23 ответов в этой теме

[Qun00]

The arguments she offers when other companions bring up the subject are actually good.

The woman that Shale once was lived centuries ago. Everything she knew, her dreams, her family and friends are all gone. What is the point in trying to be that person now?

And well, the idea of aging, getting sick and dying has little appeal.

[straykat]

Being a fleshy creature is a bonus to me at least. I like everything that goes along with it. When push comes to shove it's actually better than crushing heads.

 

If she doesn't think so, I wouldn't force her or something. I get the feeling she's more curious than she lets on though.

[ArcadiaGrey]

As a golem she spent her life at the whim of her masters, whoever owned the control rod owned her.

Now she has more freedom, but is still viewed by most as a frightening weapon, not a person.

 

So I can't fault her for wanting to be normal again.

[ThomasBlaine]

For my part, I'm not sure a sentient creature would stay sane for very long without both physical needs to ground it and a community or some kind of social structure to engage in and define itself by. Being somehow isolated from either of those things tends to result in all kinds of crazy in real life. And pigeon murder and darkspawn-slaying being her main outlets, it's pretty clear she's already lost a marble or two.

 

Assuming that becoming a dwarf again wouldn't involve even more horrible physical trauma, I would encourage her to go for it. Her current state is literally just unnatural.

[Aren]

I suggest  her to remain a golem since a stone can endure for billions of years then she can change another golem body and endure for others billions of years,she doesn't need to eat,sleep, breath,to suffer diseases and she don't age in short she has a  ridiculous amount of lifespan

When the sun of Thedas will implode for the physical laws she will still be  there while the others will be dead and forgotten.

[straykat]

 

I suggest  her to remain a golem since a stone can endure for billions of years then she can change another golem body and endure for others billions of years.She doesn't need to eat,sleep and breath and she don't age in short she has a  ridiculous amount of lifespan even when the sun of Thedas will implode for the physical laws she will still be  there.

 

 

Eating and sleeping are cool though. Among other things.

[Aren]

Eating and sleeping are cool though. Among other things.

Her crystals are more cool!

[Deadly dwarf]

Just got through "Asunder."  In it, you encounter Shale and Wynne who apparently were seeking a way to transform Shale back but with no success.

 

This makes me wonder about a number of things:  what exactly did the Anvil of the Void do?  Did it physically transform the dwarf into stone golem?  If it did, then you would think transforming a golem back to its original form would be doable.  OTOH, if the Anvil simply transfers the soul of the dwarf into a pre-made, stone golem, then you would figure the body is lost forever.  Exactly how the Anvil worked was never clear to me.  Of course, I always opted to destroy it and Branka....

 

This also makes me ponder other questions...   Aside from Shale (...and a couple of golem merchants in DA2), every golem you meet is a killing machine.  Why would that be?  When you run into evil golems, there are no other enemies present with their control rods, so what gives?  (I'm surprised freeing other golems from their control rods doesn't become Shale's big mission in life.  She might meet more souls of her generation that way...)  Also, never additional opportunities to free golems and get a Shale-like companion.

 

And what of the companion fade dreams in Broken Circle?  You would've thought we would get to see Shale as she was in the flesh rather than doing the statue thing she so hated.  (It would've been an interesting way to find out that Shale had been a woman!)  A sad, missed opportunity....

[Melbella]

This makes me wonder about a number of things:  what exactly did the Anvil of the Void do?  Did it physically transform the dwarf into stone golem?  If it did, then you would think transforming a golem back to its original form would be doable.  OTOH, if the Anvil simply transfers the soul of the dwarf into a pre-made, stone golem, then you would figure the body is lost forever.  Exactly how the Anvil worked was never clear to me.  Of course, I always opted to destroy it and Branka....

I just recently replayed this quest and it got me thinking. The place where we find the Anvil looks an awful lot like a lyrium spring (i.e. a Titan). That made me wonder if perhaps the reason the Anvil worked at all was because of where it was located, as much as what it was.

Spoiler

We know from DAI that lyrium can bring people (Leliana) back from the dead. From Caridin's journal, we learn that the dwarf was placed inside the golem shell and then molten lyrium was poured in. This process would kill the dwarf (rather painfully) but somehow they would reawaken as the golem. However, they had no free will due to the control rods, so they weren't really brought back to life, but more like reanimated. Yet the fact Shale was eventually able to remember herself, and Caridin never lost himself due to his apprentices not knowing how to make a control rod, tells me that something more than simple reanimation is possible.
 
Now I wonder how much more effective the golems might have been if they had retained their minds....
 
As for why they are usually killing machines....isn't that what they were built to do?

[Deadly dwarf]

I just recently replayed this quest and it got me thinking. The place where we find the Anvil looks an awful lot like a lyrium spring (i.e. a Titan). That made me wonder if perhaps the reason the Anvil worked at all was because of where it was located, as much as what it was.

Spoiler

We know from DAI that lyrium can bring people (Leliana) back from the dead. From Caridin's journal, we learn that the dwarf was placed inside the golem shell and then molten lyrium was poured in. This process would kill the dwarf (rather painfully) but somehow they would reawaken as the golem. However, they had no free will due to the control rods, so they weren't really brought back to life, but more like reanimated. Yet the fact Shale was eventually able to remember herself, and Caridin never lost himself due to his apprentices not knowing how to make a control rod, tells me that something more than simple reanimation is possible.
 
Now I wonder how much more effective the golems might have been if they had retained their minds....
 
As for why they are usually killing machines....isn't that what they were built to do?

 

Thanks for the info about how golem's are made from Caridin's journal; I must've missed the codex.  Just from that description, it would seem that Shale's desire to be transformed back into a dwarven woman cannot come to pass.  But then again, only the writers know what the limits of magic are in the DA universe.

 

I suppose regarding the "killing machine" comment made earlier, some of the gray areas I've been wondering about concern the control rod and the control rod operator.  Does the person with the rod appreciate that the golem is a "thinking machine?"  In Shale's case, Wilhelm knew Shale's name was Shale, so he must have spoken to the golem on occasion.  Now regarding the control rod, did Shale freeze up because no one was using the control rod after Wilhelm died?

 

But then you have the golems you run into on the way to the Anvil of the Void.  They're frozen until your team comes into the room and then they attack without anyone (Branka or darkspawn) using the control rod to command them to attack.  They were meant to kill darkspawn; one would think they wouldn't attack your team without reason. 

Spoiler

(Going back to "Assunder," the good Templar Evangeline is amazed to find Shale to be a rational being; she says something about golems being "insane.")  Also in DA2, you do get a control rod to operate one golem against several others that have gone bad.  But then that's it...   You no longer have that "good golem."  You can't talk to it, etc.

[Melbella]

I suppose regarding the "killing machine" comment made earlier, some of the gray areas I've been wondering about concern the control rod and the control rod operator.  Does the person with the rod appreciate that the golem is a "thinking machine?"  In Shale's case, Wilhelm knew Shale's name was Shale, so he must have spoken to the golem on occasion.  Now regarding the control rod, did Shale freeze up because no one was using the control rod after Wilhelm died?

That might be it. Caridin tells Shale that the golems would always go inert whenever their master died. That means it didn't have anything to do with Shale killing Wilhelm or the experiments he was doing on her; it's just something that happened. My guess is the control rod is tied to a specific person and when that person dies, the control rod "turns off" the golem until the rod can be reprogrammed to a new master. That doesn't explain why Shale's control rod didn't work anymore though. My guess is that had something to do with the experiments, or maybe the act of Shale actually killing Wilhelm fried the control circuits but not the "go inert" circuits. 

[Deadly dwarf]

That might be it. Caridin tells Shale that the golems would always go inert whenever their master died. That means it didn't have anything to do with Shale killing Wilhelm or the experiments he was doing on her; it's just something that happened. My guess is the control rod is tied to a specific person and when that person dies, the control rod "turns off" the golem until the rod can be reprogrammed to a new master. That doesn't explain why Shale's control rod didn't work anymore though. My guess is that had something to do with the experiments, or maybe the act of Shale actually killing Wilhelm fried the control circuits but not the "go inert" circuits. 

 

I've always wondered whether Shale really killed Wilhelm.  She hated him, but didn't remember killing him.  I always felt the demon trapped in the basement somehow killed Wilhelm.

[Melbella]

Yeah, that does seem more likely, I agree. It's also possible the demon somehow controlled Shale into doing it....maybe she (the demon) broke the control rod in the process?

[Xawer]

What is the point in trying to be that person now?

 

Not sure about that. She wants to be a person, not that person.

[Asha'bellanar]

And well, the idea of aging, getting sick and dying has little appeal.

To you. Probably to most people. To me, the idea of immortality is pretty horrifying. I'm not keen on the "getting sick" part, but aging isn't that bad, and I'm not afraid of dying. The fact that I will eventually die is actually quite a comforting thought. I bring myself into this just as an example of someone who is not bothered by the idea of aging and dying, and to whom "immortal and never able to die" is quite an unpleasant idea, to say the least.

 

Life begins, it happens, it ends. Perhaps Shale has been "alive" for so long she's sick of being encased in stone and wants to just rejoin the cycle of life and death.

[Deadly dwarf]

<i>Life begins, it happens, it ends. Perhaps Shale has been "alive" for so long she's sick of being encased in stone and wants to just rejoin the cycle of life and death. </i>

 

From "Asunder," I didn't get the feeling Shale wanted to die.  Encouraged by Wynne, they were looking into options to turn her back into a "fleshy creature" though Shale didn't appear particularly optimistic they would  find a way.  It's a pity Shale doesn't appear in Inquisition; it would've been interesting to see how her story finished.

[HeliosDisciple]

But then you have the golems you run into on the way to the Anvil of the Void.  They're frozen until your team comes into the room and then they attack without anyone (Branka or darkspawn) using the control rod to command them to attack.  They were meant to kill darkspawn; one would think they wouldn't attack your team without reason.

 

Maybe they're set off by the Warden's taint?

[ThomasBlaine]

Maybe they're set off by the Warden's taint?

 

That might very well be it. They were programmed and abandoned before Grey Wardens even existed, how would they know to distinguish between a Warden and a darkspawn?

[Aren]

 When you run into evil golems, there are no other enemies present with their control rods, so what gives?  (I'm surprised freeing other golems from their control rods doesn't become Shale's big mission in life.  She might meet more souls of her generation that way...)  Also, never additional opportunities to free golems and get a Shale-like companion.

 

 

Shale freedom is dependant on the crystals that were created for her,is an accidental effect,she can't free anyone since she does not know how she was freed in the first place.

 

We know from DAI that lyrium can bring people (Leliana) back from the dead.

Lyrium can't resurrect people.

Leliana of DAI was a spirit not the original one,an attempt used by Bioware to force her presence for plot reasons because they did not know that the option to kill her would have been an issue for them later.

[Aren]

Maybe they're set off by the Warden's taint?

The golems in the deep roads were controlled by Caridin and were posed to defend the passage against anyone who wanted to approach  the anvil,the warden taint has nothing to do with it.

[Asha'bellanar]

From "Asunder," I didn't get the feeling Shale wanted to die.  Encouraged by Wynne, they were looking into options to turn her back into a "fleshy creature" though Shale didn't appear particularly optimistic they would  find a way.  It's a pity Shale doesn't appear in Inquisition; it would've been interesting to see how her story finished.

I was actually addressing the notion that immortality is automatically preferable to morality, but I'm sure both Shale and Wynne are aware that "fleshy creatures" eventually die.

[ThomasBlaine]

The golems in the deep roads were controlled by Caridin and were posed to defend the passage against anyone who wanted to approach  the anvil,the warden taint has nothing to do with it.

 

Plenty of hostile golems are found nowhere near the Anvil, and wouldn't have been influenced by Caridin's change of heart at all.

[thats1evildude]

It's a pretty lonely existence. Shale can only hold on to so many decades of memories at a time, so she will inevitably forget the friends she has made, the people she has known, etc. And she can't really enjoy anything except crushing heads and stomping pigeons.

[Ghost Gal]

The two things I love best in this world are eating and sleeping. As a golem, she can't do either. I'd become mortal again just to be able to eat ice cream and candy and sleep on a nice, warm, soft bed.

 

Remember too that Shale can't sleep. She's always fully awake and conscious; that included the millennia she was trapped underground in the dark, completely frozen but unable to sleep (even the poor little ancient elven soul stuck in the little blood vial could sleep to pass the time as it was trapped there for eternity; Shale can't sleep); and now when/if she joins your party she can't sleep when the rest of the party is asleep, so she has to count people's breathes to pass the time in order to keep herself from crushing their faces to a bloody pulp out of boredom and annoyance.

 

Personally, that sounds like hell to me. I get squirrely if I go 18 hours without sleep; centuries without a wink of shut-eye just seems awful to me. I'd become mortal just to sleep again.