28 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

Even if using the amulet again was possible, it wouldn't solve the issue that prevents you from recruiting both in the first place: without Divine Justinia (or maybe some other credibly neutral third party), neither side is willing to work with the other. Period. Full stop.

 

Yet they were both willing to negotiate with the Inquisition, which contained both mages and templars from the get-go?

 

Almost all of the harsh Templar leadership is wiped or turned into Red Templars out in CotJ even in the BEST circumstances.  The remainder get along with mages fairly well.

 

Yes, both groups contained hardliners.  This wouldn't stop the majority of them from changing their positions once they were revealed to be dupes.

[PsychoBlonde]

But if you went back in time to before the Templars were corrupted, that would take you to before Dorian has the amulet in his possession thus eliminating the means through wish you accomplished the time travel in the first place and furthermore, the mages would then be corrupted by Alexius because you were busy assisting the Templars.

 

There would be two "you's" simultaneously--one who would go to Redcliffe as in the standard timeline, and one who would go to Therinfall Redoubt.  The one who went to Redcliffe would reach Skyhold, travel back in time, and become the one who went to Therinfall Redoubt.  You wouldn't have to travel again from that point, just wait until "you" left, then march to Skyhold with whatever templars you'd managed to save.

 

Alexius already used this method to get to Redcliffe long before he should have been able to.  He tried repeatedly in the alternate timeline to use the same method to get rid of the Inquisitor but found he couldn't.  So it's been done and you know it works in the sense of being able to manipulate events (otherwise you couldn't have used the future knowledge of the alternate timeline to prevent it from happening).  It's just limited in what it can and can't change.  You couldn't prevent the vast majority of the Templars from turning, for instance, but you might be able to save the lives of the few who resisted.

[Raizen10e]

Even if using the amulet again was possible, it wouldn't solve the issue that prevents you from recruiting both in the first place: without Divine Justinia (or maybe some other credibly neutral third party), neither side is willing to work with the other. Period. Full stop.

 

Which makes sense, given the setup. The Templars left because they didn't want someone else overriding their decisions about when and whether they could kidnap, jail, abuse, lobotomize, or kill mages. The mages were fed up with being kidnapped, jailed, abused, lobotomized and killed at the whim of an anti-mage religious army. The Inquisition, prior to dealing with the Winter Palace and perhaps Adamant, arguably doesn't have the reputation to be a credible alternative to Justinia as a peace broker.

 

Time was never the problem. Centuries of systemic abuse and fundamentally incompatible worldviews were the problem.

This! This is just amazing. 

Ignoring for a fact we arent sure on the specifics of the time travel spell, and therefor have no basis to say what WOULD be possible. The 2 groups are at WAR with each other. The whole reason the inquisition even exists is because the peace talks to end the war ended with an explosion, and each side pointing fingers at the other. Its hard enough to keep the ones who defected in line... like we see when Cullen has to break up a fight in front of the church. The idea that they would be indebted to you and be FORCED to work together would be a temporary fix at best and at worst, your own army can't coordinate and work together long enough to gain any respect for real power.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Yet they were both willing to negotiate with the Inquisition, which contained both mages and templars from the get-go?

 

Almost all of the harsh Templar leadership is wiped or turned into Red Templars out in CotJ even in the BEST circumstances.  The remainder get along with mages fairly well.

 

Yes, both groups contained hardliners.  This wouldn't stop the majority of them from changing their positions once they were revealed to be dupes.

Stragglers and singletons aren't institutions. Joining up with an organization that has a few individual mages and templars isn't the same thing as showing up to Haven and finding out that the official faction you oppose and which opposed you has set up camp a hundred feet away. Whatever we see of templars in the Inquisition, they're not having to deal with the same mages who refused to submit to them and broke away from the Chantry to get away from them - they're dealing with a handful that are loyal to either the goals of the Inquisition (Solas and Dorian) or to the Circle/Chantry (Vivienne, and maybe a few unnamed, unseen individuals).

 

I'll concede that technically it might work if you conscript the mages and then go after the Templars (the bulk of the institution that followed Lucius), but then ultimately you've got the same situation as existed before the Conclave: two factions with diametrically opposed goals. You might be able to make it last long enough to seal the Breach and evacuate Haven, but then you're back where you started: with two warring factions under the roof of a group that I don't think has the political or military power to act as an effective intermediary (not until after WEWH at minimum, with the backing of the Orlesian army). And worse, now the war's literally on your doorstep.

 

"The enemy could not follow, and with time to doubt, we turn to blame." Can you imagine the clusterfsck it would be to have still angry mages and templars (and their leadership) in the same camp after Haven? Because nothing about their grievances has changed. Their goals (survival and freedom for the mages, control and maybe self-determination for the templars) aren't ones the Inquisition can meet.

 

ETA: Ultimately, there's a difference between recruiting the faction/insitution and saving a few reasonable stragglers. I wish we'd been able to do the latter, especially since saving a faction certainly didn't reduce the number of Red Templars or Venatori that we encounter in the game. I think it could have worked, even without a second use of the amulet, because neither Fiona nor Barris seemed particularly stupid, just manipulated. But recruiting both factions wasn't ever going to work. They're two groups with mutually exclusive goals.