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[Lunatica]

A spirit can become a mortal  Cole is the most tangible example beyond the words spoken by Felassans.

The reversal is possible or being a mortal is permanent?

[Taki17]

Cole does not become a mortal, technically he is still a spirit in human form, but by becoming "more human", he'll be less one-dimensional and is able to learn from experience, and grow as a person.

 

I guess the closest thing of a mortal becoming a spirit is what happened to the original apostate mage Cole and the Divine. Both were approached by benevolent spirits who remained with them in their last hours, and after their death, they took up their persona had all of their memories and personality.

[Secret Rare]

The Baroness was a Blood Mage who rejuvenated her age through human sacrifice and possibly augmented her powers with a dead/imprisoned dragon. She was killed by her subjects, but before she died (her mansion was burned down) she pulled the souls of her subjects into the Fade with her, creating a dream village. It is unclear if she was possessed by the demon of Pride before she died or if her disembodied spirit in the Fade became a spirit of Pride over time.

[dawnstone]

It is heavily implied in Trespasser, I think, that the ancient elves all started out as spirits, and similar to Cole, took bodies and thus "manifested outside the Fade", and became familiar with Form:

 

Vir Dirthara: The Deepest Fade

Spoiler

The pages of this book—memory?—are instructions on how to reach the deepest parts of the Fade, realms so far removed they're unmarked by Dreamers:

"Epiphany requires a mind smooth as mirror glass, still as stone. Put aside ten years for practice, and the next hundred for searching. What others have learned will ease your journey. Those who never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots, but it is rare the compulsion overtakes our brethren of the air."

 

Cole has some comments regarding spirits taking bodies as well:

 

They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget.

 

He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face.

 

It may be that Uthenera was developed, because once embodied, most elves could not simply cast off their bodies and return to the Fade in one piece, or remain as their fully developed selves. Thus, once they got tired of living on the earth, using the Uthenera process, they could traverse the Fade spiritually; as long as their body could be sustained, they'd be able to come back to it, something which Solas ultimately seems to have done (if we go by the timeline of when elves started noticing they aged/the Veil was raised, that was some 3700 years ago. He may have slept for a long time.).

 

There is the matter of the Forbidden Ones however, who seem to have been able to cast off their bodies:

 

Vir Dirthara: Exile of the Forbidden Ones

(Bolded mine):

Spoiler

The pages of this book—memory?—show the blazing forms of the Evanuris banishing a howling spirit from the reaches of the Fade that touch their lands. A voice rings out, stern and imperial:

"For abandoning the People in their time of greatest need, for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach, we declare Xebenkeck and others of her ilk exiled from the lands of the Evanuris. Beware! Their familiarity with shape allows them to travel paths unaided. They may be bound, but only the protection of your gods will fully shield you from their malice. They are Forbidden from the Earth that is our right."

 

So, it may be that it can go either way, but it would require an extremely powerful spirit/magical being.

[Sah291]

I think so. Or rather, mortals probably already are/have spirits, but they are cut off from them because of the veil, and also because spirits aren't trusted in general, except for some mages and Seekers and the few that work with them.

I think that's what Solas means when he says stuff like Sera is "apart from herself". He also refers to the Inquisitor's "spirit". Why would he do that if he/she didn't have one?

[Lunatica]

 

It may be that Uthenera was developed, because once embodied, most elves could not simply cast off their bodies and return to the Fade in one piece, or remain as their fully developed selves. Thus, once they got tired of living on the earth, using the Uthenera process, they could traverse the Fade spiritually; as long as their body could be sustained, they'd be able to come back to it, something which Solas ultimately seems to have done (if we go by the timeline of when elves started noticing they aged/the Veil was raised, that was some 3700 years ago. He may have slept for a long time.).

 

 

Uthenera was the only way for their souls to reach the fade then,since in order to return spirit one has to lost a great deal of the own self.

[Gervaise]

The warning from the Evanuris about Fen'Harel also talks of how he "knows much of the People and their spirits".    This specifically seems to link the elves with personal spirits.   It is possible they are just familiar spirits like the one giving the lecture on magic or like the spirit that saves Wynne but it could be something more and the reason that the elves lost their immortality with the raising of the Veil because they were cut off from their spirit, or alternatively their spirit was cut off from the Fade, so Uthenera was the only way of making contact.

 

No one really knows what happens to people after they die.   The Chantry and the Dalish believe they pass through the Fade to somewhere else, yet spirits inhabit the Fade and Solas' friend returns there.   He also says that whilst the essence of wisdom will be retained and regrow, the personality and memories of his friend will be lost, so it is entirely possible that many of the spirits encountered in the Fade were released from their mortal shell on Thedas on death but simply don't remember their former life.

 

When Felassan is preparing to enter the Fade to confront Fen'Harel it says that he "calmed his breathing until he found his true self inside the shell of his flesh", which sounds suspiciously like he is a spirit clothed in flesh (a more material version of Cole).    Presumably when Fen'Harel kills him, his spirit returns to the Fade but has no memory of his former life.

 

Yavana succeeded in calling back the spirit of a recently dead mortal from the Fade in order to interrogate it.    So it would seem that a mortal can become a spirit, whether they began as such or were born in the normal way, but it only usually happens on death.    Mind you, I thought at the end of Trespasser that a spirit Cole returns to the Fade, with the promise to return when needed, so presumably he shed his "body" until such time as he returned.  

[Lunatica]

 

Yavana succeeded in calling back the spirit of a recently dead mortal from the Fade in order to interrogate it.

She also threatened to destroy that spirit/soul so it seem that spirits  can be destroyed.

Anyway if their mind is reset in the fade that isn't a big of a difference.

[Big I]

The Baroness was a Blood Mage who rejuvenated her age through human sacrifice and possibly augmented her powers with a dead/imprisoned dragon. She was killed by her subjects, but before she died (her mansion was burned down) she pulled the souls of her subjects into the Fade with her, creating a dream village. It is unclear if she was possessed by the demon of Pride before she died or if her disembodied spirit in the Fade became a spirit of Pride over time.

 

I would interpret the events of DA:A to mean the Baroness was a mage who became a demon. In addition to the Baroness the main villain of Legend of the Seeker (the Cassandra anime movie) was a blood mage who transformed into a Pride demon. Movie events are definitely canon, since Cassandra talks about them and you can find one of the side characters (the girl who can talk to dragons) talking to Giselle at Haven (they made her Tranquil).

[PsychoBlonde]

 

A spirit can become a mortal  Cole is the most tangible example beyond the words spoken by Felassans.

The reversal is possible or being a mortal is permanent?

 

 

From the way things sound viz. the spirits of the Fade, becoming a person IS the transcendent act, so why would you WANT to reverse it?

[Mistic]

Movie events are definitely canon, since Cassandra talks about them and you can find one of the side characters (the girl who can talk to dragons) talking to Giselle at Haven (they made her Tranquil).

 

Oh, f***, I never realized that. So that Tranquil in Haven was the little Avexis from the film? Now I can't look back at Dawn of the Seeker with the same eyes. Especially after knowing how much the Seekers themselves kept hidden about Tranquility.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I would interpret the events of DA:A to mean the Baroness was a mage who became a demon. In addition to the Baroness the main villain of Legend of the Seeker (the Cassandra anime movie) was a blood mage who transformed into a Pride demon. Movie events are definitely canon, since Cassandra talks about them and you can find one of the side characters (the girl who can talk to dragons) talking to Giselle at Haven (they made her Tranquil).

Huh. I'd assumed that the Tranquil you meet at Haven had some sort of disorder that caused hallucinations involving dragons, and that Tranquility (which removes emotions) either cured it or made it bearable.

 

Edit: Also, I think Justice's words on what's happening with the Baroness (which are the main evidence we have on what actually happened there) are at least as consistent with the interpretation that a demon became the Baroness rather than the other way around. Not to mention that that explains why the Baroness didn't know she could cross the Veil the way she did despite the fact that the actual Baroness knew she was able to cross the Veil and probably knew you could draw spirits across it.

[Aren]

From the way things sound viz. the spirits of the Fade, becoming a person IS the transcendent act, so why would you WANT to reverse it?

For the same reasons Solas encourage Cole to remain a spirit i guess.

[Heimdall]

Oh, f***, I never realized that. So that Tranquil in Haven was the little Avexis from the film? Now I can't look back at Dawn of the Seeker with the same eyes. Especially after knowing how much the Seekers themselves kept hidden about Tranquility.

I think Weekes might have confirmed it?

I'd always assumed that tranquil just had some mental disorder that cause hallucinations/delusions, but now I can't look at that movie or listen to that conversation in Haven the same way anymore...

[Navasha]

Transcend implies improvement.   I don't think becoming a spirit would really be an improvement in my opinion.   Spirits are pretty one-dimensional representations.   Would you want to limit yourself to a single concept or emotion?    Nope, not for me.  

[Xerrai]

In thoery all people are capable of 'transcending' into spirits. It's just that only occures when someones dies, where thier spirit passes through the fade and thence to somewhere else.

 

But a living person transforiming into a spirit? The only possible things that comes close is the case of the Forbidden Ones, if the codex entry in Vir Dirthara is to interpreted as such. They apparently shed physical form in order to retreat into the fade.

 

But i'm not sure if it would apply in modern day Thedas. But I do know that Cole hinted that Cassandra may be something related to what you describe. May not even be close to a human-going-spirit (Cassandra has no spirit-y qualities that I know of) but it may be related.

 

Cole: Oh. That makes more sense.

Cassandra: Why do you look at me when you say that?

Cole: You found faith, not just a feeling. A spirit.

Cassandra: We do not need to speak of this further

Cole: I'm a spirit that touched a body. You're a body that touched a spirit. The spirit came because of your faith. We're the same, but backwards!

Cassandra: Please stop.

[Aren]

Transcend implies improvement.   I don't think becoming a spirit would really be an improvement in my opinion.   Spirits are pretty one-dimensional representations.   Would you want to limit yourself to a single concept or emotion?    Nope, not for me.  

Spirits of choices aren't one dimensional unless you see Ishmael and co. as one dimensional..

[Lunatica]

Transcend implies improvement.   I don't think becoming a spirit would really be an improvement in my opinion.   Spirits are pretty one-dimensional representations.   Would you want to limit yourself to a single concept or emotion?    Nope, not for me.  

I think that  a mortal who desire to become a spirit is a spirit of choice not a regular spirit.

[Mistic]

Spirits of choices aren't one dimensional unless you see Ishmael and co. as one dimensional..

 

A psychopath who loves to troll people and make them suffer? Not the most developed character, if you ask me. That he's more sophisticated about it doesn't mean he doesn't have only one driving trait. Not very different from the other talkative desire, sloth and pride demons we have encountered.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Transcend implies improvement.   I don't think becoming a spirit would really be an improvement in my opinion.   Spirits are pretty one-dimensional representations.   Would you want to limit yourself to a single concept or emotion?    Nope, not for me.  

 

This. Also, I find the notion of existing forever rather unappealing. I mean, no matter how good it is, if you live forever somewhere, at some point you are going to get bored of it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This. Also, I find the notion of existing forever rather unappealing. I mean, no matter how good it is, if you live forever somewhere, at some point you are going to get bored of it.

That's what hobbies are for.

[Aren]

A psychopath who loves to troll people and make them suffer? Not the most developed character, if you ask me. That he's more sophisticated about it doesn't mean he doesn't have only one driving trait. Not very different from the other talkative desire, sloth and pride demons we have encountered.

That's his personality that doesn't mean that a spirit of choice is unidimensional.