garrus about Palevan, or Tali about Rannoch?

 

And how exactly did she cause the mission to fail?

She wasn't focused and chose not to be during the whole thing. Even the other squad mate tries to get her to remain focused and her response was  "I can't be that callous" It's no surprise that Kai Leng was able to just walk over to her and fling her across the room even though she has biotics and could have done more than just stand there with her gun out. 

 

Granted, Kai Leng won due to plot reasons, I know this, but it isn't far off to say/headcanon that the Thessia mission was doomed to failure because one teammate was clearly cracking the moment we landed.

 

 

Blaming Liara for Kai Leng's gunship is really absurd. She did her job on Thessia, and she's ready to go on the very next mission.

After she went up to Javik's room to fight with him (if you have Javik).  And how did the Thessia mission or the Kid dying stop Shepard from doing his thing? It didn't.

 

Shepard was never a blank slate PC.  You could chose his background and some of his dialogue but he was never meant to be a full self insert. Getting angry over the Thessia thing is like getting angry because Geralt hugged Ciri and got emotional because he thought she died. 

[Hammerstorm]

What a pitiful person. Sociopaths don't feel empathy nor sympathy. That why I ruled them out.

 

OH NO, your deep answer has made me realise how right you are.  I am still a better person than you apparently.

 

And how does that make them NOT human? On what grounds does you decide that?

[themikefest]

Blaming Liara for Kai Leng's gunship is really absurd. She did her job on Thessia, and she's ready to go on the very next mission.

What job did she do on Thessia?

 

The only thing she did was make a stupid comment about the Alliance providing air support the next time there's a war and standing still like the idiot she is while being thrown across the screen by Kai Leng

[Blooddrunk1004]

Main issue is that every Shepard started giving damn about the kid there was no way to avoid it.

 

Bioware tryed to make our character a bit less emotionless, however it completely backfired. Because by doing that Shepard was no longer our character like in first two games, we were "role-playing" and one of the stuff we were allowed is not to give a ****. In third game Shepard is an autoset character because we can't even pick most of the dialogue anymore in ME3.

 

Shepard broke because he saw a kid dying in front of him... that is just bullshit.

 

His team got killed on Akuze, he can kill all civilians who got possessed by Thorian, he is forced to leave Ashley or Kaiden behind, he can commit genocide on several occasions, he blows up Batarian system, he can get his entire team killed on Suicide Mission including people you romanced etc, all these situations in my opinion are far worse, yet he never once dreamed about anything related with those events.

[themikefest]

Liara did crack under pressure, the girl couldn't shut her trap about her precious Thessia and quite honestly is the reason the mission failed.

The moment she says she can't be that callous against her own people, I wanted to tell Steve to head back to the Normandy to get another squadmate and leave the asari on the ship.  She also doesn't do nothing when the ponytail runs towards her.

 

I wouldn't say she is the reason the mission failed. I would blame her pathetic species for that. Had they revealed the artifact earlier, the encounter with Kai Leng may never of happened or at least the result might be different