I'd gladly dump thermal clips for unlimited ammo interrupted by reloading/cooldowns.
I agree, if I have to choose between that and the poor firearms management BW has done since ME2, which means that a reloading system (whether by clip or anything else) was doable and easily better doable.
But thermal clips are Mass Effect's thing......
And I don't mind running out of ammo and reloading. It adds challenge. Overwatch's challenges are more skill based, therefore eliminating unnecessary
quests for additional ammo. Two completely different games....
Played the Overwatch beta.
Wasn't impressed.
Here we are in 2016 and still these developers don't let us create our own characters for multiplayer games. We can only choose from characters that they designed and only use abilities assigned to those characters.
I want to play a multiplayer game in which I design my own character and determine their weapons and abilities from a large list of them that are available to everyone. This would encourage diversity and freedom for the player instead of the constant pigeon holing I see everywhere.
Mass Effect MP, The Division, and Warframe are examples of games that could have easily done what i'm talking about but didn't for some reason.
*sigh* Whatever.
...you're knocking Overwatch for not being a completely different game, with completely different design principles, and not doing something that's never been done before? That's like complaining about the newest Marvel movie not having Superman in it.
People are talking about unlimited ammo with reloads and I'm just sitting here wanting the overheat mechanic back from Mass Effect 1.
Played the Overwatch beta.
Wasn't impressed.
Here we are in 2016 and still these developers don't let us create our own characters for multiplayer games. We can only choose from characters that they designed and only use abilities assigned to those characters.
I want to play a multiplayer game in which I design my own character and determine their weapons and abilities from a large list of them that are available to everyone. This would encourage diversity and freedom for the player instead of the constant pigeon holing I see everywhere.
Mass Effect MP, The Division, and Warframe are examples of games that could have easily done what i'm talking about but didn't for some reason.
*sigh* Whatever.
This still happens because it's not technology that's preventing us from doing it, it's balance.
If you did this in ME3 MP you'd have people running Devastator Mode, Tactical Cloak, and Hunter Mode as active abilities. It would be 10 times more broken than anything that's ever existed in the game. The only solution would be to simply nerf all of those abilities heavily because they're way too strong when combined.
Restricting abilities to certain characters/kits means being able to create more unique and interesting abilities. If you're going to let people choose from a list of 50 abilities, you have to ensure that none of them have so much synergy that it renders all other setups irrelevant because it's hilariously overpowered.
In Overwatch, Tracer's mobility only works because she's not as damaging as other offensive heroes. If you gave her McCree's revolver, she would be broken.
I HATED the overheat mechanics from ME1, so no thank you. Although I don't want unlimited ammo either, it'd be way too easy and way too unrealistic. I would like to have a realistic amount of ammo which runs out quickly, a bit like real survival horror, at least in those classical ones, even though this isn't a horror game, I'd still like the ammo system to be like that xD
People are talking about unlimited ammo with reloads and I'm just sitting here wanting the overheat mechanic back from Mass Effect 1.
I found it more interesting than it most weapons being "Modern firearms in space".
Though that's not to say it doesn't need fixes to some things, like the ability to dissipate more heat than your gun can generate so you can just fire forever =P
In Overwatch, Tracer's mobility only works because she's not as damaging as other offensive heroes. If you gave her McCree's revolver, she would be broken.
Its high noon...
Here we are in 2016 and still these developers don't let us create our own characters for multiplayer games. We can only choose from characters that they designed and only use abilities assigned to those characters.
lel are going to balance these characters yourself then?
I'm pretty sure McCree's watch looks like this:
People are talking about unlimited ammo with reloads and I'm just sitting here wanting the overheat mechanic back from Mass Effect 1.
This still happens because it's not technology that's preventing us from doing it, it's balance.
If you did this in ME3 MP you'd have people running Devastator Mode, Tactical Cloak, and Hunter Mode as active abilities. It would be 10 times more broken than anything that's ever existed in the game. The only solution would be to simply nerf all of those abilities heavily because they're way too strong when combined.
Restricting abilities to certain characters/kits means being able to create more unique and interesting abilities. If you're going to let people choose from a list of 50 abilities, you have to ensure that none of them have so much synergy that it renders all other setups irrelevant because it's hilariously overpowered.
In Overwatch, Tracer's mobility only works because she's not as damaging as other offensive heroes. If you gave her McCree's revolver, she would be broken.
Seeing as how ME3MP is co-op not PvP I don't see the problem with players being able to come up with highly effective ability setups. One core power and two regular powers or three regular powers.
In PvP you're right that balance is more important than in co-op. If certain things have to be nerfed for that to happen then so be it. That's how I feel about it. I'm sick and tired of pre created characters and abilities in multiplayer games.
Balance will never not be important. It's still important in a single-player game.
It's even more important in games like Warframe and Mass Effect than other co-op games because one of the biggest strengths of those games is the fact that there is a lot of variety. Setups that are absurdly broken discourage using a variety because why bring anything else when it's 5 times more efficient just to bring the OP thing? This eventually leads to people getting bored with the game sooner and quitting.
It's not a case of DM/HM/TC being "highly effective". It would be a case of that setup would be leagues ahead of anything else in the game, so it would be what 90% of the playerbase is using. Kind of like how Firebase White/Geth/Gold was played more than any other setup combined at one point, because it was so much easier to grind credits with that setup.
Actually recently playing through Baldur's Gate that's a good example of what happens when you let something become broken, because magic is completely broken in that game(and D&D in general). Every fight became a CC fight: Either countering it or using it on the enemy before they can use it on me. If you don't carry insane amounts of CC resistance you're going to get wrecked because your entire party will get hit with confusion spam, or web spam, or fear spam, etc.
The game's combat is worse off for this because it now revolves entirely around one effect, rather than allowing for maximum freedom like you had originally wanted.
I never spammed White/Geth/Gold because I don't find that kind of thing to be fun or interesting in any way.
Firebase White before it got changed was one of my favorite stages because I was good at staying alive on it because it had good defensible areas. Cerberus is my favorite faction to fight and it took me a long time to get good enough to play Gold.
It takes effort to balance the skills but it can be done. It's not like these games don't go through craptons of nerfs anyway.
When I ask for player freedom it's so I can create something that works for ME. I'm not looking to create the most powerful setup ever. Simply something suited to my playstyle that I find appealing.
For example, in Dragon's Dogma I have a character that uses Dark element magic exclusively. Not the most effective setup at all because many of the spells only inflict status and not damage and some enemies are simply immune to it. But it works well enough and looks really freaking cool. That's why I chose it after all. Aesthetics. A lot of players run the most powerful and effective setups possible then turn around and complain that the game is too easy. No imagination smh
It takes a lot more effort to balance the skills and requires that you sometimes restrict their functionality so they're not quite so synergistic with everything.
You may not be after the easiest or most broken setup but that's how a lot of the playerbase will take such a setup. The reality is that most people will do something in a game because it's the most efficient or effective setup rather than because it's what they enjoy the most.
From a player standpoint it's easy to shrug it off and say "You gotta take responsibility for your own entertainment", but from a developer standpoint it's something to be concerned about.
I'm sure it's possible for it to be done, but the fact that nobody has really done it in a MP game should suggest that it's an exceedingly difficult design hurdle to overcome that requires significantly more work than simply just creating pre-made kits.
It would be a very interesting thing to actually try in a game I agree but I'm not expecting it on account of how difficult of a balance hurdle it is to overcome, even in a co-op game.
...you're knocking Overwatch for not being a completely different game, with completely different design principles, and not doing something that's never been done before? That's like complaining about the newest Marvel movie not having Superman in it.
From the way it is presented in the lore to how it works in game, Mass Effect 2 & 3's weapons and thermal clip design are probably the dumbest things I have ever seen in a shooter based game.
The disposable thermal clips are meant to be ammo. Period.
If they were truly universal, the player should be able to load *all* their thermal clips into the same weapon. But you can't, because each time you pick up a clip, the game spreads the spare ammo increase among all your guns that are not at max ammo already. If you have a pistol and an assault rifle, both get their ammo count increased. You can't just load all your thermal clips into your assault rifle. Because they act like ammo, not like a universal cooling resource.
Pistols and shotguns in Mass Effect generally have a smaller magazine size (as in supposedly "shots fired until clip is fully heated") than assault rifles, submachine guns and machine guns. Why? Shouldn't the weapon that generates the most heat have the smallest magazine size since it heats up the thermal clip that much quicker? But full auto weapons heat up much, much faster than semi-auto or pump action ones, so pistols and shotguns should have way bigger magazin sizes than fully automatic weapons. But they don't, because they are modeled after conventional present day weapons that use ammo. Because thermal clips are meant to be ammo.
And let's not even mention the horribly stupid case of over-engineering of having a micro-fabricator that shaves shards off a massively dense ammo block whose weight is kept manageable by an integrated mass effect field, only to have the final weapon perform not much differently from a present day weapon that propels a solid metal slug through a basic chemical reaction. Despite the integrated mass effect fields, no one even came up with the idea to use that field to not only make the ammo block lighter, but also the gun itself. Why does weapon weight even still exist as a balancing factor?
The M-7 Lancer was one of the best weapons in ME3 because it adhered to the principles of ME1 where all those overengineered weapons at least had infinite ammo as an advantage. MEA needs to get off the stupid train and back to that principle.
Spectacular idea.Killroy had a great idea for an ammo system, if I remember correctly.
Guns contain two heat sinks. When one heat sink overheats, the gun cycles out that heat sink and loads the other so you can continue firing. Meanwhile, the first heat sink cools down.
It takes a lot more effort to balance the skills and requires that you sometimes restrict their functionality so they're not quite so synergistic with everything.
You may not be after the easiest or most broken setup but that's how a lot of the playerbase will take such a setup. The reality is that most people will do something in a game because it's the most efficient or effective setup rather than because it's what they enjoy the most.
From a player standpoint it's easy to shrug it off and say "You gotta take responsibility for your own entertainment", but from a developer standpoint it's something to be concerned about.
I'm sure it's possible for it to be done, but the fact that nobody has really done it in a MP game should suggest that it's an exceedingly difficult design hurdle to overcome that requires significantly more work than simply just creating pre-made kits.
It would be a very interesting thing to actually try in a game I agree but I'm not expecting it on account of how difficult of a balance hurdle it is to overcome, even in a co-op game.
Overwatch is quite different in combat style, it's multiplayer team game that is very fast based and you run around trying to shoot other players with your characters weapons that vary greatly from character to character. Mass Effect has been quite bit slower and more cover than running/jumping around trying to avoid people aiming at you (Mass Effect enemies don't really miss unlike players at Overwatch). So I don't think searching for ammo would even work for Overwatch, it would make fast combat lot slower when everyone had to bail out from fights to find ammo somewhere to continue shooting. In other hand finding ammo won't change gameplay of ME that much though it's still not something necessary either for the game and gameplay.
Killroy had a great idea for an ammo system, if I remember correctly.
Guns contain two heat sinks. When one heat sink overheats, the gun cycles out that heat sink and loads the other so you can continue firing. Meanwhile, the first heat sink cools down.
Good idea, I wouldn't mind having that.
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