716 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

Please explain then. Because it looks to me like your point is that I was putting down ME1 to uplift ME3 when my entire point is that none of the games are perfect.

So yes, the point went over your head. You couldn't defend ME3 on it's merits, you could only put down ME1.
 

I just liked ME3 better because it was good up until the ending. In my opinion....is that what you needed written to know this was my own opinion?
I agreed with you about some of the flaws you picked out.  I then stated that the game was enjoyable until the end. That is my own experience with it. It sounds like you can't understand the concept of finding some flaws in something yet still enjoying it. But then again you did enjoy ME1.

How can it be good up until the end when it has numerous, major flaws before the end? You conceded that the story was weak at numerous points before the end so it can't all be good until the end. That doesn't make sense.
 

Yes, I clearly did. Some were interesting and some weren't like most side content in games. You're trying to claim ME1 was this vast exploration game, which it clearly was not.

I never made any such claim, so don't try to put words in my mouth just because you can't make an argument without resorting to hyperbole and nonsensical blanket statements.
 

And did she tell you all about TIM's bank roll? Or all of his money making projects? What about his tax return and off shore accounts?  Any missing dialogue prompts I need to remember to get that info? We know only a fraction of what Miranda knows. Which isn't much considering the fact that each cell is kept in the dark about the others. She knew nothing about the Shepard clone and that was directly related to her own project. And judging by her surprise at some of TIM's choices in ME2. She doesn't know much about him at all. Miranda had a very rose colored glasses view on Cerberus, her word alone was hardly to be trusted.
"Cerberus is very well-funded. They have several suppliers and contributors within the Alliance military-industrial complex who trust the Illusive Man to make the right decisions. Cerberus also runs several front corporations meant to fund and support their operations. Spending trends indicate that Cerberus has a reliable income running up to several billion credits per year."http://www.ign.com/w...fect-3/Cerberus

You just contradicted yourself and moved the goalpost. You said we knew nothing about Cerberus at all. That was flat out, objectively wrong.
We know that Shepard's resurrection and the SR-2 were "significant" investments for Cerberus that could have could have funded "an army" of soldiers.
 

What makes it better is the fact that I liked it more than the others. If you want a no win outcome so badly just pick the refusal ending. The Reapers win.

That ending was added later because they bungled the original ending so badly. And it's not "what I want," it's what the devs were too afraid to do so they pulled that "yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics..." ending out of their asses halfway into the final game's development.
 

I think it would make them at least fightable. And it's just a suggestion.  Out of the years of hearing people b*tch about the endings, no one has seemed to come up with any plausible ideas on how to beat them.  Heck not even Drew knew how to beat them.  I'm sure you'll say we didn't have to beat them....but if not beating them is the best option, then why did people b*tch about the refusal ending too?

We didn't have to beat them, but we also didn't have to find a convenient off-switch in the last game completely out of nowhere. That's just lazy, stupid writing. 

[SKAR]

OH NO, your deep answer has made me realise how right you are. I am still a better person than you apparently.

And how does that make them NOT human? On what grounds does you decide that?

Keep telling yourself that. This is getting out of hand. Let's get back to the topic. You're stubborn I'll give ya that. Looks like we won't be friends. Shame My anathema, wrong person who thinks they're right. I've taken a psychology class. Far from expert but I know a thing or two about the human mind. But I digress, let's end this.

[goishen]

PTSD is a funny thing.  You could have seen thousands of people die, but have one bad experience with a toaster and that's all that you can think about.  

 

Please stop making these broad assumptions like you know WTF you're talking about.

[SKAR]

PTSD is a funny thing. You could have seen thousands of people die, but have one bad experience with a toaster and that's all that you can think about.

Please stop making these broad assumptions like you know WTF you're talking about.

there's always a trigger.

[Vilio1]

She wasn't focused and chose not to be during the whole thing. Even the other squad mate tries to get her to remain focused and her response was  "I can't be that callous" It's no surprise that Kai Leng was able to just walk over to her and fling her across the room even though she has biotics and could have done more than just stand there with her gun out. 
 
Granted, Kai Leng won due to plot reasons, I know this, but it isn't far off to say/headcanon that the Thessia mission was doomed to failure because one teammate was clearly cracking the moment we landed.
 
 
After she went up to Javik's room to fight with him (if you have Javik).  And how did the Thessia mission or the Kid dying stop Shepard from doing his thing? It didn't.
 
Shepard was never a blank slate PC.  You could chose his background and some of his dialogue but he was never meant to be a full self insert. Getting angry over the Thessia thing is like getting angry because Geralt hugged Ciri and got emotional because he thought she died.

Liara never hesitates to shoot on Banshees or anything: that's a fact- which means she doesn't jeopardize the mission. It's also Liara who manages to save Shepard at the end of the mission. Is she disturbed by banshees? Yes. I think it's a combination of Liara reacting (appropriately, may I add) to seeing her own people being used as foot soldiers, and the fact that Banshees are genuinely more frightening than the other husks. But the fact that she does do her duty, despite being disturbed or afraid, is pretty much the textbook definition of battlefield courage.

[Hazegurl]

So yes, the point went over your head. You couldn't defend ME3 on it's merits, you could only put down ME1.

 

 The only thing I said about ME1 was that it was my least favorite. I only delved deeper into why that is when you made your comment. 

 

Was X good? Was Y good?

 

Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe you should have focused on what you loved about ME1 instead of simply putting down ME 3. Oh the irony.

How can it be good up until the end when it has numerous, major flaws before the end? You conceded that the story was weak at numerous points before the end so it can't all be good until the end. That doesn't make sense

 

Maybe you should answer that. You liked ME1 despite it's numerous flaws and plot holes. 
 

I never made any such claim, so don't try to put words in my mouth just because you can't make an argument without resorting to hyperbole and nonsensical blanket statements.

 

You're the one underlining exploration like it was an important aspect of ME1. 
 

You just contradicted yourself and moved the goalpost. You said we knew nothing about Cerberus at all. That was flat out, objectively wrong.
We know that Shepard's resurrection and the SR-2 were "significant" investments for Cerberus that could have could have funded "an army" of soldiers.

 

Sigh, we do not know everything about Cerberus. That quote does not tell us what you think it does. We only know he makes several billion credits a year and some of where it comes from.  We know nothing else about any of his investments, taxes, accounts, and so on.  You made the claim that TIM couldn't have afforded any of this in less than a year.  You seem to be ignoring the fact that it wasn't less than a year.  Just because he spent billions of credits on one project does not mean that was all his freaking money. And remember that Miranda  knows nothing about the other Cerberus cells.

 

That ending was added later because they bungled the original ending so badly. And it's not "what I want," it's what the devs were too afraid to do so they pulled that "yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics..." ending out of their asses halfway into the final game's development.

 

So what? You got it now, go play it...oh yeah it isn't what you want despite claiming that BW just didn't have the balls to give you a no win situation.

We didn't have to beat them, but we also didn't have to find a convenient off-switch in the last game completely out of nowhere. That's just lazy, stupid writing. 

 

 

And now you don't have to.

[Sifr]

Yeah, Dragon Age 2 actually allowed for a quite a bit of nuance when it came to how your Hawke reacted to Leandra's death, over the course of multiple conversations. That game's conversation system remains by far my favourite take on the 'dialogue wheel' concept--I really hope they pull some inspiration from it for ME: A.

 

Yeah, I liked how Aveline's conversation in the wake of Leandra's death even lampshaded that the sarcastic Hawke isn't fine, despite claiming to be. It really sells the notion that all the personal tragedy has left Hawke somewhat lonely underneath. Each personality type is merely how they choose to cope with it; one by seeing the best in people and situations, one by deflecting with humour and one by simply getting angry and punching people.

 

Having a similar concept in ME might be interesting, so our character as a baseline set of core traits, but we get to choose how to roleplay and express those traits throughout the game?

 

Like... would our refusal to give up something be that will lead us to attempt dangerous rescues, or something that will force our own men to drag us kicking and screaming from the battlefield because we won't admit defeat? Same basic trait at the centre, radically different application and outcome depending on how such a trait might be directed.

[AlanC9]

You're right that the use of feminine pronouns and words to describe themselves doesn't really jive with a mindset where concepts like gender identity are meaningless. I suppose you could fan w@nk the feminine pronouns and such as being a byproduct of inexact translation by the universal translators.

It's not like there's an alternative .... in English, anyway. I've been seeing attempts to come up with unisex personal pronouns since the 70s, but none of them have stuck.

[In Exile]

BG and NWN do deserve respect for being so very moddable though. Players were free to polish and add their own content.

That not exactly right. I'm not sure the IE was modable by design. And NWN was really a toolkit that happened to come with a game. But saying a game deserves respect for a feature is silly - does ME deserve respect for having VO? What matters is whether the feature is well designed.

[goishen]

Also, in b4 the lock on Monday when the team gets back in and just goes, "WTF?!  Wasn't anybody here this weekend?"

[In Exile]

That's another bit of dialogue that often is misunderstood or misquoted by fans. If I had a dollar for every time someone on this forum has said that Liara claimed the Asari don't have a biological sex, I'd be now living in a seaside mansion on my own private island. That's not what she says.

You're right that the use of feminine pronouns and words to describe themselves doesn't really jive with a mindset where concepts like gender identity are meaningless. I suppose you could fan w@nk the feminine pronouns and such as being a byproduct of inexact translation by the universal translators.

But they're obviously gendered - they clearly adhere to lots of gender tropes. They even have concepts of parenting roles and "mother" and "father". The reality is that this is just a case of Bioware not doing the research -like 90% of science in the series.

[Hammerstorm]

Keep telling yourself that. This is getting out of hand. Let's get back to the topic. You're stubborn I'll give ya that. Looks like we won't be friends. Shame My anathema, wrong person who thinks they're right. I've taken a psychology class. Far from expert but I know a thing or two about the human mind. But I digress, let's end this.

 

Don't need to. I'm far from a good guy. I just know my limits. And one of those is that I'm not very emotional attached to people. If you thinks that make me a lesser person, that's your problem.

 

A class is nice, but it should have shown that there is a lot we don't know about humans on the personal level.

[Hazegurl]

Liara never hesitates to shoot on Banshees or anything: that's a fact- which means she doesn't jeopardize the mission. It's also Liara who manages to save Shepard at the end of the mission. Is she disturbed by banshees? Yes. I think it's a combination of Liara reacting (appropriately, may I add) to seeing her own people being used as foot soldiers, and the fact that Banshees are genuinely more frightening than the other husks. But the fact that she does do her duty, despite being disturbed or afraid, is pretty much the textbook definition of battlefield courage.

 

And how does that translates to her not cracking during the entire Thessia mission? She whined during the whole freaking thing then stood there like a derp while Kai Leng used her to knock out Javik( or other squaddie). It doesn't mean she was in the corner shivering, she still helped out but if I had the option to send her back to the Normandy I would have taken it. Even Javik tries to get her to remain calm, which she chooses not to do.  I think there is a reason why Liara is always the one Kai Leng flings into the Squadmate (after the dialogue stresses that she isn't keeping it together).  Her head wasn't in the game during that mission. No pun intended.

[goishen]

The reason that Kai Leng always flings her is because she's always on the mission.  It's not because she broke down.  It's not because she's become an emotional ball of tears.  None of that, it's because she's always on the mission and BioWare didn't really wanna animate seven different scenes when they could animate one.

[SKAR]

Don't need to. I'm far from a good guy. I just know my limits. And one of those is that I'm not very emotional attached to people. If you thinks that make me a lesser person, that's your problem.

A class is nice, but it should have shown that there is a lot we don't know about humans on the personal level.

You don't know me. Also You should get a psychological evaluation. I know this guy who has a family with kids and he found out he was a sociopath. It's quite interesting.

[Han Shot First]

Kai Leng was also supposed to be better than your squadmates and on par with Shepard. It wasn't well executed, but he kills Thane and demolishes Miranda without Shepard's help.

[Hazegurl]

The moment she says she can't be that callous against her own people, I wanted to tell Steve to head back to the Normandy to get another squadmate and leave the asari on the ship.  She also doesn't do nothing when the ponytail runs towards her.

 

I wouldn't say she is the reason the mission failed. I would blame her pathetic species for that. Had they revealed the artifact earlier, the encounter with Kai Leng may never of happened or at least the result might be different

True, that was harsh even for me.  It is mostly the fault of her government moreso than her. I find it funny how the Asari thought they were so freaking smart to use Earth as a decoy only to lose their planet completely while humans were still fighting on Earth.

[Iakus]

It is impossible in a fully voiced game for the writers to give the player character anything close to the range of responses available to a pen & paper RPG character. Word budgets and resource limits are going to guarantee that the range of emotional responses is not going to be greater than at most, two or three choices.

 

The alternative is going the silent protagonist route or writing the main character as a brick who has no emotional reaction to anything, ever...neither of which is appealing.

 

There are some potential reactions that the devs also should avoid ever providing. For example I've seen a couple people on this forum ask why their Shepard couldn't laugh at the kid's fate. Besides the fact that it would be completely uninteresting to have the main character behave like some emotionally stunted edgelord, it would have made zero sense for someone so mentally defective to ever be given the responsibility Shepard is saddled with. Shepard's military career would have wrapped up long before.

This is all true.  cRPGs have limits.

 

But DAI at least, did show that the limit can be more than two with a ton of autodialogue.

[In Exile]

This is all true. cRPGs have limits.

But DAI at least, did show that the limit can be more than two with a ton of autodialogue.

And BG showed that dialogue can be awful and cheesy. And PST showed you can basically have an intro to philosophy paper wrapped up in RPG text boxes. VtM:B had hilariously colorful dialogue without VO. It's all about the talent of the writing team and development team, not the medium.

[Hazegurl]

The reason that Kai Leng always flings her is because she's always on the mission.  It's not because she broke down.  It's not because she's become an emotional ball of tears.  None of that, it's because she's always on the mission and BioWare didn't really wanna animate seven different scenes when they could animate one.

I know the dev (money) reason, I'm mostly talking about the story reasons. We had a lot of dialogue about Liara cracking, then she's shown derping out when Leng walks over to her.  It isn't hard to make the connection that she faltered a bit. I would've felt better if she was shown tossing a biotic anything at him before he flings her.  She just stands there spacing out. 

[Killroy]

PTSD is a funny thing.  You could have seen thousands of people die, but have one bad experience with a toaster and that's all that you can think about.  
 
Please stop making these broad assumptions like you know WTF you're talking about.

 
No one develops PTSD like that. It's not "I'm fine, all my friends are dead, I'm fine, I lost a limb to an IED, I'm fine, I can't walk any more, I'm fine, the toaster won't work, NOW I'M CRAZY!" That's completely stupid. PTSD happens in response to the traumatic event/s and can present and worsen in a wide variety of ways, but it doesn't lie completely dormant and then explode for no reason. People with PTSD don't seem fine up until the moment they fly off the handle. 
 
 

The only thing I said about ME1 was that it was my least favorite. I only delved deeper into why that is when you made your comment. 
Was X good? Was Y good?
Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe you should have focused on what you loved about ME1 instead of simply putting down ME 3. Oh the irony.

 
Hoo boy. You clearly don't grasp much of anything, do you? We weren't talking about ME1, we were talking about ME3. Bringing up ME1 and it's flaws was/is pointless and irrelevant.
 

Maybe you should answer that. You liked ME1 despite it's numerous flaws and plot holes.

I never said "ME1 was all good until the goofy Saren-bot at the end." If you can't argue the facts then why are you arguing? You're clearly out of your depth. You can't follow what's being discussed,  and you can't use simple logic to put two and two together.
 

You're the one underlining exploration like it was an important aspect of ME1.

I did no such thing, you liar. You said there was nothing to do during exploration in ME1 besides collecting trinkets. That was objectively wrong and I proved it. Nothing more.
 

Sigh, we do not know everything about Cerberus. That quote does not tell us what you think it does. We only know he makes several billion credits a year and some of where it comes from.  We know nothing else about any of his investments, taxes, accounts, and so on.  You made the claim that TIM couldn't have afforded any of this in less than a year.  You seem to be ignoring the fact that it wasn't less than a year.  Just because he spent billions of credits on one project does not mean that was all his freaking money. And remember that Miranda  knows nothing about the other Cerberus cells.

You said we knew nothing about Cerberus, and you clearly don't pay attention to or retain what's said in the games. Miranda isn't cut out of all things Cerberus except Project Lazarus. She was TIM's #2. She said there only a few things she's not privy to, and finding out that she didn't know about the clone surprised her. 
Over and over you're completely wrong. Hang it up.
 

So what? You got it now, go play it...oh yeah it isn't what you want despite claiming that BW just didn't have the balls to give you a no win situation.
And now you don't have to.

 

 

[Sifr]

And how does that translates to her not cracking during the entire Thessia mission? She whined during the whole freaking thing then stood there like a derp while Kai Leng used her to knock out Javik( or other squaddie). It doesn't mean she was in the corner shivering, she still helped out but if I had the option to send her back to the Normandy I would have taken it. Even Javik tries to get her to remain calm, which she chooses not to do.  I think there is a reason why Liara is always the one Kai Leng flings into the Squadmate (after the dialogue stresses that she isn't keeping it together).  Her head wasn't in the game during that mission. No pun intended.

 

I think we can forgive her for not having her head entirely in the game, her homeworld is being ravaged by the Reapers and she's dealing with learning that the entire core tenets of her faith are wrong, while Ancient Astronauts theorists are right.

 

The Goddess was actually a Prothean who helped uplift her species and the sole reason for their technological superiority was that the Asari were bogarting and datamining a Beacon, while forcing the rest of the galaxy to turn over or share the information found in others.

 

Imagine learning everything you know is wrong, your people are massive hypocrites and your planet is being invaded. It's not hard to imagine why you might slip up and not notice a friggin' space ninja until he throws you on your backside.

[Vilio1]

And how does that translates to her not cracking during the entire Thessia mission? She whined during the whole freaking thing then stood there like a derp while Kai Leng used her to knock out Javik( or other squaddie). It doesn't mean she was in the corner shivering, she still helped out but if I had the option to send her back to the Normandy I would have taken it. Even Javik tries to get her to remain calm, which she chooses not to do.  I think there is a reason why Liara is always the one Kai Leng flings into the Squadmate (after the dialogue stresses that she isn't keeping it together).  Her head wasn't in the game during that mission. No pun intended.

I don't remember her "cracking" during the mission. And seriously, every squadmate + Shep suffer from cutscene incompetence when Kai Leng appears (Thane fight!).

 

I think it's unfair to single out Liara here. Her post mission dialogue is certainly a different story, but then we have Ashley or Tali getting drunk, I wouldn't say that's better.
 

I find it funny how the Asari thought they were so freaking smart to use Earth as a decoy only to lose their planet completely while humans were still fighting on Earth.

Thessia fared a lot better than Earth.

[Shechinah]

The ME team did a good job recreating the sounds and colors of PSTD dreams, at least according to former military friends of mine that served overseas.

 
Huh, I did not know the dream sequences were accurate in terms of sound and color. If it was the result of them doing their research then they deserve credit for that.
 
It reminds me of a book about post-traumatic stress I once read wherein an abused girl recalls her nightmares and dreams. The ones of the latter she liked best were the ones wherein she was a powerful creature, I believe a raven-like bird, that hunted down evil creatures.  I think her psychologist saw it as her feeling powerful and feeling safety in said power as in life she had been helpless against her abuser(s). It was quite a good book with different stories and examples.

I still feel, however, that the dream sequences were less there for Shepard's sake or to put it differently, that I cannot recall that they really explored the post-traumatic stress that they decided to make a set part of Shepard's character. Worse, they did not include the player in how the player's character experienced and handled the stress and loss which is a problem since it can cause players to not care for this and it can create inconsistencies with the established characterization Shepard has. I think it would have been better to leave the dreams vague and leave the player with the option to have Shepard discuss them with someone and for the player to have options of what the dreams entail. The dialogue would explore the emotional and psychological impact of the PTSD. 

 

You know, I think developers legitimately forgot that Shepard can be implied to have post-traumatic stress including dreams during the Sole Survivor's personal mission.

[goishen]

 
No one develops PTSD like that. It's not "I'm fine, all my friends are dead, I'm fine, I lost a limb to an IED, I'm fine, I can't walk any more, I'm fine, the toaster won't work, NOW I'M CRAZY!" That's completely stupid. PTSD happens in response to the traumatic event/s and can present and worsen in a wide variety of ways, but it doesn't lie completely dormant and then explode for no reason. People with PTSD don't seem fine up until the moment they fly off the handle. 

 

That's true for some people.  For some other people, it does take some time to process it and then it comes out in different ways.