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[phoray]

So, my PC in every game is far more observant than I am and the dialogue wheel prompts me when I'm short on the uptake. It really struck me when I got into a conversation with Krem about actually having been *spolier* born a woman.*end spoiler.*

 

It had never occurred to me that Krem was different that way. It was a shock, although not unpleasant. Frankly, the dialogue wheel told me and I was left going...umm...geez, all these seem like mostly confused offensive questions, I'll go with, "How long did you know?" Yeah, *whistles* I totally noticed before this moment....

 

But this has happened to me during other conversations and I was just reading a Blackwall thread that reminded me. Potential spolier in the quote.

 

 

rapscallioness, on 10 May 2016 - 8:22 PM, said:

I strongly suspected BlackWall was not a Warden. Definitely by the time of the Archdemon killing question. His answers before that were plausible, yet the very idea that they were even on the dialogue wheel to be asked made a brow rise.

 

I was like, "The Dialogue Wheel makes a good point. Why are you not disappeared/Hearing the Calling?"

 

 

 Anyone else have moments where the Dialogue options caught you up on the subtle information?

[ArcadiaGrey]

It can be as subtle as a brick sometimes, it definitely leads you by the hand.  I'd prefer a more ambiguous approach on important facts, I can remember an example from my first ME2 run.

 

ME spoilers ----

 

Spoiler

I was on the abandoned Collector Ship and Shep was talking about the collector body they'd just found.  EDI was doing some DNA tests and the dialogue wheel popped up a couple of seconds before EDI said her line.  I couldn't help but read the options, then EDI said 'Shepard, they're Protheans'.

It ruined the drama completely, the impact of her line was gone as I had just read something like 'how could they be Protheans?' on the dialogue wheel.  It ruined one of the few plot points in the game I hadn't already been spoilered about.  I would totally have had this face if I hadn't read that - 

Now if they'd written 'but how could they be?' instead, I could still have had that duh-duh-duh!!! moment.

 

It's happened other times too in DA and ME, a little more elegance in the sentences written would help and you can still convey the sentiment whilst not putting PROTHEAN in the text.  

 

The excellent voice acting in DA and ME should be the vehicle that tells the story, not the flipping dialogue wheel.

[Gervaise]

On the Krem transgenda thing, I was pretty slow on the uptake too.    Looking back on it I'm not sure if it was the fact that I had no reason to doubt Krem was a man or that I am so used to women filling any role in Thedas that being a woman or a man wasn't really an issue, so why would I mention it?    The first time the dialogue wheel offered me "Why do you pass" when we were all drinking together I ignored it but then later I was alone with Krem and it offered it to me again, so I took it just to see what it was all about.   My reaction on hearing Krem's whole story was "Fair enough" and that was it, no big deal.     To me the odd thing was because most roles in Thedas are gender blind, they had to come up with a reason why it would suddenly be an issue in Tevinter.   Then you have the Qun apparently not having an issue with it when in the past we were told they are adamant that you fill the role your gender is suited for and why would they not have an issue with the individual deciding which gender they were?    

 

To be honest, though, most of the time the dialogue seems to lag behind what I know or have guessed about a character and I find it really frustrating that my character still appears oblivious.    In the case of Blackwall, not only was the whole business of him not knowing things a Warden should know (although my character wouldn't be aware of that) and apparently not hearing the Calling, but that journal entry from the real Blackwall that you find up in Leliana's area which totally contradicted what Blackwall says he was doing during the 5th Blight.   

[Dai Grepher]

Nope. In fact, there are things the dialogue wheel did not have that I would have preferred to see, especially during Trespasser.

And yes, I saw Krem coming a mile away. I've known the sound of Jennifer Hale's voice since the Real Adventures of Jonny Quest.

[nightscrawl]

Occasionally, yes. On the first play I usually take almost all of the investigate options, mostly because I don't know where they'll lead. On subsequent plays I am able to use that meta information to RP a bit more effectively, which usually leads to my not asking specific questions.

[Remmirath]

I'm not always particularly observant myself, so that has definitely happened to me. If it's possible, and I think my character wouldn't have noticed, I don't choose those options -- but it's not always possible.

 

To be fair, it's not just the dialogue wheel (and I say that despite how much I dislike the dialogue wheel in general). That's been happening with dialogue options in RPGs for as long as I've been playing them, at least. Sometimes the writers think something is really obvious, I assume, but it's not at all obvious to a portion of those playing the game, and then you run into that situation. It's probably pretty hard to avoid from the writer's point of view. I've definitely had it happen when planning face-to-face campaigns that I think the clues I've laid are perhaps even too obvious, but the PCs never even pick up on them (or get obsessed with an entirely different notion and disregard all the evidence). It's one of those things that is, so far, an innate weakness of CRPGs no matter the model of dialogue, because you can improvise around that and go with the flow in a face-to-face game, but you have to stick with the original assumptions made in a CRPG.