Questa discussione ha avuto 196 risposte

[vertigomez]

Missing out on the talk about ex-boyfriends isn't a big deal. A nice bonus, but that's it.
You know what romance greatly favors a same sex relationship over a straight one? ISABELA'S.
Just look at this.
http://youtu.be/4Z5jDWxae1Q
http://youtu.be/yWv9l26vzzE
She is more emotionally involved in a romance with F!Hawke.

While I agree that Isabela's dynamic with a female vs. male Hawke is very different, I'm pretty sure this isn't 100% accurate? Someone said that she gets jealous over m!Hawke in MotA if you play it in Act III. So it's not that she's less emotionally invested, it just takes her longer to trust m!Hawke because of her history with men.

I don't know if this is true or not, though. I romanced her with both, but played MotA in Act II...

[Catilina]

To elaborate on this, the icon itself is important. The fist is usually an aggressive or angry response, while the gavel is a more direct response. I try to pick gavel responses when I can if they are appropriate. Similarly, if you don't want to play a sarcastic Hawke, you can still occasionally pick the purple gem for charming and get a nice remark; some of the mask humorous responses are rather cringe worthy, so I avoid those. Also, the blue angel can be too nice and sweet, whereas the diplomatic olive branch is more moderate.

Yes. I see what you mean. But in this case the fist is not directed against Anders. (In Fenris' bed scene the fist also not agressive, rather disappointed answer... by the way, it is the only acceptable answer there) As I feel. 

 

(stupid icons, I think.)

[Spirit Vanguard]

To elaborate on this, the icon itself is important. The fist is usually an aggressive or angry response, while the gavel is a more direct response. I try to pick gavel responses when I can if they are appropriate. Similarly, if you don't want to play a sarcastic Hawke, you can still occasionally pick the purple gem for charming and get a nice remark; some of the mask humorous responses are rather cringe worthy, so I avoid those. Also, the blue angel can be too nice and sweet, whereas the diplomatic olive branch is more moderate.

I think sometimes it's best: look at: Anders visibly relaxed; in fact, he glad of the support. Fenris also have moments, when it is the best answer (Not [only] in rivalry mode, because you gain + 5 friendship points, if you use red answer for example, when he asked for come with him to meet Varania.) The aggressiveness are negative, but sturdiness is positive, it gives strength, shift of lethargy and uncertainty, etc. Kindness (or how i can say better?) is not always solution.

True. I've played the game enough to have figured out which responses I prefer to pick or avoid in certain conversations. Even if Anders appears to be more relaxed with this response, I'd still rather not pick it. I like the blue response because it reinforces my feeling that Hawke isn't going to give up on their love no matter what.

[Catilina]

True. I've played the game enough to have figured out which responses I prefer to pick or avoid in certain conversations. Even if Anders appears to be more relaxed with this response, I'd still rather not pick it. I like the blue response because it reinforces my feeling that Hawke isn't going to give up on their love no matter what.

But this response shows that Hawke will always stand by Anders side in everything, anything happens, and protect him from everything. Anders is a hot-headed dreamer (with an angry spirit!), he need a pragmatic strong protector, who support him, and belive his goal. (My point of view.)

[Spirit Vanguard]

But this response shows that Hawke will always stand by Anders side in everything, anything happens, and protect him from everything. Anders is a hot-headed dreamer (with an angry spirit!), he need a pragmatic strong protector, who support him, and belive his goal. (My point of view.)

Perhaps so, if that's how it feels to you. It just doesn't feel that way to me.

To me it's: we should put our emotions aside for now because more important things are happening.

Whereas the blue: our emotions are just as important and don't need to be ignored. In other words; we can have our cake and it too. ;D

It's not right or wrong, we just interpret it differently.

[Catilina]

Perhaps so, if that's how it feels to you. It just doesn't feel that way to me.
To me it's: we should put our emotions aside for now because more important things are happening.
Whereas the blue: our emotions are just as important and don't need to be ignored. In other words; we can have our cake and it too. ;D
It's not right or wrong, we just interpret it differently.

That's why I wrote: My point of view.  And: the feeling is probably similar, the expression is different.

[Spirit Vanguard]

That's why I wrote: My point of view.  And: the feeling is probably similar, the expression is different.

 

I know, I was agreeing with you.

 

Haha, this is another case of Internet + Words = Fail for me.

[Almila_Lavellan]

Well, I assume my preference is not quite popular but I like romancing Anders as a female Hawke. I think it is mainly because I always play as a female character. I thought some scenes with Anders looked better with female Hawke such as kissing scene in front of fireplace because he looks like he is going to kiss someone shorter than him - maybe it's just me    And honestly, in Awakening I got the impression that he was a straight man because only female Warden had a flirt line and he flirted with Velanna too.

 

Also It was sad how Anders didn't tell my female Hawke his relationship with Karl. I didn't know about it until I saw it on the net since I didn't play as a male Hawke   Actually, it was strange because I remember Zevran's talking about his private life with my female GW and he didn't hide he felt attraction to men.   I wish Anders' relationship with Karl wasn't hidden from female Hawke. It hurts  

[Spirit Vanguard]

Well, I assume my preference is not quite popular but I like romancing Anders as a female Hawke. I think it is mainly because I always play as a female character. I thought some scenes with Anders looked better with female Hawke such as kissing scene in front of fireplace because he looks like he is going to kiss someone shorter than him - maybe it's just me    And honestly, in Awakening I got the impression that he was a straight man because only female Warden had a flirt line and he flirted with Velanna too.

 

Also It was sad how Anders didn't tell my female Hawke his relationship with Karl. I didn't know about it until I saw it on the net since I didn't play as a male Hawke   Actually, it was strange because I remember Zevran's talking about his private life with my female GW and he didn't hide he felt attraction to men.   I wish Anders' relationship with Karl wasn't hidden from female Hawke. It hurts

 

I don't disagree -- my canon Hawke is female with Anders romance, because I also like playing female characters. I would just rather Hawke be treated the same/given the same content regardless of gender. It does hurt.

 

Well... Origins/Awakening has a bit of an unusual situation, I suppose, and Anders is a part of that. But even so, he doesn't appear to be as comfortable flirting with men in the open like Zevran (who is even still cautious), so, it does make sense. Just because we don't actively see him get cozy with men doesn't mean he doesn't like to.

 

Edit: Also, you're not given the chance to flirt with Anders if you're a male Warden, so, there's that.

[nightscrawl]

... he need a pragmatic strong protector, who support him, and belive his goal. (My point of view.)

That is your view, of course, and that is perfectly fine, but the "protector" thing rubs me the wrong way. I don't know... perhaps because, as a female player, that is the sort of relationship dynamic that is usually forced on women, so I dislike seeing it in ANY pairing. I like a couple to be presented as equal partners, in ability and strength; they may be different abilities and strengths -- physical versus magical, and so forth -- but still equal.

Supportive, yes, 100% agree with that. Protection, to me, implies that one party needs protecting, and thus is weak, which is why I dislike it.

[Catilina]

That is your view, of course, and that is perfectly fine, but the "protector" thing rubs me the wrong way. I don't know... perhaps because, as a female player, that is the sort of relationship dynamic that is usually forced on women, so I dislike seeing it in ANY pairing. I like a couple to be presented as equal partners, in ability and strength; they may be different abilities and strengths -- physical versus magical, and so forth -- but still equal.

Supportive, yes, 100% agree with that. Protection, to me, implies that one party needs protecting, and thus is weak, which is why I dislike it.

Everyone need protection in sometimes, no one is invulnerable. Anders did more than once need protection (okay, I can say: support) during the game, and he also requested (Ella quest, Legacy). Fenris need protection too (he also asked for it), but he are not weak. The protector can be interpreted in many different ways. For example Fenris is itself protective, also Carver and Aveline as well. Anders want to protect all the mages, and Hawke support him and try to protect him from templars (and from Justice/Vengeance). I think this is not unequal relationship. Several human nature exist: protective, caring, careless, etc. Each can be incredibly annoying, for example my Hawke want to protect he's little brother from the Deep Roads, therefore left Carver in home. My rogue Hawke try to protect Bethany from Templars, therefor bring her to Deep Roads. The protective trait can be positive and negative as well. My Hawkes never perfect... I'm sorry if I phrased ambiguously.

[workforme]

Everyone need protection in sometimes, no one is invulnerable. Anders did more than once need protection (okay, I can say: support) during the game, and he also requested (Ella quest, Legacy). Fenris need protection too (he also asked for it), but he are not weak. The protector can be interpreted in many different ways. For example Fenris is itself protective, also Carver and Aveline as well. Anders want to protect all the mages, and Hawke support him and try to protect him from templars (and from Justice/Vengeance). I think this is not unequal relationship. Several human nature exist: protective, caring, careless, etc. Each can be incredibly annoying, for example my Hawke want to protect he's little brother from the Deep Roads, therefore left Carver in home. My rogue Hawke try to protect Bethany from Templars, therefor bring her to Deep Roads. The protective trait can be positive and negative as well. My Hawkes never perfect... I'm sorry if I phrased ambiguously.

 

In short, everyone need a champion.

[Catilina]

In short, everyone need a champion.

Sometimes come in handy.

[nightscrawl]

My post was really more about how that is portrayed in fiction than about being generally protective in a real sense.

[Catilina]

I understand you, and I agree with you. Probably I badly formulated. Of course a good relationship is based on equality and mutual respect, but each person is different.

[Biotic Apostate]

That is your view, of course, and that is perfectly fine, but the "protector" thing rubs me the wrong way. I don't know... perhaps because, as a female player, that is the sort of relationship dynamic that is usually forced on women, so I dislike seeing it in ANY pairing. I like a couple to be presented as equal partners, in ability and strength; they may be different abilities and strengths -- physical versus magical, and so forth -- but still equal.

Supportive, yes, 100% agree with that. Protection, to me, implies that one party needs protecting, and thus is weak, which is why I dislike it.

I've seen people pick up the protector trope far more often with a gay pairing. I feel it looses the negative feel to it, when it stops being gendered (as in the weak woman needs to be protected by her strong man). I can see, why some would see protection as undermining the strength of the character on the receiving end, but I don't see it like that, at least not here. Both Hawke and Anders throw themselves in harm's way to help others, so it would be natural for them to want to protect each other (that is another way in which same-sex pairings differs from straight pairings - both partners can take the role of the protector). In the examples I've seen it was more about just wanting to protect the ones you love, and less about showing those characters as weak damsels.

 

To come back to Catilina's post - Anders does need a protector, someone to watch out for him, but so does Hawke, in my opinion.

[Almila_Lavellan]

I don't disagree -- my canon Hawke is female with Anders romance, because I also like playing female characters. I would just rather Hawke be treated the same/given the same content regardless of gender. It does hurt.

 

Well... Origins/Awakening has a bit of an unusual situation, I suppose, and Anders is a part of that. But even so, he doesn't appear to be as comfortable flirting with men in the open like Zevran (who is even still cautious), so, it does make sense. Just because we don't actively see him get cozy with men doesn't mean he doesn't like to.

 

Edit: Also, you're not given the chance to flirt with Anders if you're a male Warden, so, there's that.

 

Don't get me wrong - I didn't mean he was supposed to be a straight man, I meant that I really didn't realize he was bi in Awakening. I don't know, I suppose I expected him to be open about it like Zevran, or I thought there should have been a flirt line with male GW to imply that. Yeah, I know male GW doesn't have a chance to flirt with Anders and I found it strange.

Of course, he has a different personality and it may be the cause of his not talking freely about it.

[vertigomez]

I've seen people pick up the protector trope far more often with a gay pairing. I feel it looses the negative feel to it, when it stops being gendered (as in the weak woman needs to be protected by her strong man). I can see, why some would see protection as undermining the strength of the character on the receiving end, but I don't see it like that, at least not here. Both Hawke and Anders throw themselves in harm's way to help others, so it would be natural for them to want to protect each other (that is another way in which same-sex pairings differs from straight pairings - both partners can take the role of the protector). In the examples I've seen it was more about just wanting to protect the ones you love, and less about showing those characters as weak damsels.
 
To come back to Catilina's post - Anders does need a protector, someone to watch out for him, but so does Hawke, in my opinion.

Spoiler tagged just because I'm kind of going on a tangent (and also not particularly aimed at Anders, seeing as I don't romance him ).

Spoiler

I find that this is one of the reasons I very generally speaking, and not without exceptions, prefer DA's same-sex romances to its opposite-sex ones. Regardless of whether it's f/f or m/m, the dynamic is more familiar and comfortable to me and I find that there are fewer gendered expectations within the relationship (yes, even a fictional one where 80% of it is headcanon anyway and women have way more autonomy than an they would in non-fantasy medieval society). Socialization is a thing and it's nice to just be able to throw that to the wayside from the beginning, and not have it be assumed who the 'protector' is, who the breadwinner is, how you're intimate, etc., etc.

I'm not explaining myself very well and I'm probably offending someone aaand this has almost nothing to do with Anders or any other bisexual LI in particular because I think they're great no matter who you romance them with, it's aimed more at my own enjoyment of the romances than anything? Your post just got me thinking. /scuttles away

[Qun00]

Supportive, yes, 100% agree with that. Protection, to me, implies that one party needs protecting, and thus is weak, which is why I dislike it.

Mmm... sometimes, but not absolutely. That sentiment can be mutual, in the sense that they worry about each other's well being and have no tolerance for those that wish harm upon the loved one.

Depends on context and how it is said.

[Catilina]

Nevermind. I never thought of it as unequal relationship. Hawke protects Anders, but not because he think: Anders is a weak flower, rather because he do not want to lost him for the Templars (or Justice) This occurs several times during the game: for example – before the first kiss, after the first night, and in the personal quest: The Key to Your Heart . But yes, Anders equally able to defend Hawke in a fight, and Hawke able to leave Kirkwall and his property to follow him anywhere (they can even do not know that this is not optional). In my view: Anders and Hawke are lovers, best friends and brothers in arms. (Theirs relationship a bit compromised, because Anders did not tell us what the purpose is, therefore, Hawke disappointed, but somewhat understandable from the perspective Anders – Anders want to protect Hawke from the self-accusation.)

[Biotic Apostate]

Spoiler tagged just because I'm kind of going on a tangent (and also not particularly aimed at Anders, seeing as I don't romance him ).

Spoiler

I find that this is one of the reasons I very generally speaking, and not without exceptions, prefer DA's same-sex romances to its opposite-sex ones. Regardless of whether it's f/f or m/m, the dynamic is more familiar and comfortable to me and I find that there are fewer gendered expectations within the relationship (yes, even a fictional one where 80% of it is headcanon anyway and women have way more autonomy than an they would in non-fantasy medieval society). Socialization is a thing and it's nice to just be able to throw that to the wayside from the beginning, and not have it be assumed who the 'protector' is, who the breadwinner is, how you're intimate, etc., etc.

I'm not explaining myself very well and I'm probably offending someone aaand this has almost nothing to do with Anders or any other bisexual LI in particular because I think they're great no matter who you romance them with, it's aimed more at my own enjoyment of the romances than anything? Your post just got me thinking. /scuttles away

You're getting a [Biotic likes this] until I get my likes back

Spoiler

I agree, even if the writers don't intend it so, and make strong female characters, there are some conventions they fall into. When you have a same-sex pairing, the conscious and subconscious choices based on genders go away. Even if a big part of it can be headcanoned, it does make a difference. The relationship is just less constrained, it just doesn't have to adhere to any expectations.

 

I mean, actually Anders is a good example. The alternate dialogues for female Hawke did make it seem like he was less on equal terms with her and trying to push her away, so she doesn't get harmed. I know Jennifer Hepler did not mean anything bad with that variation. Some people didn't have a problem with that, while others have called Anders sexist, but I don't think that was intended. 

[Sah291]

Interesting, I agree, the preconceived gender role expectations do tend to go away in a same sex pairing, and that's part of what made it feel more equal than with fem Hawke.

To me, I guess I tend to base these kinds of things on personality type. Hawke, both male and female, fits that "protector" role easily because of how independent and strong he/she is written to be. Hawke grew up on the run with their family, and is used to being in that role and knows what it takes to survive that sort of lifestyle.

Contrast that to Merrill, who is inexperienced with outsiders and not used to fighting, or Fenris and Anders who both have intense emotional issues from slavery and being confined in the Circle.

Hawke's emotional baggage seems to come more from being the person everyone runs to constantly for help, protection, problems, etc....and not always being able to save everyone either. Hawke loses almost his/her entire family. Everyone thinks Hawke is this invincible person.

I did get the sense Anders wanted protection from Hawke too, in the beginning, but things seemed more equal in the end. At least on the friendship route.