196 réponses à ce sujet

[Catilina]

Thanks! I had heard that, but couldn't remember the quote.

Also, I recall the writer explaining the reason why Anders didn't tell fem Hawke about Karl, was because she didn't think he would tell a girl he was interested in that. Which I guess makes sense. If you're flirting with someone you don't immediately bring up your ex....unless I guess you want to find out how that person feels about it (like whether male Hawke is interested in other men).

But he also has this great line about loving the whole person... Which is another reason why I think the friendmance works better with m Hawke.

 

Hmm ... good response, I think.

[nightscrawl]

Thanks! I had heard that, but couldn't remember the quote.

Also, I recall the writer explaining the reason why Anders didn't tell fem Hawke about Karl, was because she didn't think he would tell a girl he was interested in that. Which I guess makes sense. If you're flirting with someone you don't immediately bring up your ex....unless I guess you want to find out how that person feels about it (like whether male Hawke is interested in other men).

But he also has this great line about loving the whole person... Which is another reason why I think the friendmance works better with m Hawke.

 
That was David Gaider in this thread, not Jennifer Hepler.
 

... or are somehow baffled that Anders would not mention his relationship with a man to a woman (in what world would someone do this?)...

[Sah291]

That was David Gaider in this thread, not Jennifer Hepler.

Ah, that's right, it was DG who talked about it, but it seemed he was just re-explaining Hepler's intention. The original quote came from an old GameSpy article where he mentioned it.

[nightscrawl]

^ Ty, always looking for more source quotes.

[Beregond5]

I prefer the Anders romance with a male Hawke, as well. The quote about loving a person as a whole is great, but I also like the line he says near the end. Something like 'there will come a time that two people, like you and me, will be able to be in love without people hating us for what we are.' At first glance, he implies mages, but with a male Hawke, this becomes an even more powerful line, I think.

[vbibbi]

 
A Buffy/Angel vibe was what they were going for, apparently (this is from the Collector's Edition of the Game Guide, which had some bonus stuff in it)

 

Interesting, I'd never heard this before!

 

 
That was David Gaider in this thread, not Jennifer Hepler.
 

 

Hm, I don't really agree with their opinion on this. Granted, I'm not bisexual so I am not speaking from experience on this specific issue, but I think someone who is bisexual would want to be open about their sexuality with a partner regardless of the partner's gender. It's a problem if they feel they need to hide their bisexuality from their partner if it's going to cause friction.

 

Part of the problem is the whole Karl thing happens when we meet Anders rather than when we've already known him for a while. So yes, someone might not broadcast their sexual history with a stranger that they're flirting with, but then he probably shouldn't have done so with male!Hawke.

 

Perhaps what could have been better is in Act 2 he mentions his sexuality to female!Hawke who is romanced, or have her say something that shows that she is aware of his sexuality and doesn't have an issue with it.

 

I prefer the Anders romance with a male Hawke, as well. The quote about loving a person as a whole is great, but I also like the line he says near the end. Something like 'there will come a time that two people, like you and me, will be able to be in love without people hating us for what we are.' At first glance, he implies mages, but with a male Hawke, this becomes an even more powerful line, I think.

Exactly. I know some can feel it's heavy handed or equating LGBT rights with mage rights too much, but that really sets the tragic tone of Anders' story to me.

[Biotic Apostate]

I prefer the Anders romance with a male Hawke, as well. The quote about loving a person as a whole is great, but I also like the line he says near the end. Something like 'there will come a time that two people, like you and me, will be able to be in love without people hating us for what we are.' At first glance, he implies mages, but with a male Hawke, this becomes an even more powerful line, I think.

Of course not everyone will like it, like vbibbi said, but Anders had a lot of lines that make some of us think about real life homophobia. Part of the reason I can't bring myself to side with the templars in canon with neither my Hawke, nor my Inquisitor.

 

I think he should have mentioned Karl in both romances, where the male version was. The line "We haven't been together for a long time. But still...it hurt." seems like an appropriate comment to make to someone, who just tried to help you save Karl. Plus it's an RPG, oversharing is pretty natural (and something they tried to avoid in ME3, by having Shepard listen in to people's conversations). Besides, Anders craves affection, to me it seems pretty in character for him to share so much this early on.

[Lulupab]

Regarding friend/rival romance, the comments you will hear about Anders in DA:I will indicate a friend romance, so in a way friend romance is the canon one here.

[MisterJB]

Murder Knife.

 

[Biotic Apostate]

How original.

[Milana]

Male. But thats just my preference.

[Lulupab]

Anders romance is just brutal (in a good way) with lots of feels and nice quotes. Also its surprisingly mature and "romantic". For example most companions either don't use the L word at all, or say it once near the end. Anders will say it whenever it matters, which is quite a few times.

 

However its definitely not for everyone, hence the unoriginal murder knife post.

[Sah291]

@Biotic Apostate, I agree.

There's actually a mod that adds the Karl line in for fem Hawke (and changes a few other things, like adding in the final kiss for the friendmance). If you like to mod your games.

That's another thing...the friendmance version really should have had a kiss to seal the deal. I'm not sure why they didn't...whether it was an artistic choice, or lack of resources, or they thought players might not have liked it for whatever reason.

I know some have said he seems more like Justice at the end of the friendmance, and is more stoic and serious then. But still. Justice was the sentimental one who like poetry books...just look at some of his lines from DAA.

[vbibbi]

I know some people were upset that DAA Anders' voice actor changed in DA2, but I thought he did a good job in conveying the character's angst and desperation. It was so clear and so sad how desperate Anders was for affection, and how even that need for love was diminished by Justice gradually taking over his control.

 

His lines in the game were some of the most moving for me, along with Orsino's line about how society should just drown mages as infants if they're going to be treated like this their whole lives.

[Biotic Apostate]

@Sah291

I've heard about the mod, and while it's great they added the mention about Karl, they also transferred some lines from Marian to Garrett, which I didn't like. As I said, these lines changed the tone of the romance, so I would recommend it only for female Hawke.

Concerning the kiss:

Spoiler

On it's own, it doesn't make sense they wouldn't kiss after such a heartfelt exchange. But you should consider what that kiss meant in the rivalry route - it was a final goodbye. Anders expected to die in battle or if he survived, he already decided to commit suicide. That kiss was the last tiny shred of affection. In the friend route I took it to mean, in contrast, "we'll get to do it later, we're going to make it through." It could have been included, but ultimately I didn't mind.

 

@vbibbi

Just to be sure, under the cut

Spoiler

Of course that's more of a headcanon, but I think Anders' need for love did not fade as the game progressed. I think that was a deliberate move on his side to distance himself from Hawke and make it easier on them both, when he's executed for the Chantry. I don't think he had foreseen Hawke would be the one to do it, but he wanted to be punished. Jennifer Hepler said that the element from bipolar that she added to Anders was, among other things, his "huge and all-encompassing love." I think he loved Hawke so much, that he decided it's better for him to hate Anders, so he would take his death easier. But again, headcanon.

[Sah291]

I liked his DA2 voice actor too, and the overall change. It was interesting.

I may be in a minority, but I actually liked Justice a lot in DAA too, and had him in my party maybe even more than Anders, so I could see where the writer tried to blend them together.

@Biotic Apostate,
Thanks for the info. There were two versions of the mod if I recall, one with fewer changes. But I'm just at the start of a new play through with it and haven't finished yet so I'm not sure how I like it.

I agree, the kiss has a different tone in rivalry, as it is really a goodbye kiss. I can see where he is more focused on the battle in the friendship version. But still, they didn't know if they were gonna survive then either, so I wouldn't have been opposed to one.

[vbibbi]

@Sah291
I've heard about the mod, and while it's great they added the mention about Karl, they also transferred some lines from Marian to Garrett, which I didn't like. As I said, these lines changed the tone of the romance, so I would recommend it only for female Hawke.
Concerning the kiss:

Spoiler

On it's own, it doesn't make sense they wouldn't kiss after such a heartfelt exchange. But you should consider what that kiss meant in the rivalry route - it was a final goodbye. Anders expected to die in battle or if he survived, he already decided to commit suicide. That kiss was the last tiny shred of affection. In the friend route I took it to mean, in contrast, "we'll get to do it later, we're going to make it through." It could have been included, but ultimately I didn't mind.

 
@vbibbi
Just to be sure, under the cut

Spoiler

Of course that's more of a headcanon, but I think Anders' need for love did not fade as the game progressed. I think that was a deliberate move on his side to distance himself from Hawke and make it easier on them both, when he's executed for the Chantry. I don't think he had foreseen Hawke would be the one to do it, but he wanted to be punished. Jennifer Hepler said that the element from bipolar that she added to Anders was, among other things, his "huge and all-encompassing love." I think he loved Hawke so much, that he decided it's better for him to hate Anders, so he would take his death easier. But again, headcanon.

I didn't mean that his desire or need for love diminished, but that Justice made sure that striking against the Circles was more important. I saw it more as human!Anders' primary desire was to be loved and accepted. Justice's was for...justice as he sees it. And by the end of the game, blowing up the Chantry and Anders being unwilling to involve Hawke in his plans demonstrates that Justice/Vengeance has gained control over Anders the human. It's more evident in the rivalry path when Anders blacks out and Justice takes over for stretches of time. In the friendship path Anders believes his goals mesh with Justice's.

So it's sad to me because human!Anders' greatest wish could have been attainable. He could have lived in Hawke's estate and probably been happy had he been the same person as he was in DAA. But possessed!Anders will never be happy because his desires are larger than one person and impossible to achieve in one lifetime. Anders signed away any chance of true happiness when he agreed to join with Justice. And I don't think that was his original intention, he just wanted to help a friend and become a better man.

[Biotic Apostate]

^ While I agree Anders and Justice pulled in different directions at times, I don't think human!Anders would be truly content with just living with Hawke as it was. Anders' outrage at what was happening in the circles was apparent even in DAA. He just didn't act, because he though he'd never accomplish anything (and would lose his freedom or worse). And I think his constant fear of templars swooping in and locking him away is mostly on him, not Justice. After so many escape attempts, it's only natural he'd be looking over his shoulder all the time. Living in the mansion would make him feel guilty and afraid mage Hawke's immunity would run out someday (and he would probably be right).

 

And (I feel like I've made that argument before) in the rivalry path Hawke changes Anders more than Justice ever did. At the end, he think mages should be contained, that he made a mistake merging with Justice. Like in most of the rivalry paths, he ends up hating himself and his goals. But I don't think that means human!Anders deep down would disagree with Justice (although I know Anders alone would not go as far as destroying the chantry), I see it as indication of how much of an influence Hawke had over his friends. Rivalry or not, Hawke's acceptance is what he needs, so if he says Anders is wrong about everything, in the end he will agree, even if it destroys him.

 

All of this also doesn't take into account what Hawke would have done, especially a mage one. Mine would definitely not watch what's happening in Kirkwall and not intervene. It's Thedas, not many get to spend their lives without some hardship.

[Sah291]

Yeah I don't think they could have kept living together in the estate as they were. Hawke was either an apostate...or harboring them and/or living with one, and tensions were coming to a head in the city. It was always going to come to an end, I think. Even a rival Templar siding Hawke eventually gets forced out, due to the Templars starting to use the red lyrium and all.

[Biotic Apostate]

Kirkwall was a bad place to live in, anyway (which is why I dislike some of the ending slides from Trespasser). With all of the death, loss, and veil connected instability, there is little holding them there. I think first fleeing, then travelling when the war calms down (and setting up temporary clinics wherever they go, because it's Anders we're talking about) is better for both Hawke and Anders. I don't think Justice would keep pushing Anders after the chantry. He'd probably be satisfied with having done their part.

[Sah291]

I didn't mean that his desire or need for love diminished, but that Justice made sure that striking against the Circles was more important. I saw it more as human!Anders' primary desire was to be loved and accepted. Justice's was for...justice as he sees it. And by the end of the game, blowing up the Chantry and Anders being unwilling to involve Hawke in his plans demonstrates that Justice/Vengeance has gained control over Anders the human.

I'm not sure it's necessarily that his cause is more important... I think it's more that he knows Hawke loves his human side (Anders), but he either doesn't know how Hawke feels about Justice, or he knows that Hawke outright opposes that side of him. So from his perspective, there's a part of him that Hawke doesn't love.

It's telling on the friendship path, if you back out of his quest, he'll ask how you can claim to love him while opposing everything he stands for, and how he stands for the cause of the mages. That's clearly coming from Justice, IMO.

And yet, if you do agree to help with the whole separation thing (even though it's a lie), Anders has his answer that Hawke does want Justice gone.

Or at least, that's how I see it, and I find it really sad.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Anders romance - Male or Female Hawke

 

The answer is neither.

 

 

Listen to Boromir.

[Catilina]

[...]

Thank you for the very important information. You helped a lot.

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Thank you for the very important information. You helped a lot.

 

 

You can stop Merrill from being a Blood Mage, you can change Isabela to become a better person, you can make Fenris more accepting of mages and you can encourage Sebastian to do his princely duties. However, no matter what you do, you cannot change Anders' mind. No matter how nice or firm Hawke is with him, he ends up being a terrorist. Therefore, screw Anders.

[Catilina]

You can stop Merrill from being a Blood Mage, you can change Isabela to become a better person, you can make Fenris more accepting of mages and you can encourage Sebastian to do his princely duties. However, no matter what you do, you cannot change Anders' mind. No matter how nice or firm Hawke is with him, he ends up being a terrorist. Therefore, screw Anders.